New shop build 30x60x10
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    jenkinsph's Avatar
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    New shop build 30x60x10

    Had a chance today to get back with a concrete finisher I know and the engineering firm called to say the foundation plans are ready.

    Should be about ready to get this puppy built.

    I have a 304010 building that I intended to erect last year just couldn't find the time. I decided it was probably cheaper to have someone else form and pour the slab. After getting the contractors price today we are moving on with it. Right now I am trying to get the metal building engineer who stamped the plans to approve adding a middle bay, that way I would have 30x60.

    I am looking for suggestions in lots of areas, floor finish for example I am thinking an epoxy coated floor in light tan or light grey, thinking a 300 amp electric service, thinking about having an exterior paint and fuel locker, air compressor, vacuum system and genset in exterior closet. Lighting, I need some suggestions here, never liked a dim shop. Will install a Clopay insulated sectional door 12wX10ht.

    What suggestions do you guys have?

    Later I plan to add a second parking shed about 24x72 with a gravel floor it has to wait till I have more funds.
    Steve,


    4520, 110tlb, 820, X749
    Enough attachments. Why don't I realize this?

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    Brian's Avatar
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    If you need samples on anything that you are interested in putting in construction wise, PM me, I will get them sent to you.



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    jenkinsph's Avatar
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    Thanks Brian, I appreciate the help.
    Steve,


    4520, 110tlb, 820, X749
    Enough attachments. Why don't I realize this?

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenkinsph View Post
    Had a chance today to get back with a concrete finisher I know and the engineering firm called to say the foundation plans are ready.

    Should be about ready to get this puppy built.

    I have a 304010 building that I intended to erect last year just couldn't find the time. I decided it was probably cheaper to have someone else form and pour the slab. After getting the contractors price today we are moving on with it. Right now I am trying to get the metal building engineer who stamped the plans to approve adding a middle bay, that way I would have 30x60.

    I am looking for suggestions in lots of areas, floor finish for example I am thinking an epoxy coated floor in light tan or light grey, thinking a 300 amp electric service, thinking about having an exterior paint and fuel locker, air compressor, vacuum system and genset in exterior closet. Lighting, I need some suggestions here, never liked a dim shop. Will install a Clopay insulated sectional door 12wX10ht.

    What suggestions do you guys have?

    Later I plan to add a second parking shed about 24x72 with a gravel floor it has to wait till I have more funds.
    Take a look in my Picasa web album linked in my signature, I have 4 or so folders of my pole barn build.

    Key points:

    Floor: You have time to think on that-the concrete will need to cure quite a while before you can paint it.

    EL: 300 amp service is a oddball number-at least around here. 200 or 400 is standard. I have a 400A service in my house mainly for breaker capacity, I have 2 42-space 200A CH panels. My barn is feed with a 100A subpanel from the house. I can't see where you would need more than 200A in a outbuilding.

    Lighting: The new T5 HO florescent lights are simply incredible. The bulbs are only about 3/4" in diameter but they put out a massive amount of light.
    Kenny

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    jenkinsph's Avatar
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    Kenny,
    You are right about the 300A panel but I have had this NOS sitting for over three years and no one to sell it to.

    I will check on the T5 HO lights thanks for the lead.

    Lots of good pics in your albums I will review them again.
    Steve,


    4520, 110tlb, 820, X749
    Enough attachments. Why don't I realize this?

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    RandyM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyd View Post
    EL: 300 amp service is a oddball number-at least around here. 200 or 400 is standard. I have a 400A service in my house mainly for breaker capacity, I have 2 42-space 200A CH panels. My barn is feed with a 100A subpanel from the house. I can't see where you would need more than 200A in a outbuilding.
    Sorry Kenny, my feeling is more is better on this one. Even if you never use it, it will always be there if ever you decide you need it. It really comes down to intended use of the building. Mostly storage, small panel, if it is a work shop, bigger is better. You start adding lights, air compressors, lifts, machine tools, welders, furnace, air conditioner, well, ect.. And never say never!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenkinsph View Post
    You are right about the 300A panel but I have had this NOS sitting for over three years and no one to sell it to.
    Stupid Question Alert... I'm no electrician, so please take it easy on me...

    Why could'nt you use your "in stock" 300A panel and just wire it up 200A? I would think if you had a 200A Main breaker in it, it wouldnt be a problem?

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    jenkinsph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudland_Dave View Post
    Stupid Question Alert... I'm no electrician, so please take it easy on me...

    Why could'nt you use your "in stock" 300A panel and just wire it up 200A? I would think if you had a 200A Main breaker in it, it wouldnt be a problem?

    I could do that but I already have a 300A main breaker in it. The key to all of this electrical is it is all here, and all paid for. I may need a few incidental items but have 95% of the things I need. I also have 400A switch gear, 12x12x48 gutter tray, 4" ridgid conduit, 350mcm wire, 3/0 wire and many other items left over from doing gov't jobs, wish I had the money instead. I recently sold off an 800A three phase setup and was grateful to turn this into cash. Going back a few years I over purchased mechanical and electrical inventory now I am cash poor and inventory rich, I am trying to work thru it.
    Steve,


    4520, 110tlb, 820, X749
    Enough attachments. Why don't I realize this?

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    eepete's Avatar
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    Check out the prices of 200A panels at the box stores, they are around $200 last time I checked. I use Square D QO, the boxes came with 12 20 amp breakers. A 400 amp meter base is set up to have 2 sets of wires coming from it, usually they go to two 200 amp panels.

    Basing your entire electrical system around an odd ball panel you have is like buying a tractor based solely on on oddball implement you have.

    When you come off of your 400 amp meter base, make one panel go directly and take the other through a 200 amp transfer switch (such as an Asco brand switch). Now you can choose which circuits are backed up and which are not, and that will let you save money and avoid mistakes when you get your generator.

    If you want it all backed up and will be careful with your usage, then just put everything on a 400 amp transfer switch. Check with an electrician, because you might have higher cost that way since you'll need a 400 amp disconnect and then have to put your panels above a tray, all of which cost more $$s.

    Here is a picture of the 400 amp meter based with it's two lugs for the "output" to the house.

    In my house, I came in off the meter base and then into the basement underneath the garage. Once you have more than 2' of wire from the meter base, if you're not in your breaker panels you have to have a disconnect (this is a "check with electrician" thing). So I had to have a 400 amp disconnect ($1800 !), then I had a panel before the generator (to the left of the disconnect). This has the resistive electric backup for the heat pumps, shedding 80 amps off the generator load. The generator, since it was remote to the switchgear, also had to have a 200 amp disconnect on it ("only" $400). Then there is the transfer switch. You can see this in the next shot, along with the inside of the transfer switch. Note that there is only one set of lugs on the transfer switch.

    So, I then had to put the breaker boxes over a tray ("only" $400) to splice the feed from the transfer switch, see pictures. The plus is the breakers are semi-central to the house, the minus is a _lot_ of expensive 400 amp cable (about $3500 worth). The cost of the 400 amp cable, the 200 amp generator cable (100' run) the disconnects, the transfer switch, the tray, and the breaker boxes was about $9K (I'm complaining not bragging).

    The key concept here is that what you see the most of is what is cheapest- the meter is on the opposite side of the wall from the single breaker box, no disconnect needed. You can do two 200 amp panels on the opposite side of the meter base and get away with it. As soon as you start to move things around or put in generators and transfer switches, the cost of the world goes up. You might able to get a 200 amp panel and 200 amp xfer switch right behind the meter base and avoid a lot of costs. But you might need a 200 amp disconnect before the xfer switch (so you can work on it and have it fused correctly), check with electrician. If you do the whole building 400 amp service on the xfer swtich, you might want the cost of 60 feet of 200 amp cables to put the other breaker box on the other side of the building. You get the idea- plan it as a system and not just the amperage and consult with someone to trade off cost vs. features.

    Pete
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 400a_meter_box.jpg   disconnects.jpg   xfer_x_400A.jpg   breaker_boxes.jpg   gen_disconnect_xferx.jpg  

    main_disconnect.jpg   pulling_wires.jpg  
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    jenkinsph's Avatar
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    Pete,
    That is a nice setup you have built up. Great to utilize with your own solar setup.

    For my endeavor getting the first shop up, then adding a parking shed should wind up my wish list. I plan to have a much simpler setup without provisions for emergency backup. Most of my generators are moblile units and we have very few instances where we lose power. I suspect that because of the lower humidity levels we experience here we are saved from the icing that causes so many problems in the winters in your locale.

    I think the only thing I will need more of is some 1/2" emt, just about everything else is there.
    Steve,


    4520, 110tlb, 820, X749
    Enough attachments. Why don't I realize this?

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