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    sennister's Avatar
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    Major Home Projects

    Well it all started last June when we had a hail storm come through. We were not home but I saw lots of roofing being done last summer. I was talking with a neighbor this spring and he mentioned that he was having his insurance adjuster out to look at damage. He found out they are putting a new roof on his house and polebarn.

    We have 4 buildings on the property. (House, Pole Barn, 1.5 car garage and 2 car garage) all of various ages ranging from 1962 to 1999. The pole barn and 2 car garage are steel roof and pole barn style siding. The house and 1.5 car garage are the oldest buildings and they are 3 tab shingles with residential steel siding about 20 years old.

    So we called our insurance company and started a claim to get the inspector out just slipping in under the 1 year anniversary of the storm. I was there when the inspection happened and just got the report back and the approved the following work.

    House - Full roof replacement, Siding on 2 walls, Leaf Guard Gutters, down spouts, deck, awning over one window and window well covers

    1.5 car garage - Full roof replacement, Siding on 2 walls, outdoor yard light

    Pole Barn - This has pretty thick steel roof so they couldn't find any dents. However new rain cap on my chimney for the wood stove.

    2 car garage - Some trim was the only thing noted.

    I was working with a contractor and they took a sample of the residential steel siding and sent it off to a lab. In Minnesota if you have siding damage the insurance company can can get away with replacing only the damaged side if the siding doesn't match now or if the original siding is still available. The contractor said that steel siding changes up every 8 years or so. Ours is at least 20 years old so he said they will have to do the entire house. We are waiting on the report back right now. Everyone we have spoken with has said the entire house will be done as well as the 1.5 car garage.

    So in talking with my wife this changes things a bit for us. The next home remodel project on the to do list was to update the kitchen. That project was going to include replacing the 2 windows in there with the knowledge that we have about 20 windows that are nearing end of life and due for replacement. Not to mention the front door. We were going to do windows as we worked around the house addressing a room at a time. However with the siding coming down, now is a better time to address all the windows at once and front door. Also further down our list of projects on the house was to get rid of the tuck under garage which we never use. The door opening is only 6.5' tall so the truck doesn't fit there so it is useless and a waste in heating in the winter because it isn't insulated that well. Then I would like to add an attached 3 car garage off our porch. In talking with my wife she agreed that this would be a good addition. It also makes sense to do it now because the roof will tie into the existing roof on the house and then the siding will tie in. My wife is an architectural drafter and works on new construction custom homes. So she has been working on plans for the new garage. I have a buddy that is a structural engineer at a big engineering firm so we are going to be chatting. We are not in a rush to close off the tuck under garage unless the city makes us do it with the new construction of the attached garage on the back of the house. It will mainly be storage/office space. The basement is all block wall so we can figure out how we will do that work later. The current projects on the house are going to be expensive enough. While we have a pretty sizable insurance check, it is just a drop in the bucket in the big picture on the construction costs we are looking at.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    Where we stand right now.

    This past weekend we went to a showroom for Renewal by Anderson Windows. We really like the idea of a composite core. There are several brands out there that offer something like this each with their own name. In Anderson they call it Fibrex. While one of the big benefits of going with Renewal is that they can come in and install new windows without messing with siding, which kind of goes away being we are messing with siding, the other benefit is that my wife really wants glider windows. The style that slides side to side to open. We currently have casements. The problem with the casement windows is partly that they are old and heavy but the mechanisms on several of the bigger windows have broken or are really hard to operate. Gliders have issues as well but most of that is with the wood core warping which isn't an issue with Fibrex. We have a rep stopping out Thursday to go over options. We will likely get the front door done at the same time.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    For the siding, still waiting on confirmation on if the entire house is going to be replaced or not. That might impact the window decision. Anyhow we have 20 year old residential steel siding today. As mentioned my wife does drafting on new construction and she mentioned she really like Hardie Board siding vs Steel. In looking at Lowes which carries Hardie Board but not Steel and Menards which carries Steel but not Hardie Board, it looks like material costs is going to be close to a wash. I suspect installation costs may be a bit higher on Hardie Board compared to steel siding but that is a guess.

    Anyone have Hardie Board and have any comments on the quality of it compared to a steel siding. I do have some pretty good dents from kicking up a rock here and there with the mower. I suspect the cement board is less likely to get dented by hail.

    The contractor we are working with did say they would do a full wrap on the house if all siding was being replaced. We haven't asked if they do Hardie Board yet.
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    Fozsey's Avatar
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    Although I am a fan of cement board siding, remember it is low maintenance not maintenance free. Eventually, it will need paint or some other surface coating. That may not concern you but it adds to the overall cost of ownership and should be considered when making your final decision. Many people are surprised when I tell them to figure $5,000 to $15,000 10 to 15 years down the road for refinishing. The manufacturers will tell you 25 but I think 15 is more realistic. For durability, you can't beat it but a quality steel counterpart is also a great choice and maintenance free. I wouldn't consider the two a wash in price points. In my area, cement board can 30 to 50 percent higher than steel.

    As far as hail is concerned, the newer steel is better than it was 30 years ago but it will still dent from rocks or hail. Either will do well but I have yet to see a catastrophic failure of cement board from hail damage.
    Last edited by Fozsey; 06-06-2018 at 01:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sennister View Post
    Where we stand right now.

    This past weekend we went to a showroom for Renewal by Anderson Windows. We really like the idea of a composite core. There are several brands out there that offer something like this each with their own name. In Anderson they call it Fibrex. While one of the big benefits of going with Renewal is that they can come in and install new windows without messing with siding, which kind of goes away being we are messing with siding, the other benefit is that my wife really wants glider windows. The style that slides side to side to open. We currently have casements. The problem with the casement windows is partly that they are old and heavy but the mechanisms on several of the bigger windows have broken or are really hard to operate. Gliders have issues as well but most of that is with the wood core warping which isn't an issue with Fibrex. We have a rep stopping out Thursday to go over options. We will likely get the front door done at the same time.
    Low quality casements can be a pain; but any kind of sliding window (e.g. single/double hung, slider) is less energy efficient because of the way the seals work on each type, and they can get all sorts of crud in the lower track that could hamper smooth operation.

    Based on what I've heard about fiberglass windows, that's what I would probably use for new or remodel work. Since the siding is coming off, putting 'new,' not 'remodel' windows in would be a smart move.

    Andersen has been around a long time.
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    2 years ago we went with a vinyl replacement window that is a triple pain heavy vinyl and a woodgrain finish on the inside. One of the estimates from one of the major companies was for the "gilder" Windows. We had casement windows that were 24 years old but we decided on the normal double hung style. We are very happy with our windows and quite surprised by the saving on heating and air conditioning. Good luck.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fozsey View Post
    Although I am a fan of cement board siding, remember it is low maintenance not maintenance free. Eventually, it will need paint or some other surface coating. That may not concern you but it adds to the overall cost of ownership and should be considered when making your final decision. Many people are surprised when I tell them to figure $5,000 to $15,000 10 to 15 years down the road for refinishing. The manufacturers will tell you 25 but I think 15 is more realistic. For durability, you can't beat it but a quality steel counterpart is also a great choice and maintenance free. I wouldn't consider the two a wash in price points. In my area, cement board can 30 to 50 percent higher than steel.

    As far as hail is concerned, the newer steel is better than it was 30 years ago but it will still dent from rocks or hail. Either will do well but I have yet to see a catastrophic failure of cement board from hail damage.
    As I mentioned I priced it out. Just looking at the siding not trim as I was only looking for a rough ball park of is it 30-50% higher, roughly the same or less. When I went to Menards which had the steel siding and Lowes looking at 12' sections of both.

    Menards has steel on sale right now for $10.99 but regular price is $15.99

    At Lowes they have the Hardie Board which the price depends on the color. It ranged from $7.92 to $17.38. Most of it averaging in the $9-12 range. I only saw one color that was in the $17.38 price. Not sure why it was so much more than the others.

    I am a vet so at Lowes I could also get 10% off the price.

    I did talk to my contractor and they said they can install Hardie Board if we want to go to that. He mentioned another product that I hadn't looked at before. LP Smartside It is a wood based composite. They do both or steel, vinyl and such. I don't know much about the Smartside but it looks like it has a 50 year warranty vs the 30 on the Hardie Board.

    That is good to hear on the finishing every 10-15 years. My wife was looking at it from the point of Hardie being finished at the factory so there would be no maintenance. That may not be the case. With the Smartside, I haven't looked at it much but I wasn't seeing a color sample so that might also have to be finished initially and then every so many years.

    The contractor is going to check and see what the difference in cost will be. I suspect labor will be more.

    The main thing I don't want is vinyl where you get holes if there is an impact.
    Last edited by sennister; 06-06-2018 at 06:02 AM.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjncad View Post
    Low quality casements can be a pain; but any kind of sliding window (e.g. single/double hung, slider) is less energy efficient because of the way the seals work on each type, and they can get all sorts of crud in the lower track that could hamper smooth operation.

    Based on what I've heard about fiberglass windows, that's what I would probably use for new or remodel work. Since the siding is coming off, putting 'new,' not 'remodel' windows in would be a smart move.

    Andersen has been around a long time.
    My in-laws both are retired from Anderson. We live about 5 miles from the main factory in Bayport.

    My wife is really doesn't want casement. We have had issues with them. The ones in the house right now are coming up on 20 years old which is a factor. They are high end Anderson windows that my In-laws put in. We bought the house from them when they retired and bought a place in Florida. I would say the windows that are the biggest problem are the ones in the porch. They are very big triple pane windows so they are very heavy. Luckily they are reachable from the outside because you have to push on them to close while someone cranks. Now most of these windows will just be going away as they are on the wall that will become the point where the garage connects to the house. There are 3 of them that will remain and will be replaced with something else. They may be smaller windows because we are planning on converting the porch into a mud room/laundry. Where the windows that will remain are now, we will likely want counter space.

    So this kind of leaves glider vs double hung. My wife doesn't like the horizontal bar in the double hung. Glider still has the bar vertically.

    I want the garage more than I care about the windows. So by conceding a bit on the windows gets me some points to argue for a 30x40 garage.

    We have discussed the new construction vs remodel. I kind of mentioned this in an earlier post above. The big advantage of remodel is not messing with the siding. Renewal by Anderson does windows a couple different ways. If the sills are good they can just replace the glass I guess. We want it all gone and go down to the rough opening. That means new trim outside and in. Sounds like a new construction window at that point. So we looked at Anderson Architectural A Series windows. However we really want the Fibrex which is a composite material. However they are only available in double hung and casements. So back to that issue. She wants gliders. If we go with Renewal we can get gliders in Fibrex.

    I do know it will be cheaper to do new construction and most of the benefits of remodel windows don't apply. However another factor is that they have offers through them that simply are not available other places. Remember none of this work was really planned. They have a sale going on now for 0 down, 0% interest for 2 years and 30% off the project. I am sure it will be cheaper to go to Home Depot and order those Architectural A Series but again Fibrex isn't an option in what she wants and we would chew through most of the savings in interest.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drifterbike View Post
    2 years ago we went with a vinyl replacement window that is a triple pain heavy vinyl and a woodgrain finish on the inside. One of the estimates from one of the major companies was for the "gilder" Windows. We had casement windows that were 24 years old but we decided on the normal double hung style. We are very happy with our windows and quite surprised by the saving on heating and air conditioning. Good luck.
    Yeah while double hung and gliders are going to be less efficient than casements, it will likely be better than what we have today.

    The biggest thing that will save us is getting rid of the tuck under garage. That will likely be a bit down the road but that is probably our biggest heating and cooling loss. There are many issues with that which is why we don't use it. The obvious is that even though the door is insulated it isn't as well insulated as a wall. The bigger issues are that there is an access door. As I mentioned the garage door is only about 6.5'. So that means the track is low. Too low for a 7' access door so the people that built the house just cut the corner off the access door. There is a storm door there but there is also that 6"x 6" cut out of the top corner of the door which is only wood. Of course with most tuck under garage styles like that, the bedrooms are right above the garage. So in the winter it gets quite cold in there. Well they decided to get some heat in there garage by putting a few vents in the duct work. So even if we parked in there, when you start a car the exhaust goes up into the bedrooms.

    Yeah that garage just needs to go away. This is why we don't use it for anything but storage.

    Not only will my heating bill go down once that is all eliminated, but the new one will have an insulated floor and in-floor heat and I will likely not heat the pole barn as much as I do today.
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    sennister's Avatar
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    Here are some sketches that I put together just to get an idea. The room off the garage is the existing porch which we will tie into.

    The only complaint my wife has at this point is how much deeper it is than the porch. We can't match up the porch size because it is only 21' on the outside. So that would give about a 20' deep garage. We thought about centering it on the porch but the way the driveway comes up along side the house, we wouldn't have enough room to make the 90 deg turn to pull into the garage. We need to push it back, so it makes sense to just continue the wall from the porch to be the front wall of the garage.

    This is the only photo of the area that I could find. You can see the end of the house and the three windows of the porch which will remain but may be reduced in size. The photo is looking down the driveway to the street. We park around back of the house right now next to the pole barn.





    Last edited by sennister; 06-06-2018 at 06:56 AM.
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    JD Z950R 60" Deck with DFS Collection System

    JD X585, 54C deck,
    CTC Model X4750 F.E.L - Modified Imp Pressure Relief from 900 to 1175PSI, Power Flow and MC519 cart, 54-inch Quick-Hitch Front Blade, 47-inch Quick-Hitch Snow Blower, 3-pt hitch, HF Quick Hitch, Heavy Hitch, 48" box blade/rear blade, Dethacher, 3pt Sprayer

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