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3020 Starter Problems

Thread: 3020 Starter Problems

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  1. BrotherJoe said:

    3020 Starter Problems

    Hi All,

    I've got a 3020D still running the 24V system. This spring I had the starter rebuilt (it was cranking slowly, and ended up needing a new armature--it was cooked); upon putting it back on I found that sometimes it would not engage... but after a few tries would. I lived with it for the summer, but, very occassionally it would stick "on", but disengaged and not cranking the motor. This past weeknd it got worse--yet I found if I knocked on the solenoid with a wrench, it'd stop spinning--but often it would continue to spin after I started the tractor so I'd have to listen for it and give it a few whacks.

    I finally had time to take it down to the guy that rebuilt it, nice local guy that's familar with the 24V's and has rebuilt lots of these.

    On the bench it was fine, but, he felt bad I had to pull it and puled the solenoid apart; put a new disc in the solenoid, and put a new pin/keeper in the fork (the other was a bit worn). I got home, put it on.. same exact issue; only now I can't seem to git it to disengage with a whack, I had to unhook the neg battery cable.

    To be clear:

    Battery connected, key on, button push; ~75% of the time, starter won't engage to crank engine. 100% of the time once I push the starter button, it seems to just runaway. ~50% of the time if it engages and cranks the engine, the starter continues spinning until I unhook the battery again. If I hook the battery back up, no problems, the starter stays off until I attempt another start of the engine.

    I saw a recent thread on a 3010 12V that was staying constantly engaged with battery connected, this is not the same symptom as me-and it appears that poster found a wiring fault at the circuit breaker?

    Ideas on this one? I've heard that with low cranking voltage the solenoid will arc and weld itself--but I don't know how that jives with it not engaging to crank the engine. Given how it's behaving, it's almost impossible to do a voltage drop test without burning up the starter because it somebody has to be ready to unhook it.

    EDIT:

    I did some more quick probing around.

    1) if I take the starter button out of the picture and just jump the terminals with wire, same behavior.
    2) I probed the yellow starter button wire and can't find that its inadvertently grounded--probed through the neut safety switch back to S terminal.
    3) What voltages should i be seeing with everything off?

    Between G lug on solenoid and the S lug on solenoid, I see 25+ V, with everything off. Same between G and the 2 lugs on back of starter joined by copper strap.

    It's hard to check cranking because I have to reach down and unhook the negative from the battery to get the starter to stop spinning; but it's over 24V.

    Thanks all!

    Joe
    Last edited by BrotherJoe; Yesterday at 08:25 PM.
     
  2. theduke's Avatar

    theduke said:
    I'm guessing you have the "floating ground" system?

    one battery positive ground and the other negative ground.. dosen't all that mess meet at the starter?


    Ran accross some talk about starter issues in the 4020's...and I remember Dad putting a few in His.

    I assume they are similar to yours. There is some terminal "block" near the key switch thats caused problems iirc.

    Wish I could help more..
    Dan


    JD 955 ,70A loader, 60" mmm , Original I-match ,4' woods B hog , 5' Box blade , 12' orchard plane/driveway grader ,various other doo-dads & homebuilt implements. Goossen BFBlower, JakeRake..this thing is different.
    Kubota U-15
    Kubota RTV 900
     
  3. Tx Jim said:
    BrotherJoe
    Yes low battery voltage can cause washer inside solenoid cap to stick to terminals causing starter to remain engaged after push button is released. Having experience of serving as a JD dealer service manager for 13 yrs with a lot of time spent diagnosing quirky JD 24 volt electrical systems my advice to you is you'll be money ahead if you'll convert the 24 volt system to a 12 volt system. Or you can continue to do this 12 volt starters built today are more powerful that 12 volt starters built 50 yrs ago. Also I'll add 24 volt starters converted to 12 volts are NOT as powerful as new 12 volt starters.

    Does your tractor have 2 circuit breakers mounted on starter attached to wiring harness to help limit electrical fires? I've seen several JD tractors with 24 volt systems have electrical created fires
    Last edited by Tx Jim; Today at 12:00 PM.
     
  4. jd110 said:
    I know you said the guy that fixed the starter is familiar with the 24 volt starters, but from what you are saying, it sounds as if it still has a problem. Not sure where he gets his parts, but maybe a defective part has been installed. When starter spins without engaging, it may be the clutch in the drive gear is slipping. I have seen some 24 volt starters that have had a 12 volt solenoid installed that acted crazy but I don't remember exactly what they did. Does the solenoid have 24v marked on it? Do you know anyone that has a 24 volt tractor that would be willing to let you borrow his starter? If not, I would try to get a second opinion on your starter or buy a JD reman starter.
    Last edited by jd110; Today at 07:00 PM.
     
  5. CADplans said:
    I have "another color" tractor that has a similar starter,
    the starter was "rebuilt" just before I purchased the tractor (the tractor was 20 years old at the time)

    Well,, after dealing with the no crank for a month or two, I went to a parts place that stocked the OEM Bosch solenoid,,

    The parts guy said I was crazy, buying the Bosch for over $100, when I could get the cheap import for $39.

    Well, when I got home with the Bosch, I found I had the $$cheapo on it that was not working,,

    I cleaned all the connections, installed the Bosch, and the tractor has been starting for 20 years,,,
    Some of the tractors include JD 4105, JD 855, JD 650,,,, and,,, the IH 584 4WD
    My favorite attachment is the homemade landplane,,, EVERYONE needs one of those!!