is it just me...I hate tiers
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Thread: is it just me...I hate tiers

  1. Top | #1
    theduke's Avatar
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    is it just me...I hate tiers

    .............or is anyone else in the camp of ;

    I refuse to buy a tractor with Tier (any # ) emission + computer (ecu/whatever)..?

    I just don't want to travel this path.

    Yes I look at new/newer tractors daily and want/need one but.

    IF Buying a tier 4/Final/whatever tractor means ...your gonna be screwed in a few/10 years or whatever..Then what?



    I love the new offerings from JD. Just did the build your own thing....about 65k for the dream unit.......... I read about delete kits for other colors. It seems JD might leave us out to dry..well shy of shelling out mega bucks for for new dpf's or whatever else is nessessary to keep it going.

    Your thoughts ...and don't hold back...I'm not looking to create a fight but curious of your thoughts of the future of these new machines.


    I know several of Ya'll have these 4 series or whatever model and love them to death..I get it.. You have my attention. They are the s&*t. I want one in the worst way.

    Its working now but will that continue?
    I have 1 shot at my next Forever tractor and ..I'm old school.

    I can make my 955 run with a 6" chunk of wire...Biggest electrical issue will be a $10 ign. switch or perhaps a starter one day. I don't mind making payments but not looking for another ongoing issue to haunt me.
    Got one already...39 yrs under my belt.
    Bring it..I asked..
    Last edited by theduke; 07-07-2019 at 11:12 PM.
    rtgt, BigJim55, Randog and 1 others like this.
    Dan


    JD 955 ,70A loader, 60" mmm , Original I-match ,4' woods B hog , 5' Box blade , 12' orchard plane/driveway grader ,various other doo-dads & homebuilt implements. Goossen BFBlower, JakeRake..this thing is different.
    Kubota U-15
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    47 8n......good times..V8 in my future possibly

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    ddinham's Avatar
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    I don't know of anybody who has more hours on their Tier IV unit than I do at over 600 hours among the compact tractors. My 4066R has been rock solid. I really believe that JD has done their homework. Now the 1025R that I had, that was another story. When starting it, it always sounded like the 3 cylinders were arguing as who was going to go to work. The 4066R is completely different. Starts immediately and is very smooth. A little noisy until it gets warm, but that is being a diesel. I wrangled with myself before buying it, but have been very impressed.

    Dave
    Gizmo2, rtgt, OxPath and 3 others like this.
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    County Line post hole digger, Rhino 3pt 10ft brush hog, Land Pride 8ft rock rake
    Fit Rite Hydraulics 3pt Top Link, front 3pt adapter for SSQA, 7 1/2 ft Field Roller, 8ft Dearborn tandem disk

  4. Top | #3
    Herminator's Avatar
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    When Dodge came out with electronic ignition it was a computer, too fancy and hard to fix.
    When fuel injection came out. Same thing.
    Just plain diesel tractors. Won’t start in winter too hard to fix.
    Electric windows
    All power gadgets in cars.
    Name a car or truck that is less dependable than one from 20 or 40 years ago.

    Even Deere resisted 4 cylinders because of perceived reliability issues.

    There is nothing our 2010 cannot do that my 2038r can but the new one is quieter, more efficient, more comfortable, faster, etc. Will it still be running in 40 years. I don’t know but the odds are in its favor if automobiles are any indication.

    I also think that when particulate filters start needing cleaning it will not be a trip to the dealer. Everything you need to know on how to do it will be posted on line and it will be like changing your hydraulic oil. Every car or truck I have bought since the 80’s I have said to myself. I will never be able to fix this. The only thing I have found is assemble methods have improved and it has gotten easier, although harder to get to as space is tighter. Think about valve cover gaskets in the 70’s. Almost impossible to keep from leaking, now just put them on and go.

    That being said when I bought the 2038r I thought the same thing.
    Last edited by Herminator; 07-07-2019 at 11:17 PM.
    Gizmo2, MDrew, rtgt and 6 others like this.
    Welcome to Intermission.

    2017 2038R, 400, 3020 & HPX and thingies to hook to the them.
    112 - Sold in July 2017 but took me until November to admit I just cast it out into this cruel world.
    #compactfarmer

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    rtgt's Avatar
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    For me I think it is the concept that keeps me old school at heart. That or I am just an old fart.

    I have to agree with Herm.

    We could tinker on, work on, and rebuild a lot of stuff before. We had to.

    It was comfortable to us that we could repair or get something back to work with a few hand tools.


    I have a Tier 4 tractor. I like it.

    It has a cushioned seat and it doesn't have a hand crank in the front.

    I can work circles around an older tractor with it.

    Grease and service it and work it.


    I am not a fan of buying someone else's headache (used) either.


    The world has changed. While I am not sure it is for the better, it has changed.

    Begrudgingly at times, I am trudging along with it.

    I like my new fangled garage door openers and not having to put ice in the box is pretty cool as well.


    If you have stuff you want to do with a tractor, I would say jump in with the rest of us and get a new/newer tractor. I don't know how long it will last, but I know mine will out last me and what happens to it after I am gone I could care less.

    If you don't like power steering, brakes that work, good hydraulics and all that other stuff, then keep looking for some old tractor that won't have near the functionality of the new fangled stuff.

    Back when tractors were simple - so were the people using them.

    The stuff you want to do is an old fashioned gap.
    There were tractors, most were farm tractors. That is what their purpose was.
    Then there was equipment. Bulldozers and such.

    Then there was lawn mowers. Some got a little better title called garden tractors.

    There wasn't much call for homeowner tractors.

    That market came about along the same time frame that the fancy gizmos did.

    And to grow the market, they keep making them fancier. Some day JD will have a Denalli package.

    Just look at all the whimps that want a cab because it is cold and plowing their 30' suburbanite drive is like certain death without one!
    (Just kidding here - sarcastic comment to make a point. Please put down the flame thrower. Thank you.)


    I am also thinking that excavator you have has some pretty nice technology in it and it appears you didn't go old school with a steam shovel.


    Come on in. The water is fine.
    ddinham, OxPath, spferdil and 5 others like this.
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  7. Top | #5
    ddinham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtgt View Post
    For me I think it is the concept that keeps me old school at heart. That or I am just an old fart.

    I have to agree with Herm.

    We could tinker on, work on, and rebuild a lot of stuff before. We had to.

    It was comfortable to us that we could repair or get something back to work with a few hand tools.


    I have a Tier 4 tractor. I like it.

    It has a cushioned seat and it doesn't have a hand crank in the front.

    I can work circles around an older tractor with it.

    Grease and service it and work it.


    I am not a fan of buying someone else's headache (used) either.


    The world has changed. While I am not sure it is for the better, it has changed.

    Begrudgingly at times, I am trudging along with it.

    I like my new fangled garage door openers and not having to put ice in the box is pretty cool as well.


    If you have stuff you want to do with a tractor, I would say jump in with the rest of us and get a new/newer tractor. I don't know how long it will last, but I know mine will out last me and what happens to it after I am gone I could care less.

    If you don't like power steering, brakes that work, good hydraulics and all that other stuff, then keep looking for some old tractor that won't have near the functionality of the new fangled stuff.

    Back when tractors were simple - so were the people using them.

    The stuff you want to do is an old fashioned gap.
    There were tractors, most were farm tractors. That is what their purpose was.
    Then there was equipment. Bulldozers and such.

    Then there was lawn mowers. Some got a little better title called garden tractors.

    There wasn't much call for homeowner tractors.

    That market came about along the same time frame that the fancy gizmos did.

    And to grow the market, they keep making them fancier. Some day JD will have a Denalli package.

    Just look at all the whimps that want a cab because it is cold and plowing their 30' suburbanite drive is like certain death without one!
    (Just kidding here - sarcastic comment to make a point. Please put down the flame thrower. Thank you.)


    I am also thinking that excavator you have has some pretty nice technology in it and it appears you didn't go old school with a steam shovel.


    Come on in. The water is fine.
    I grew up on those "old" tractors, cars and trucks. Would I go back to them. Not in this lifetime. I cut my teeth on a couple of 1937 Allis Chalmers WC tractors. Hand crank, no lights, hand brakes and hard to steer. They could break your arm. You learned quick how best to crank them to keep from breaking your arm. But I don't remember ever spending a dime on repairs, just maintenance, but they were never going to run over 10,000 hours like my nearby farmer friend on his JD 6400. Cars were stick shift, and no power steering. No A/C. NOBODY buys a car today without A/C. Pickup trucks were the same way, but very rough riding. Most pickups would not break today's speed limit. We had no speed limits back then, but it would not have made any difference.

    Back then, the odometers only had 5 digits as there was little need to go past 100,000 miles on it. The cars/trucks just did not last as long as today's vehicles. I have well over 160,000 miles on my F250 and do not ever plan to replace it. I just sold my 16 year old Town Car to my son with 131,000 miles on it and it was still like new, even original brakes. Best buy he ever got, but I wanted a small 4x4 SUV as my needs have changed since moving to the country. I had planned to still be driving that Town Car until they took my license away from me.

    Some complain about not being able to work on their vehicles like they used to. But think about it. These vehicles just do not need to be worked on as much as the older vehicles. I rarely even raise the hood on my vehicles these days. We used to have to tune them up every 10,000 miles with new points and plugs. Now it is just plugs every 100,000 miles, a figure we used to not even get to before we got rid of it. I am not one for buying new or newer vehicles very often. I usually buy one and keep it pretty much forever, so I have a pretty good idea how new vehicles compare to the old ones, especially since I was around in those "old" days.

    A lot of people complain and wish they still had the "good old days". The good old days are right now!!!!!

    Dave
    rtgt, OxPath, rjpoog1989 and 4 others like this.
    JD 4066R CAB
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    County Line post hole digger, Rhino 3pt 10ft brush hog, Land Pride 8ft rock rake
    Fit Rite Hydraulics 3pt Top Link, front 3pt adapter for SSQA, 7 1/2 ft Field Roller, 8ft Dearborn tandem disk

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    All of this is only gonna get worse! This is your tax dollar hard at work. The EPA revises emission requirements every few years. Any item(s) manufactured after the issue date of the new reg must meet the requirements. HUGE fines are imposed if they don't...remember VW a few years back when they "fudged" their diesel emissions? In order to meet the regs, sensors & computers need to be used...none of us can tell how much N2, or CO, or SO2 is being emitted from out engines, but sensors & computers can. So, yes, computers are needed to comply with Fed regs. Do we like them, hell no! I can look at my 322, blue smoke, I've got a ring or valve problem. White smoke, anti-freeze getting into combustion chamber. Light gray or heavy black, carb problem. Computer: red light, oh $hit. something's (??) wrong!

    With all the concerns about "climate warming" I'm thinking the EPA will again step in to "help" the situation. This may be fine for our air, but what about the rest of the world? Maybe Trump should build his wall around the entire country...about 30 miles high!

    Sorry for the rant and a little off topic, Bob
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  10. Top | #7
    JDLTG's Avatar
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    When we bought our 8 acre place it became obvious very quickly that I would need a tractor. I found a ‘52 JD model M. It came with a 2 bottom plow and a well used tandem disc. I started out plowing the 5 acre field and then discing. Anybody who’s started discing a freshly plowed field can appreciate how difficult it is to steer an old tractor with no power steering and quite a bit of play in the steering box. Every time I crossed that field I burned 10 gallons of gas.

    After 15 years of using the “M” and it using me, I bought a new 790 with a 300 loader. Now that’s still a pretty simple tractor, but it felt like i was sitting in the seat of a new car. Much more comfortable to operate than the “M” was. Power steering, low range for special jobs and a loader to move stuff that I previously had to use a wheelbarrow for. And it hardly used any fuel. I expected to keep it for the rest of my days.

    In the meantime I picked up a ‘39 Model “B” and restored it. It was a fun project and while it’s fun to drive around, I couldn’t imagine sitting in that seat all day. (At least on those you could stand up if you needed to)

    Now I discovered I needed a larger tractor so I sold the 790 and loader. I bought a 4044R open station with 440R FEL. I’ve only had it for 3 weeks, but operating it is easy and comfortable. One of the most difficult things with the 790 was getting the loader hydraulics plugged back in when re-attaching the loader. It would always settle and pressurize the male connectors. So with the 440R loader, I added the option of the single point connector. It’s amazing how fast it is to connect. You just drop the block in the receiver, pull the cam lock handle and all four hoses are connected and locked. It was well worth the $180 add.

    I have to admit that until I purchased the 4044R, I didn’t realize diesel emissions had changed. I became concerned about the regen process and what it was going to require. I read a lot of horror stories online. But now after using it and seeing how the Final Tier 4 operates I don’t have any more concerns. I posted a few days ago questioning the Final Tier 4 and several members here put my mind at ease. I’m just going to use it for what I need it for and not worry about it.
    rtgt, theduke, Herminator and 2 others like this.
    Lee

    2018 JD 4044R/440R loader, 1939 JD model B, X380, X570 mowers. JD 503 brush mower, Frontier GM1060E finish mower, Frontier WC1105 wood chipper, JD 655 tiller. Misc discs and cultivators.

  11. Top | #8

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    There’s nothing I hate more than emissions equipment on diesels. They cause the engine to work harder, require more fuel, raise operating temps, fail often and leave you stranded, most likely produce more emissions overall due to more manufacturing processes including all that goes into DEF production and transportation, and cost a ton to replace.

    There are companies that can delete any tractor. I reached out to get my 3046 done. The cost wasn’t really practical at the time but if I needed to replace the dpf then I would go the delete route instead.

    Diesels do run fine with that crap on them, they just run even better without it. Think of a diesel as a giant air pump. The easier to get the air in and back out the better the engine will run.


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