JD 110 TLB hydro oil overheating
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Thread: JD 110 TLB hydro oil overheating

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    JD 110 TLB hydro oil overheating

    Hello All, This is my first post on the site and I believe I am in the right category if not could someone please let me know. Well to start off I have a JD 110 TLB at work and recently it came back that the engine coolant was over heating. So I checked it out sure enough very little coolant in the tanks. The Loader has a cab on it with A/C and Heat. Took that apart and found the leak for the coolant up there in the mechanical valve for the heater. The loader has not been taken care of very well in the last 4 or 5 years we've had it to say the least. It is used for loading trucks up with salt in the winter time so the oil cooler and coolant radiator were very clogged and rusted. I decided to replace them both and change out the hoses for the rad as well as thermostat and hydro/tranny oil and filters.

    So I finally got the parts for it all and went to work. Took off the front grill and sides then removed the oil cooler and radiator after draining them both of fluids. then went to work to try and get the hydro filters off..... long story short they were not coming off. The smaller filter would finally spin but not come off figured the moisture/salt probably got to the threads and trashed them. Tried getting the suction side filter off and no dice. So I decided to get new oil filter heads for them. Ordered the heads and o-rings and all then finally came in and put them on yesterday. I got everything put together and filled up the coolant and hydro fluid back up today.

    All seemed well after filling everything up checked for leaks and couldn't find anything severe. Only thing that is possibly leaking is a very small wet spot on one of the 2 pumps on the left side of the loader. They were both covered in dirty oil that had been there for a while prior to this, but I believe a hose blew on it that may have caused all of that. Obviously not ruling that out as not a problem but didn't seem to actually be leaking anywhere I could see. Also noticed a little bit of oil on the flexible hose coming from the smaller filter to what looked like into the tranny. Also don't think it was leaking just residual from taking it all apart to put the new oil filter heads on. So I cycled all the lines to make sure everything was working and there were no problems. The engine was also running cool with the new rad and fresh coolant.

    After all of that I finally got everything back together thinking it was good. The machine ran for a while and had a guy drive it for a little spin and the temps were fine. So I figured all was well but told him to keep an eye on it and don't be to rough on it just yet to be sure. After about maybe 45 mins or so of use he was moving skids of sod around and he let me know the hydraulic temp was getting high. I checked it and it wasn't overheating exactly but it was getting fairly close to being in the yellow on the temp gauge. I had him stop and I turned the machine off then checked the hydro dip stick to see if the oil was bubbly/foamy. Just by pulling the dipstick the first time it had maybe like 3-4 tiny bubbles on it. Then wiped it off and checked again and maybe 1 or 2 tiny bubbles on it. So my guess is if there were a suction leak there would be a lot more bubbles? I'm not to familiar with hydraulic systems but do work on a lot of our equipment especially our plows in the winter time and have needed to put new gland nuts on the lift cylinders so I've messed with hydraulics just not overly familiar with them. Although being as this is a bigger piece of equipment and after I had taken the oil cooler and filter heads off I figured I'd write this up and get some input.

    Also forgot to mention this before but this has done this for a while now long before all of this happened. and I'm not sure if its supposed to or it's just a common stupid problem. When you go to switch the loader from the bucket to the forks and move the Quik-tatch forwards or backwards. One of them moves faster then the other and I'm wondering if there is a restriction there that might cause the temperature to raise possiblly? Just thought I should mention that as a possible cause or issue.

    I believe I ran down most of what I did and tried to sum it up a bit to make it as short and sweet as I could. I've been doing some googling trying to look up hydro overheating symptoms and what I've found hasn't been to much of a help so far but i'm keeping at it. I do have the post as overheating but it wasn't exactly overheating but it seemed to be running high for what I thought, and maybe it did run at that temp normally I just never noticed before. Any and all input is appreciated for this I'm wondering if I just put something back together wrong or missed something. Thank you so much for your replies I really appreciate it!

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    T-Mo's Avatar
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    Actually, you're in the vintage L&G section. I believe you need to be in the construction section, so I'm moving it there.
    Without ice cream, there will be darkness and chaos!
    Olympian Don Kardong

    1965 110s, 1966 110, 1967 112, 2001 LT150, 2003 GT245, 2004 GX345, 2006 X320

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    Thank you T-Mo, I saw the 110 in the description and forgot about the 110 lawn mower, just wanted to jump in and start typing haha.

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Welcome Jack,
    I'm short on time, but a few key points:

    1) If the fluid is foaming, then you have a suction leak as you suspected. On common place in these series machines if the rubber hose (called a "manifold") that connects the large sump line to the pumps on the left side, #2 in the drawing, part # M134346. It's well know for getting hard and brittle. and it only cost $20ish I think.
    Click image for larger version.

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    2) The cylinders not moving exactly together or not in "time" on the loader QA is no big deal, pretty normal actually. Check that the pins, #32 in the timing bar is intact, they are often sheered or missing.
    Click image for larger version.

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    Kenny

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    Thank you very much Kennyd for the reply, I appreciate it. Your suggestion does sound like a possible solution to this problem. I have a few of questions though.

    1. The temperature for the hydro fluid should it hang about half way on the gauge or a little less? I feel like that was where it was normally at prior to this.

    2. Is there a way to check for a definite suction leak? For instance if a tire has a leak spray soapy water and it'll bubble up. Is there a similar method to test for that? Also if there were a suction leak would the fluid leak out a bit since it is technically a hole in the line?

    Also I believe what you said may be, or at least part of the issue because when trying to remove the suction side filter I initially was going to remove line #27 in the picture to get it off. That was harder to do because of the clamps holding the lines together so they didn't move were so rusted I couldn't easily get them off so I decided to remove the hose going to the tranny. So what I'm thinking is that hose or manifold you suggested were brittle that possible in my efforts to try and remove the other hose I may have in inadvertently moved the manifold enough to create a leak if it were brittle? Just a thought I suppose. I will check this out tomorrow and see what I find and get back to you. Again I really appreciate the help!

    *EDIT* Forgot you touched on the loader as well, sorry. That actually is the case I believe because like I mentioned before the loader hasn't been taken care of very well unfortunately over the years that grease fitting that is attached to the cylinder rod has been clogged and corroded. Since I am not looking at it I forget exactly what is going on but the links that are on it are held in place with heavy gauge electrical wire that keeps them in place because it keeps sheering the pins when you replace them because something doesn't get grease so it's seized up. I know it's not how it should be but my boss's don't want to replace it since it works that way. Just thought maybe there was a restriction in the line causing the over heating.

    Also you mentioned the fluid as foaming. I couldn't see any "foaming" fluid exactly it was possibly 3-4 very tiny bubbles on the dipstick at first then progressively less. when I checked it again. I'm guessing even if it's overheating it will bubble because it is hot. I just wanted to clarrify that I couldn't exactly see the fluid as foamy just a few tiny little bubbles.
    Last edited by jacksondxmg; 07-21-2015 at 09:01 PM.

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    Another Idea I had is does the hydro fluid need to be bled of air some how before closing it up after changing the fluid? I would imagine there's some air that gets trapped when changing the fluid. Is there a bleeder valve any where or could you have the fill cap loose and let it idle to bleed it? Again not to sure just an idea I had.

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    1) No clue how the gauge is calibrated, or even if it's acuurate. Get a non-contact temp gun and take some readings on the tranny case and other parts to get real readings, these are fairly inexpensive. Also, it's not uncommon for the hydro fluid to be 100* above ambient temp, so seeing 180* or 190* this time of year if the machine is being worked hard is normal.

    2) There is no good way to find a suction leak. Since there is no pressure when the machine is not running, but negative pressure when it is it's a good possibility you'll never see a drip. Foaming fluid is the key that you have one, but now rereading your first post I see that it really isn't foaming. How about the filters and suction screen, when where they last serviced? Is the fluid clean and clear?

    3) The system is self-bleeding, so air in the lines should not be a problem, unless of course it's sucking in air somewhere.
    Kenny

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    1. I will try and check Temps with a temp gun to see where it is at. What would be a temp to say it is to hot I'm not sure how hot hydraulics get especially this time of year.

    2. Yah I just replaced the hydraulic filters took the suction screen out and there was no debris and it looked good no holes or dents or anything. The hydraulic fluid is all brand new hy-guard so that's totally fresh.

    3. Alright that's what I thought. I figured it bled out somehow. Would changing the fluid like I did initially cause some trapped air in it to bubble but eventually bleed out when it is able to cycle through.

    Thanks again for the help! I also read something about putting oil around fittings to detect for a suction leak because it would get sucked in? Another I saw was putting syran wrap around them and it will get sucked as well. I guess technically those could work just wanted to know someone else's thought or experience.

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    So I didn't really get to work on it today but the loader was used today for most of the day again moving skids of sod. Figured to tell them to watch the temp and see if it's still the same if so shut it down. So by lunch time there was no overheating or getting close to over heating the needle was at about I believe 1/3 or a little more on the temperature gauge. So I figured that was a good sign. By the end of the day say 2 or a little later it was still the same then by 3 he said it had slowly crept up to about half on the gauge. I couldn't hear any suspicious noises or anything to indicate any problems or any leaks. Then I checked the dipstick and there was no bubbles what so ever. Then wiped it and checked it again still no bubbles. He continued to use it for another half hour or so then I checked again for bubbles and still nothing. I think just by the time it was getting later in the afternoon it was getting a little bit hotter out so the temp went up a bit.

    Judging by this am I on the right track to possibly assume I was just jumping the gun a little and getting worried when it could have been trapped air from the initial draining and filling that was trying to bleed out that was causing those first bubbles? I will continue to keep an eye on it and make sure anyone that uses it does as well. Just would like to hear some feedback on that possibly being it and if that is what happens on these bigger machines. Thank you!

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Jack, sounds like the machine is doing OK, I would just recommend again using the temp gun so you can get an idea of what "1/2 way" or "1/3 way" really is. It also sounds like the small bubbles you saw are nothing to worry about, if you had a real suction side leak it would be very foamy and the controls would be jerky. Also, I still recommend getting the manifold replaced and the other rubber couplings-its cheap insurance to save some VERY expensive pumps.
    Kenny

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