Combined DIY PB and 3 spool valve for TnT, mower, spliter plans
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Thread: Combined DIY PB and 3 spool valve for TnT, mower, spliter plans

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    Combined DIY PB and 3 spool valve for TnT, mower, spliter plans

    I'm in the planning / dreaming stages for my 2015 2032R for adding rear hydraulics for PB (Power Beyond), TnT (Top and Tilt), mower lift and possible PTO snow blower control, etc. and wanted to inquire for some guidance / input. Based on the excellent information on this site (e.g. Dieselshadow, JeremyFXDWG, Brian from Fit Rite, Kennyd, WVdirtroad, and others) I think I have a pretty good idea of how to proceed in general. So far I've only bought the little plug that enables PB w/ the appropriate hoses. I still need to get the tractor in the garage w/ some heat and snoop around with the rear tire off, but that may wait until the chains come off in the spring.

    Stage 1 would be to do the PB as a first step using the DIY 2520 PB post of JeremyFXDWG, but I'd also put in the tank port at the same time (capped). The valve would come as Stage 2.

    Though I don't have a backhoe, I'm considering a basic log splitter. Though my hydraulic capacity isn't a lot at 5 gpm, it should give me about a 30 sec. cycle time (and ~15 tons) on the splitter I'm considering. It would be a lot faster than the splitting maul and foot pump splitter I'm using now. One goal is to try to insure the best possible flow / pressure for the splitter. The PB flow will go to / from the rear SCV when not used for a log splitter.

    I'm looking at a couple different valves for the rear 3 spool SCV. One from Surplus Center; Prince SV series PB, 3 spools, 2 or 3 float, ranging from about $425+ to $450+, or Bucher using a similar 2 float / 1 reg. DA / PB configuration for about $460 and closer to $500 for all three spools being float capable. Both are nominal 12 GPM capacity manual valves that you assemble using sections. I'm leaning toward the Bucher assuming that the handle orientation can be reversed. Any thoughts as to which valve would be preferable?

    I've generally seen recommendations for 3/8" lines for PB lines, though 1/4" lines would generally suffice for QD / cylinder take offs. I'm wondering if 1/2" lines to the initial PB ports Pump / Return done using 1/2" fittings / QD could help maximize flow / pressure. There are fittings available that would enable 1/2" JIC connections to the 3/8" transmission connections. The 'IN' (return) port would have an extra jog to insure enough room for 1/2" hose along with increasing size from 3/8" to 1/2" using a F - M JIC elbow applied to a long 3/8" elbow.

    I'm not sure I'd try to use 1/2" for the tank port / valve out connection since I don't think it would generally see the full flow, though I've found a fitting that could be used if it would all fit. I've seen recommendations that a tank return line might need to be larger since the flow velocity will generally be lower than PB lines (10 fpm instead of 20 fpm).

    Does this seem feasible / practical to use 1/2" for the base PB lines (up to bulkheads / ports), or would the 3/8" inch lines not have any significant impact on the capacity to a splitter? I've seen a nominal capacity of 7 gpm listed for 3/8" hose lines. Lines from the PB QD / open loop connection points would then drop down to 3/8" to go to the rear valve(s). The path from the tranny ports to the PB ports seem as though they wouldn't twist around that much...

    Thanks for any input you may have.
    Bubber likes this.
    2015 2032R; 62D2 mower deck; H130 FEL; i-Match; ballast box; Artillinan fork, bucket; Bolt On Hooks, edge tamers.
    Land Pride 60 in. rotary mower. Behlen Country Post hole digger with 12" auger and 12" extension [Farm Star].
    2004 L130 48 in. deck w/ 42 in. Snowblower and K66 transmission added 2014
    2012 X749 w/ 62C mower and used (2015) 54" snow blower (in 2018).

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    My opinion is that you will not benefit from 1/2” hoses, the ports on the PB block and the QDs themselves are the biggest restrictions, and the QDs used in the PB circuit are already 1/2” body size. 1/2” hose is very difficult to route also, and does not bend well.
    Bubber, keane and Yank like this.
    Kenny

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    Fit Rite Hydraulics MtnViewRanch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyd View Post
    My opinion is that you will not benefit from 1/2” hoses, the ports on the PB block and the QDs themselves are the biggest restrictions, and the QDs used in the PB circuit are already 1/2” body size. 1/2” hose is very difficult to route also, and does not bend well.
    Have to agree, there simply is NO good reason to be running 1/2" lines.

    Something else that should be considered, because you are doing this in steps, try not to do the first step (PB) and then have to redo the first step when you move on to the second step. (SCVs) Several things to be considered, mounting location, how plumbing will need to be when you go to the second step, you don't really want to have to redo hoses and the PB mount from the first step to be able to mount and connect to the SCVs.

    There are different ways to have everything plumbed.

    Everything plumbed so that any feature can be used at any time without swapping hoses around.

    Or use the PB connections to feed the SCVs, but then have no PB source without disconnecting the SCVs.

    People do it both ways and no certain way is right or wrong, one just takes a bit more thought is all.

    It looks like you are leaning this way anyway, but I highly recommend the Bucher valves. ZERO ISSUES.
    Last edited by MtnViewRanch; 11-02-2017 at 10:59 AM.
    Brian

    Manufacturer of Fit Rite Hydraulics

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    Based on your input, one thought would be to do a power beyond setup that could subsequently be routed to the valve by routing the 'power beyond' 'return line' to the new control valve (in series), and the valve's power beyond would then connect to the return line pulled from the bulkhead fitting. I'm also considering installing a 'tank' line that will go to a capped third bulkhead fitting so that all of these connections can be completed prior to getting to the valve.

    I'm not clear if there are alternatives for the tank line (to pulling the bolt M807433 and using a 3/8" BSPP to JIC elbow), but I'd be interested in hearing if there are other options. If there aren't other options, the tank line would likely need to be done first or with the other lines so your point is good one.

    The line to a log splitter (from the PB QD) may require six to eight feet or more of 1/2" each way to the QD based on the instruction
    recommendations and user reviews (depending upon which PTO mounted log splitter).

    Thanks again for the assistance / recommendations.
    2015 2032R; 62D2 mower deck; H130 FEL; i-Match; ballast box; Artillinan fork, bucket; Bolt On Hooks, edge tamers.
    Land Pride 60 in. rotary mower. Behlen Country Post hole digger with 12" auger and 12" extension [Farm Star].
    2004 L130 48 in. deck w/ 42 in. Snowblower and K66 transmission added 2014
    2012 X749 w/ 62C mower and used (2015) 54" snow blower (in 2018).

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    Valves with float function

    Related to this project I'm wondering how the float function would work in practice; is it mainly limited to only operating at one position extreme or another? The float for the FEL appears it can be engaged after fully lowering the bucket (which makes sense since you're not likely to need an elevated bucket 'float'), but it is not clear how this would be implemented for a top / tilt or other application using a 2 or 3 section float valve.

    My impression is that the float position on the 12 gpm Bucher valve is noted as a detent at 'position 3,' normally only reached after fully extending (or retracting) the double acting cylinder (depending upon how the lines are connected). Is there a way to implement a float for the 'other side' without swapping the lines using the QD or does this require reversing the lines so that the float option occurs for the position you need?

    Can this be done by positioning the cylinder at or above the desired point, turning off the tractor, moving the valve to the float detent position, then starting the tractor again? There could potentially be some shifting by passing through the position 2 of the valve before reaching the float detent.

    Thanks
    2015 2032R; 62D2 mower deck; H130 FEL; i-Match; ballast box; Artillinan fork, bucket; Bolt On Hooks, edge tamers.
    Land Pride 60 in. rotary mower. Behlen Country Post hole digger with 12" auger and 12" extension [Farm Star].
    2004 L130 48 in. deck w/ 42 in. Snowblower and K66 transmission added 2014
    2012 X749 w/ 62C mower and used (2015) 54" snow blower (in 2018).

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    Don, I'm excited to read this thread. I am limited in my hydraulic knowledge. However, I have a MY '17 2032 w/ PB & rear SCV's. If you ever want me to drop the fender liner and take pictures of the hydraulic routing, I will. I also have the installation instructions for both(Thanks to Homestead Joe) and I learned a lot about how they route it, priorities and fluid flow just by studying the instructions. If you want those to compare your design to, I will be happy to oblige you. That being said, it seems you have a firm grip on what your doing and are likely beyond that stage in your mind. Just figured I'd offer it up. Good luck and post pics for the next guys(gals).
    ,Sleepy- "Living the dream!" -- 2017 2032R w/ loader and backhoe; JD Z930M 60"

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    Fit Rite Hydraulics MtnViewRanch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    Related to this project I'm wondering how the float function would work in practice; is it mainly limited to only operating at one position extreme or another? The float for the FEL appears it can be engaged after fully lowering the bucket (which makes sense since you're not likely to need an elevated bucket 'float'), but it is not clear how this would be implemented for a top / tilt or other application using a 2 or 3 section float valve.

    My impression is that the float position on the 12 gpm Bucher valve is noted as a detent at 'position 3,' normally only reached after fully extending (or retracting) the double acting cylinder (depending upon how the lines are connected). Is there a way to implement a float for the 'other side' without swapping the lines using the QD or does this require reversing the lines so that the float option occurs for the position you need?

    Can this be done by positioning the cylinder at or above the desired point, turning off the tractor, moving the valve to the float detent position, then starting the tractor again? There could potentially be some shifting by passing through the position 2 of the valve before reaching the float detent.

    Thanks
    I'm sort of lost here. For what possible reason would you want to make use of the float feature with an implement not on the ground??? You typically only use the float feature with an implement on the ground, thus you would always have the valve connected so that the float feature can be engaged safely while the implement was already on the ground.

    I need clarification of what it is that you are trying to do to be able to properly answer the question.

    No valve to the best of my knowledge has the float feature at both ends of the spool movement. It is always located at one end only and that end is typically used for the lowering of the implement or attachment.

    As far as turning the tractor off to engage the float feature, you won't gain much by doing this, the fluid still flows through the spool if there is any pressure on the cylinder. Tractor running or not.
    BigJim55 likes this.
    Brian

    Manufacturer of Fit Rite Hydraulics

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    Valves with float function

    Sleepy, thanks for the encouragement and offer. I have a 2015 2032R, so it may differ from your 2032R (2017) since they beefed them up quite a bit starting this year but kept the same numbering scheme. I am already using rear wheel extensions to make room for tire chains, so I have some similar physical dimensions, but not as much heft or ability to mount some larger equipment (such as the larger front snow blower). There are lots of us that have the older versions since my 2032R is effectively the same as the JD 2720.

    Brian (and others), my question is largely directed at top and tilt cylinder operations while using float. At one extreme of the cylinder, you would have float (valve position) directly available (e.g. right side down tilt, or one extreme of the top link cylinder), but you might need the same float function for left side down tilt or other position of the top link. It may be that it will just float / drift over to what ever is the current ground profile that you're operating on be to become that centered or left side down tilt. I understand that the float function position allows hydraulic fluid to move between the two ends of the double acting cylinder though the flow goes through the lines / valve / restrictors so the action is damped. The ground profile and weight of the implement is what is providing the force to allow the fluid to shift between the ends of the cylinder. I haven't had much occasion to use the float on the FEL and only learned of its existence from reading on this site.

    If you have a right side down tilt / float with a left side down ditch you may just need to drop the implement in float position to allow the cylinder to settle into the centered or left side orientation but I'm not certain that is how it would be done.

    I'm trying to understand how all of this operates as I'm preparing to begin the process. I'm hoping to begin step 1 (power beyond connections and tank line connection) shortly once I get up the nerve to pull out the PB plate from behind the FEL SCV and make the tank connection. I don't want to order valve / valve sections or cylinders until step 1 is complete. I've just received the spare O-rings for the PB plate and copper seals for the SCV 'banjo' fittings and hopefully the other fittings needed for this step. I have some more firewood that I want to collect before beginning...

    Thanks again, Don C.
    2015 2032R; 62D2 mower deck; H130 FEL; i-Match; ballast box; Artillinan fork, bucket; Bolt On Hooks, edge tamers.
    Land Pride 60 in. rotary mower. Behlen Country Post hole digger with 12" auger and 12" extension [Farm Star].
    2004 L130 48 in. deck w/ 42 in. Snowblower and K66 transmission added 2014
    2012 X749 w/ 62C mower and used (2015) 54" snow blower (in 2018).

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    Fit Rite Hydraulics MtnViewRanch's Avatar
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    Ok, now I think I understand the question. If you are using your tilt cylinder to angle to the left, how do you make use of the float feature since the cylinder is in the retracted position.

    Answer, the same way, because no matter which way you have the implement tilted, that forced tilt is eliminated once the unit is put into the float mode. It would not matter if you had the cylinder on the left side, in float mode the implement is going to go where it wants.

    I hope that this helps.
    Brian

    Manufacturer of Fit Rite Hydraulics

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