Concept for TNT & grapple on 1025r
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Thread: Concept for TNT & grapple on 1025r

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    Concept for TNT & grapple on 1025r

    Before starting, let me state up front that my knowledge of hydraulics is pretty much limited to knowing how to spell the word.

    On my wish list is an Artillian grapple & a TnT for our 1025r TLB. Guessing neither would get heavy day to day use - just a few days here & there during a year.

    First the TnT. Seems like the go to place is Fite Rite. I'm positive that there's no way I could go wrong buying from Brian, but the lead time MAY be a roadblock.

    In a perfect world, I would like to avoid dealing with hose connect/disconnect. A linear actuator like I have on my old Sears SS/16 3ph or Johnny Bucket Jr comes to mind. From what I've read, the forces on a top link would tear one up quickly. So then comes to mind a self contained hydraulic controlled by some sort of electric gizmo (solenoid?). Don't see any so far. So back to what everyone else doing, connect/disconnect hoses.

    A good deal of my problem with the Fite Rite solution is the location of the valves. I don't like attaching them to the ROPS and cluttering that side of the operator station. Maybe could devise a way to put valve & TnT hoses on a separate "bar" that could be attached only when needed and only the feed/return hydraulic hoses would have to be connected.

    Saw a video where the TnT used the FEL controller to operate - that seemed to be a cleaner concept to me. So now we're into my real flight of fancy. I'm going to need pretty much the same diverter-type valve for the grapple too, right? Conceptually could I use the same value & controls for a grapple OR a TnT? Guessing that would mean a 4 hose connect/disconnect for either. Is this just too far out or likely to cost as much (or more ) than the 2 separate entities?
    Last edited by dianedebuda; 07-07-2018 at 07:35 AM.

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    The biggest issue to overcome when adding valves and such is real estate, there just isn't any extra on these small tractors. Not only does the valve body take up space, the fittings and hose do to. The valves set on the ROPS is about the best solution there is, even the single SCV valve JD offers is mounted there becasue there just is no other place. A double diverter on the FEL controls is offered on the larger 3 and 4 series, but again it's just not feasible on a smaller tractor and have it both functional and out of harms way. There is no real option for an electric TnT setup, they are all hydraulic. If I remember correctly you have a backhoe right? If so then no matter how you cut it, plugging and unplugging hoses is a fact of tractoring-all the TnT bits have to be removed to attach the hoe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyd View Post
    The valves set on the ROPS is about the best solution there is
    I just don't want the valves on the ROPS all of the time. That's why I was thinking of putting them on a separate bar that could be attached only when using the 3ph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyd View Post
    If I remember correctly you have a backhoe right?
    Yes, a TLB, but no MMM. In my flight of fancy, guess hoses used for BH would not be used. Maybe to be a little clearer on my fanciful vision, there'd be 1 valves set & controls which could be connected to either the grapple OR the TnT - not at the same time. ... unless there is a diverter for 4 hose sets. Nah, that'd got to be too expensive and I can't imagine both on tractor at the same time anyhow.
    Last edited by dianedebuda; 07-07-2018 at 08:34 AM.
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    If you want to keep things as simple as you can and be as cost effective you MAY be able to run a TnT cylinder off of long hoses from the single loader diverter you use to actuate the grapple. Just an idea here, no idea how practical or easy it would be-but it sounds possible in my head.

    Install your Artillian (or WR Long, etc) diverter on your loader curl function. This gives you two hydraulic QD ports on the loader boom. When using the grapple plug in your grapple hoses. Install another set of LONG hoses on the machine from near the diverter QDís (so you can plug them in there) to the area of the three point of the machine and tie them to your hydraulic top link cylinder of choice. If you want to use the top link, plug them in and use the diverter control to actuate it. Most of the time using a 3 pt implement you probably wonít be using the grapple and vice versa so while swapping hoses back and forth isnít perfect itís pretty simple and you could use both your implements and use only one hydraulic option for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by balrog006 View Post
    If you want to keep things as simple as you can and be as cost effective
    You're seeing what I'm trying to say as my flight of fancy. Hopefully some of the hydraulics wizs around can say if this is a path worthy of checking out. Could be the length of the hoses would cause problems.

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    Zebrafive's Avatar
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    Hose length will not be a problem.
    J
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    RIP Chris C-Range's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by balrog006 View Post
    If you want to keep things as simple as you can and be as cost effective you MAY be able to run a TnT cylinder off of long hoses from the single loader diverter you use to actuate the grapple. Just an idea here, no idea how practical or easy it would be-but it sounds possible in my head.

    Install your Artillian (or WR Long, etc) diverter on your loader curl function. This gives you two hydraulic QD ports on the loader boom. When using the grapple plug in your grapple hoses. Install another set of LONG hoses on the machine from near the diverter QDís (so you can plug them in there) to the area of the three point of the machine and tie them to your hydraulic top link cylinder of choice. If you want to use the top link, plug them in and use the diverter control to actuate it. Most of the time using a 3 pt implement you probably wonít be using the grapple and vice versa so while swapping hoses back and forth isnít perfect itís pretty simple and you could use both your implements and use only one hydraulic option for them.
    Hey Balrog,

    At first, I thought this was interesting but two things :

    One, I'm leary of running hoses all the way from front to rear due to concerns of damage over time from shifting, getting pinched, snagging an object, etc. You'd have to find a rock solid mounting route that can accommodate all attachments being mounted.

    Two, when using the TNT and depending on the type of 3pt work being done, might the operator want to take the loader off of the tractor altogether?

    Just dreaming out loud here, but too bad the TNT valve couldn't be mounted to a quick hitch / iMatch (presuming you are using one) so it's automatically out of the picture when not using the TNT. There ought to be plenty of space on one of those.
    Kennyd likes this.
    Chris - 3720 TLB

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Range View Post
    when using the TNT and depending on the type of 3pt work being done, might the operator want to take the loader off of the tractor altogether?
    Not going to happen here. Might take bucket or forks off, but not loader.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Range View Post
    Just dreaming out loud here, but too bad the TNT valve couldn't be mounted to a quick hitch / iMatch (presuming you are using one) so it's automatically out of the picture when not using the TNT. There ought to be plenty of space on one of those.
    This is what I was describing by having a separate bar for the valves that was only mounted when needed. Yes, I do have an iMatch. Implements would probably be landscape plane, rock rake and possibly BB. No plans for PTO implements.

    -----------

    So far, you guys are doing a great job of translating my ideas. Having some hope that they're not all that far-fetched now.
    Last edited by dianedebuda; 07-07-2018 at 01:15 PM.

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    Fit Rite Hydraulics MtnViewRanch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianedebuda View Post
    Not going to happen here. Might take bucket or forks off, but not loader.

    This is what I was describing by having a separate bar for the valves that was only mounted when needed.

    -----------

    So far, you guys are doing a great job of translating my ideas. Having some hope that they're not all that far-fetched now.
    So having 8 hoses running from a set of valves that is at least 8" wide mounted on top of a quick hitch and all 8 hoses have to be removed every time you put your back hoe on sounds like a good idea to you????

    To be honest with you, what you want can indeed be done. But best expect it to cost more $$$$$ than your tractor and hoe combined.

    This reminds me of a friend that is in the tractor business. Sold a customer a 3000 series size machine years ago. Well the customer was not happy with the controls on the back hoe, says he operates such and such type hoe (A big Cat excavator) and wants that type of controls on his hoe. My friend says "let's just get a cost on those before you decide that's what you really want." Well guess what, the guys complete rig cost about 26K back then, the controls that he thought that he just HAD TO HAVE cost 28K. The customer decided what he had was just fine.

    You can do just about anything with an unlimited budget and enough time. All things to ponder after you ask people that do this stuff for a living and you get answers that are not what you want to here.
    DRobinson, Ray_PA and mark02tj like this.
    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnViewRanch View Post
    So having 8 hoses running from a set of valves that is at least 8" wide mounted on top of a quick hitch and all 8 hoses have to be removed every time you put your back hoe on sounds like a good idea to you???? ... You can do just about anything with an unlimited budget and enough time. All things to ponder after you ask people that do this stuff for a living and you get answers that are not what you want to here.
    Gee Brian, think you're taking my thoughts personally as if I'm challenging you pros. Not the intent at all. This is just a forum where ideas can be floated even if they're nonsense, right? I've read a number of your posts on GTT and other tractor sites and appreciate that you know your stuff & are highly respected. Like I said at the beginning, my first choice would be to buy your high quality links. But maybe now I'm on your %$# list?

    Have 2 scenerios that I've dreamed up. One is just moving the valve set from being permanently attached to the ROPS to a separate bar used only when 3ph is attached. The rear hose pair normally used for the BH would instead feed the valve set on the bar; the 2 pairs for the TnT would be permantly attached beween the links and the valve set. I don't see this as THAT different from the "normal" setup. Just cleans up the operator's area for everyday usage. The grapple would be a "normal" setup with its own valve set and unrelated to the TnT.

    The other is based on having the valves only in the front, using the "normal" setup for a grapple but having 2 pairs of hoses running to the rear for TnT as alternate connections. With that, there'd be 4 hoses to connect in the front for grapple use OR 4 hoses to connect for TnT use. Additionally, to use the TnT, there'd be 4 hoses to connect in the rear for the links. But doesn't the "normal" TnT setup have to connect 4 hoses in the rear too? So there'd be no diff there as I see it. The biggest benefit is that the operator area is simpler.
    Last edited by dianedebuda; 07-07-2018 at 03:51 PM.

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