What would you do to avoid a Possible code violation.
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    What would you do to avoid a Possible code violation.

    Here's my situation. I have a plan for a small main tractor barn with two add on side sheds. The main barn area is 18'x24'feet. Along side of the main there will be a 12'wide x 24' long add on shed on either side. The sheds will be full enclosed & have a shed roof from the main building to the exterior wall of the shed. So, inside the barn this gives me a nice open area of 24' x 42 feet in total space. Am I making sense so far.

    Now, I have a set of plans for this which was drawn up by a licensed architect. His plan calls for 6"x6" posts set six feet apart. Except for the gable wall end openings where the posts are set to accommodate a 10' door opening. It makes sense so far.

    Now I go & look up the 2012 IRC codes. Code R106 states that posts can span no greater than 8'feet apart. The code gives no other information for this restriction.

    Here's the problem: On the main building, I would like to span 12' apart on the 24 foot dimension. This would let me build with only on center post on either side of the 24foot run. That gives me a nice open space for work & tractor moving. But since I see the code stops at 8 feet, I do not want to get into trouble with the inspector. I have a permit to build. I've already had my post footing inspection done & because there will be no CO issued, I need only one more inspection which will be framing when structure is in the dry.

    I am anticipating I could have a code problem? I've asked all sorts of people out here, from architects, to professors at Clemson University. No one will give me a straight forward answer & the reason is probably one of liability. Yes I could build this thing on 8 foot spans & just drive more carefully.

    My last resort. I hate to get involved with the building dept., but I sent an email to the Building Dept. mgr. & asked the span limitation question in general terms. I don't think I will get an answer, or I might be told to come in for a plan review, which I get to pay for & maybe get told I can't go over 8 feet.

    If I can have a post & beam wall with a clear opening in it for a 10 foot wide slider door, then why can't I have a 12 foot span inside the building. Makes no sense at all. Sometimes these codes are written in a way that appear to be in conflict with the general thinking behind it. And lastly, if I do use a 12 foot span & the building fails the final framing inspection, does it really matter to me. I'm not asking for a CO even though my tractor will be sleeping in there. How does failing the inspection affect me or the status of my property? Has anyone any information on that situation.

    If you care to comment, I'm listening. Now don't go poking fun at me here. I'm old, I'm tired & I want to get this barn up before I hit 90.
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    johnH123's Avatar
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    just use a bigger posts?

    glad to see you back, btw
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    The gable end wall where your door opening is theoretically has no load in it as your trusses or shed roof rafters are carrying the roof load over it and transferring that tributary load to the wall ( posts and header). In order to make sure you can carry the truss load on what I will call the interior wall your architect should check the header design to accommodate the 12' post spacing to be on the safe side. With that info not knowing your location, either submit for a permit modification or have the "redesign" available when you get your framing inspection when he asks where the other half of your posts are you are armed with the proper "stamped" documentation.

    Note that by spreading that load further it may require a more robust footer under those interior posts and some bracing from the header to the post to resist torsional rotation... All depending on your snow / wind loads.
    Last edited by JD322; 06-01-2016 at 03:27 PM.
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    tj1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog View Post
    Here's my situation. I have a plan for a small main tractor barn with two add on side sheds. The main barn area is 18'x24'feet. Along side of the main there will be a 12'wide x 24' long add on shed on either side. The sheds will be full enclosed & have a shed roof from the main building to the exterior wall of the shed. So, inside the barn this gives me a nice open area of 24' x 42 feet in total space. Am I making sense so far.

    Now, I have a set of plans for this which was drawn up by a licensed architect. His plan calls for 6"x6" posts set six feet apart. Except for the gable wall end openings where the posts are set to accommodate a 10' door opening. It makes sense so far.

    Now I go & look up the 2012 IRC codes. Code R106 states that posts can span no greater than 8'feet apart. The code gives no other information for this restriction.

    Here's the problem: On the main building, I would like to span 12' apart on the 24 foot dimension. This would let me build with only on center post on either side of the 24foot run. That gives me a nice open space for work & tractor moving. But since I see the code stops at 8 feet, I do not want to get into trouble with the inspector. I have a permit to build. I've already had my post footing inspection done & because there will be no CO issued, I need only one more inspection which will be framing when structure is in the dry.

    I am anticipating I could have a code problem? I've asked all sorts of people out here, from architects, to professors at Clemson University. No one will give me a straight forward answer & the reason is probably one of liability. Yes I could build this thing on 8 foot spans & just drive more carefully.

    My last resort. I hate to get involved with the building dept., but I sent an email to the Building Dept. mgr. & asked the span limitation question in general terms. I don't think I will get an answer, or I might be told to come in for a plan review, which I get to pay for & maybe get told I can't go over 8 feet.

    If I can have a post & beam wall with a clear opening in it for a 10 foot wide slider door, then why can't I have a 12 foot span inside the building. Makes no sense at all. Sometimes these codes are written in a way that appear to be in conflict with the general thinking behind it. And lastly, if I do use a 12 foot span & the building fails the final framing inspection, does it really matter to me. I'm not asking for a CO even though my tractor will be sleeping in there. How does failing the inspection affect me or the status of my property? Has anyone any information on that situation.

    If you care to comment, I'm listening. Now don't go poking fun at me here. I'm old, I'm tired & I want to get this barn up before I hit 90.
    That span you want inside, is there a beam above? What is attached to the tops of the 6X6 posts? I can help you if you answer the question.. I just don't understand what may be above the span.. By the way a gable end has no bearing weight, the rafter thrust is on the other two sides. I will say this; any registered architect can design anything within his or her principle and stamp the plan, most inspectors including myself would accept that stamp. Going into the IRC if you are not familiar with the tables etc. can be very confusing unless you use it regularly. Jeff
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    Boy. At first I read this and had a real long response written up with backing facts basically saying "go for it".

    After re-reading I think I misunderstood the intent need to change my position.

    If you are talking about removing 2 of the posts on the 24 foot dimension to only have the two end posts and one in the center then you need to have the building redesigned. Like John said it will need bigger posts... and bigger beams etc. This would also require different footings.

    I hate to say it, but I'd build it as designed, or have it redesigned and redo your posts and footings if you want it to last.


    I see some of our resident experts have posted above.... Both of them are right and will be of great help.
    Last edited by mn1025rfilb; 06-01-2016 at 03:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog View Post
    Now I go & look up the 2012 IRC codes. Code R106 states that posts can span no greater than 8'feet apart. The code gives no other information for this restriction.

    Hmmm... Section R106 of the 2012 IRC covers submission of planning/engineering documents and doesn't mention anything about posts or spans.

    The IRC is for 1- and 2-story residential buildings. You are building a barn, no? Does SC apply the same standards for a barn as it does for occupied dwellings?
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnH123 View Post
    just use a bigger posts?

    glad to see you back, btw
    Thank you! I've been around but mostly reading threads & lurking. I've been wrestling with my storage barn project & the veggie garden.

    Bigger post could possibly be an answer, but it's really not about the posts. It is a function of what you use between the posts as top girders. The lumber you put across the span like 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's doubled, etc. & how you actually attach them to the posts is generally the make or break deal. Problem I think is if you exceed a building code, it's not an issue as long as you can prove what your doing is safe & that proof must be done with building calculations & design criteria, none of which I can do. If you give me the plans, I can build it. I just can't engineer it. Thanks for replying. Appreciate it.

    P.S. I've stayed off the political forum for some time now. I'm saving money on blood pressure meds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD322 View Post
    The gable end wall where your door opening is theoretically has no load in it as your trusses or shed roof rafters are carrying the roof load over it and transferring that tributary load to the wall ( posts and header). In order to make sure you can carry the truss load on what I will call the interior wall your architect should check the header design to accommodate the 12' post spacing to be on the safe side. With that info not knowing your location, either submit for a permit modification or have the "redesign" available when you get your framing inspection when he asks where the other half of your posts are you are armed with the proper "stamped" documentation.

    Note that by spreading that load further it may require a more robust footer under those interior posts and some bracing from the header to the post to resist torsional rotation... All depending on your snow / wind loads.
    Yes Sir. I started thinking about the gable ends AFTER I posted my thread. Came to the same conclusion. Gable end has no load in theory, or a lot less load than the other walls.

    Your second point- I purchased these plans from an architect. I've contacted him & he had to back off because, it would take a re calculation & possible redesign of joists, girder sizes, etc. And since the plans only cost me about $40. bucks, I don't think he has the incentive to do it. I'm in South Carolina. A major snow event where I am, could possibly happen. But if it does it would be on the night of February 6th @ 3 a.m. & unload a full 1 inch which would be a blizzard but it would be off the roof & gone by 10 a.m.


    I'm currently trying to find out what the building dept. actually need from me, if anything regarding this build. I really don't know how fussy they will be out here in the sticks. The closest county inspector is 35 mile away. And what's funny is that the inspector that approved my footings was sent in here from the neighboring county which is even further out. Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog View Post

    P.S. I've stayed off the political forum for some time now. I'm saving money on blood pressure meds.
    Yeah i'm staying off as well. Seems like it helps everyone!
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    Since you already had your footing inspection, where were your footings placed, 6 foot or 12 foot?

    I'm guessing a span of 12 foot will probably require larger footings, larger posts, and LVL's to support the load.
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