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    SulleyBear's Avatar
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    This Doesn't Look Right, I think.......

    Hello,

    I am in the process of re staining my front entrance door and side panels. They are actually made of a composite material and have a wood grain so as to appear like wood, but they are cored with other material to make them stronger and less prone to "wood issues". I have been staining with a process of semi transparent stain and highlighting areas with solid color stain of the same color.

    I have about 5 coats on now and I am ready to clear coat. Here is what the doors look like after the work thus far......(all hand sanding, tack rags, steel wool between layers, etc.) I am pleased with the look and clarity. They appear just like wood with the light quarter sawn effect from using the solid stain to highlight some areas. After all, I don't want it to look like paint when I am done.



    I am using all Behr Premium Products, which I have had good results with previously in their exterior stain, etc. Everything I am using this time is a Latex based stain and clear coat, so its water soluble for clean up.

    The clear coat really surprised me when I just opened it. After stirring, this is how it looks......



    The can did not appear to have been opened before. I just bought these in the last week, along with the stain. The clear coat has a very heavy tint to it, almost like the semi transparent stain. Even when I stir it with the pain stir stick, it stays on the paint stick just like the stain did.

    The last time I clear coated this door, it was with an oil based clear coat and I certainly don't re call it being "tinted", in the way this clear coat is. Have any of you used the Behr Latex clear coat sealant and found it to be tinted to the stain color you were working with?

    This is way too much labor and time invested in this door to screw it up now. I applied it to the stir stick and it definitely left a tint on the stir stick, it wasn't just clear.

    On Behr's website, it says ""The beauty of the wood grain shows through with a hint of color."" So, perhaps Behr is tinting the clear so it doesn't appear like a plastic layer of clear when applied.

    Not sure if I should proceed with this clear coat or not. I sure don't need to be sanding and re doing this door and side panels again. Once every 5 years or so is plenty often enough for me...........

    Thoughts? It sounds like their premium latex based clear coat for exterior stain does have a color tint in it to match the stain being clear coated. i didn't realize they tinted clear coats. The last time I did this with the oil base, it was as clear as water when applied. It was also clear when it dried.

    I distinctly remembered watching the woman tint the stain, both the semi transparent and the solid color, but I didn't see her tint the clear coat. I don't remember her even shaking the clear coat, to be honest.......

    Thoughts?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20180724_145446656_HDR.jpg IMG_20180724_145211058.jpg IMG_20180724_145220823.jpg
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    SulleyBear's Avatar
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    Here's the door before I started this process a couple of days ago....for comparison.....

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20180717_100900549.jpg
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    Well, I don't have any advise about the clear. You're doing better than I did with a similar product. When I was building our lake home in the late '90s, I purchased a similar exterior door from Pease. It had the wood grain texture and it may have been a composite, but it appeared to be more fiberglass than anything. Pease staining instructions called for a semi-transparent made by Minwax and I followed Pease and Minwax instructions to the letter.

    I wasn't at all pleased with how the stain applied and I immediately had some adhesion issues, where it was starting to peel off----this was before I even got to clear coating. Of course, it adhere just enough. I couldn't sand it off without impacting the wood grain texture. So I end up having to utilize paint stripper, which meant the glass panel had to come out so I could get all the stripper cleaned off.

    It turned into a huge project. Once I got it stripped and prepped, I abandon any idea of a stain. I sprayed it with a single stage polyurethane automotive paint.

    But I should have disregarded the balance of Pease's instructions, which specified to coat it with the light (glass) panel in place to seal it, which I did. The door and the light frame expanded/contracted at a different rate with temperature, so all the paint cracked around the light. If I had done them separately, while apart, I likely wouldn't of had any issues.

    About a year or two after that, the door panel cracked between the latch hole and the light opening, as there wasn't much door material between them, couple in temperature and the pulling force on the handle when opening/closing.

    I got about $3K in this door and a whole lot of time. I get highly annoyed every time I look at it. So I seldom utilize it. Some day I'll replace it with a steel door. I paint all my steel doors with single stage polyurethane automotive paint. It is very durable, cleans easily, and looks great. Definitely not cheap. However, I'm not having to do it every 5 years, either. Its been 20 on the steel doors with automotive paint and they still look great.
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    I have no idea if it should have a tint but I would do two things.

    Take it back to the store where you got it and have them open another can to see if it is the same. Then I would test a very small area that if you donít like it you wonít show so bad. I guess the third thing is I would let it sit for a week and make sure you donít get any peeling or lifting.

    Itís a little too dark to take a good photo but this is the inside of our front door which is a steel door and a guy we know painted it for us. He passed a few years ago but he did this 20 years ago and it is kind of neat because he put his initials in a knot that is at the lower right of the window.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2018-07-24 19.12.15.jpg
    Last edited by Herminator; 07-24-2018 at 07:44 PM.
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    Looks like someone tinted a clear coat by accident...
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    I would speculate that if the product describes a hint of color then it has been deliberately stained.
    There should be plenty of clear latex products available, I would return that and hunt for something genuinely clear.
    The entrance looks fantastic now, I would fear undoing your current effort by adding more tint.
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    I'm with JeffB. I would try to get the clear, clear coat, that's just too much work to start over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martincom View Post
    Well, I don't have any advise about the clear. You're doing better than I did with a similar product. When I was building our lake home in the late '90s, I purchased a similar exterior door from Pease. It had the wood grain texture and it may have been a composite, but it appeared to be more fiberglass than anything. Pease staining instructions called for a semi-transparent made by Minwax and I followed Pease and Minwax instructions to the letter.

    I wasn't at all pleased with how the stain applied and I immediately had some adhesion issues, where it was starting to peel off----this was before I even got to clear coating. Of course, it adhere just enough. I couldn't sand it off without impacting the wood grain texture. So I end up having to utilize paint stripper, which meant the glass panel had to come out so I could get all the stripper cleaned off.

    It turned into a huge project. Once I got it stripped and prepped, I abandon any idea of a stain. I sprayed it with a single stage polyurethane automotive paint.

    But I should have disregarded the balance of Pease's instructions, which specified to coat it with the light (glass) panel in place to seal it, which I did. The door and the light frame expanded/contracted at a different rate with temperature, so all the paint cracked around the light. If I had done them separately, while apart, I likely wouldn't of had any issues.

    About a year or two after that, the door panel cracked between the latch hole and the light opening, as there wasn't much door material between them, couple in temperature and the pulling force on the handle when opening/closing.

    I got about $3K in this door and a whole lot of time. I get highly annoyed every time I look at it. So I seldom utilize it. Some day I'll replace it with a steel door. I paint all my steel doors with single stage polyurethane automotive paint. It is very durable, cleans easily, and looks great. Definitely not cheap. However, I'm not having to do it every 5 years, either. Its been 20 on the steel doors with automotive paint and they still look great.
    I think our door is an Anderson, because they have already replaced it under warranty once after about 10 or 12 years. It began to get moisture between the panes of glass and my wife sent photo's and the company sent out a new entrance door assembly and two guys to replace it. They did a marginal job on the install, so I re did much of it and sealed it correctly. This door gets direct sunlight from sun up until at least 3 pm each day. It faces south east, so the sun beats on it constantly.

    I haven't had any adhesion problems and I think this is the 3rd time I have done this in about 20 years. I will say, compared to a "true wooden door", this one has been much less trouble and less work. It shuts the same and latches just as it should all 12 months of the year. We had a "real wood" entrance door on our last house and that one was more trouble than this door has been. I think I became a master at adjusting the door latch and lock mechanisms to keep that wooden door shutting correctly.

    We have neighbors who paid big money for a custom built pair of wooden doors and not only are they refinishing them every couple of years, the doors swell and stick so often, or they shrink and rattle when the wind blows, so they avoid using them.

    Another neighbor asked me to mow his lawn for him last week when he was traveling on business. After I mowed and trimmed, I was walking up his front sidewalk with my back pack blower on and I always clean the front entrance areas and walkways, etc. When I aimed the back pack blower at the very base of the door, it blew his front door straight open. No one at home, either. I took a picture and called him right away as I wanted him to know I was going to have to go into his house, lock the door from the inside and then walk through the house to leave through a service door with a handle lock on it. When he got on the phone he said, "I noticed the door has been rattling lately and not latching correctly." First time I have ever blown open someone's front door with my back pack blower.....

    I went home and got some tools and adjusted his door for him so it would latch and stay shut and locked. Otherwise, someone could have just pushed on it and opened it based on how it was when I found it. He was going to be gone for a couple more days and I didn't want to leave his house that un-secure.

    Neighbors about 5 houses down the road are having the entire outside of their house painted by a professional painting crew right now. They have spent the last week sanding and priming and began the color application today. Everyday, there are 5 to 7 people working on the project. I asked the neighbor what he is spending and he said it's $17,300 for the exterior painting...........They will have 5 people with 80 to 100 hours each plus a couple of part timers to complete the job. It's a lot of work to do it correctly and from what I have seen, they are doing it all right. They are cutting in all the trim today and the boss was starting with the base house color.

    Few people want to take the time to do a paint job or refinish job correctly. And it usually shows in the end results.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by SulleyBear View Post
    I think our door is an Anderson, because they have already replaced it under warranty once after about 10 or 12 years. It began to get moisture between the panes of glass and my wife sent photo's and the company sent out a new entrance door assembly and two guys to replace it. They did a marginal job on the install, so I re did much of it and sealed it correctly. This door gets direct sunlight from sun up until at least 3 pm each day. It faces south east, so the sun beats on it constantly.

    I haven't had any adhesion problems and I think this is the 3rd time I have done this in about 20 years. I will say, compared to a "true wooden door", this one has been much less trouble and less work. It shuts the same and latches just as it should all 12 months of the year. We had a "real wood" entrance door on our last house and that one was more trouble than this door has been. I think I became a master at adjusting the door latch and lock mechanisms to keep that wooden door shutting correctly.

    We have neighbors who paid big money for a custom built pair of wooden doors and not only are they refinishing them every couple of years, the doors swell and stick so often, or they shrink and rattle when the wind blows, so they avoid using them.

    Another neighbor asked me to mow his lawn for him last week when he was traveling on business. After I mowed and trimmed, I was walking up his front sidewalk with my back pack blower on and I always clean the front entrance areas and walkways, etc. When I aimed the back pack blower at the very base of the door, it blew his front door straight open. No one at home, either. I took a picture and called him right away as I wanted him to know I was going to have to go into his house, lock the door from the inside and then walk through the house to leave through a service door with a handle lock on it. When he got on the phone he said, "I noticed the door has been rattling lately and not latching correctly." First time I have ever blown open someone's front door with my back pack blower.....

    I went home and got some tools and adjusted his door for him so it would latch and stay shut and locked. Otherwise, someone could have just pushed on it and opened it based on how it was when I found it. He was going to be gone for a couple more days and I didn't want to leave his house that un-secure.

    Neighbors about 5 houses down the road are having the entire outside of their house painted by a professional painting crew right now. They have spent the last week sanding and priming and began the color application today. Everyday, there are 5 to 7 people working on the project. I asked the neighbor what he is spending and he said it's $17,300 for the exterior painting...........They will have 5 people with 80 to 100 hours each plus a couple of part timers to complete the job. It's a lot of work to do it correctly and from what I have seen, they are doing it all right. They are cutting in all the trim today and the boss was starting with the base house color.

    Few people want to take the time to do a paint job or refinish job correctly. And it usually shows in the end results.........
    I'm glad I don't have neighbors but if I did I'd want one like you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herminator View Post
    I have no idea if it should have a tint but I would do two things.

    Take it back to the store where you got it and have them open another can to see if it is the same. Then I would test a very small area that if you donít like it you wonít show so bad. I guess the third thing is I would let it sit for a week and make sure you donít get any peeling or lifting.

    Itís a little too dark to take a good photo but this is the inside of our front door which is a steel door and a guy we know painted it for us. He passed a few years ago but he did this 20 years ago and it is kind of neat because he put his initials in a knot that is at the lower right of the window.
    Quote Originally Posted by firemachine69 View Post
    Looks like someone tinted a clear coat by accident...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
    I would speculate that if the product describes a hint of color then it has been deliberately stained.
    There should be plenty of clear latex products available, I would return that and hunt for something genuinely clear.
    The entrance looks fantastic now, I would fear undoing your current effort by adding more tint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robnik View Post
    I'm with JeffB. I would try to get the clear, clear coat, that's just too much work to start over.
    I am going to go back to Home Depot tomorrow with the can and see what the paint department has to say, as well as have them open another can of clear.

    I pulled the old can of clear out of my "paint can drawer" and while it was a oil based product, it was as clear as water. Of course, I don't want to put the oil based clear over the latex stain after all of the time spent stripping the old finish off the door.

    It was one week today since I applied the first coat of stain. I have applied one coat of stain about each day, with weather permitting. Area's where my prep work had gotten into the "texture grain" of the door surface, I very delicately painted those areas with the solid color stain to give it an intentional variation. Then I would stain over it with the semi transparent stain, paint the "defect" again with the solid stain, then another coat of semi transparent, to a depth of 5 layers.

    One of my complaints before was the surface was so uniform, it almost didn't appear that it could be real wood (which it's not). Now, with this effort, there is enough difference in the color and appearance of the surface I think it actually looks better than when new. But I have spent a lot of time painting these areas to looks like "variations" and it seems to have worked out.

    Thanks all for the comments. I wondered if anyone had ever encountered this "tinted clear" before as I sure hadn't.

    I will post the results from my visit to the store........

    I hand painted the big flower pots on the front porch and painted the leaves all around them by hand for a surprise for Mrs. Bear. I painted those and textured the pots to look like Terra cot-ta / clay pots and it's been a few seasons now and they could use some touch up. But the pots are actually some type of injection molded material like Styrofoam with a hard smooth surface layer on the outside. There are bricks inside them to weight them down. They have been quite durable and certainly are easier to carry around and store in the winter.

    Main thing was she liked them, and then said "How about painting 6 more pots just like those for by the garage doors.". I don't think she realized how much time I spent hand painting those little flowers with this tiny paint brush and the paint was from a Testor's Model Paint Set like I used to use when I made models as a kid.........So, I decided to give her something different.

    I found some little old steel farm buckets at an auction with wire metal handles and drilled drain holes and painted them differently, with much less detail....... She was happy and that's what's important.
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