Power Beyond.
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Thread: Power Beyond.

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    Power Beyond.

    Ok, I'm getting so confused of the ''Power beyond'' term, and research is giving me a lot of different answers.

    We have a 5115M which I know has a gear pump so it is a open-center. However, the 5115 valve block on the back has an (plugged off) PB outlet and when I search for Power beyond on 5 series, I find a lot of those 'PB kits' which I really do not understand.

    So in theorie; I can put a coupler on the PB port, an one on the oil return pipe and I would have continues oil pressure on it, correct? But then why do al those kits have a hose to connect the PB to the return when you don't use it? I mean, without a kit, the PB is plugged too.


    We have a machine behind it which needs a continue oil pressure and has is own valve's, some one told me I could beter use a PB kit rather than the normal SCV Valves. But what is the benefit? As far as I can see it, the so called ''PB'' on these open-loop systems is nothing more then a SCV valve fully openend, the only thing I can thing of is the oil doesn't have to go through the SCV valve.. Or am I missing something?

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Sorry I'm short on time so I have to be brief...

    But generally there is "plug" or "sleeve" that is installed in the valve body to direct the flow to that PB port-so it has to be looped back to the tank either directly or through something at all time or the system will deadhead.
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    Keeper of the GTT Cookies dieselshadow's Avatar
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    A basic understanding of what an open center hydraulic system will make this a lot easier to understand. I think you have a good idea already, so don’t take my explanation wrong.

    An open center system starts with a positive displacement pump that moves the same amount of oil for every revolution. The outlet of the pump goes to a valve in port. If the valve is not actuated, then the only l continues downstream to the next valve. So on and so forth. The last valve in the string sends the flow of oil to the tank. When a valve is actuated the oil flow is directed to a cylinder/motor/whatever. The “waste oil”, the oil coming out of the cylinder/motor/whatever is either directed to the tank or return, or back downstream to the next valve depending on how it’s setup. Power Beyond valves allow for a higher internal pressure due to a valve downstream being actuated causing the pressure to rise. A true PB valve will have three lines. An “In”, a “Return”, and an “Out” or “PB” port. Oil will always go in and come out the out unless the valve is actuated. If the valve is setup for PB, the oil flows in the in, and out the PB port. The return only flows oil when the valve is actuated. This port get the waste oil from the device.

    Most valves must be setup to be a PB valve. There’s usually a plug that must be installed internally.

    An open center system must daisy chain the valves in series for it to work properly. You cannot “T” into the pressure or PB line. If you did, your new valve wouldn’t work. Oil flows in the path of least resistance. So if you have two devices plumbed in parallel, there’s two flow paths. If you activate one valve, the oil simply stops flowing through that valve. Make sense?

    A correct system will be plumbed as follows. Suction to the pump from the tank-> pump out -> in on valve 1 -> PB on valve 1 -> in on valve 2 -> PB on valve 2 -> so on and so forth. All returns will go to tank or on most tractors, the transmission housing. The returns can usually be T-ed together since this is a low/no pressure flow path.

    So in your case, you need to verify how the valve is actually plumbed. It sounds like you’ll need to install the PB plug internally to the valve and then plumb your PB ports on the rear of the tractor. You’ll need to plumb a jumper hose to connect your PB ports for oil to flow properly through the system when nothing is needed like when you connect an implement. This jumper hose is very important. Without it you’ll deadhead the pump. In other words, there’s no where for the oil to flow and you’ve essentially stopped up the system.

    You also need to make sure your implement is setup for open center hydraulics. Closed center valves/systems are not compatible with an open center tractor.

    Hope this helps a little bit.
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    Ray_PA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterpost View Post
    Ok, I'm getting so confused of the ''Power beyond'' term, and research is giving me a lot of different answers.

    We have a 5115M which I know has a gear pump so it is a open-center. However, the 5115 valve block on the back has an (plugged off) PB outlet and when I search for Power beyond on 5 series, I find a lot of those 'PB kits' which I really do not understand.

    So in theorie; I can put a coupler on the PB port, an one on the oil return pipe and I would have continues oil pressure on it, correct? But then why do al those kits have a hose to connect the PB to the return when you don't use it? I mean, without a kit, the PB is plugged too. No you can't just put a QC in the PB port. You will have to add either a plug or sleeve to the valve to make it capable of PB. You would also need to connect another QC in a tank line, as you said.


    We have a machine behind it which needs a continue oil pressure and has is own valve's, some one told me I could beter use a PB kit rather than the normal SCV Valves. But what is the benefit? I would use your normal SCV valve and OEM rear ports. You may have to somehow hold your rear SCV control lever engaged. As far as I can see it, the so called ''PB'' on these open-loop systems is nothing more then a SCV valve fully openend, the only thing I can thing of is the oil doesn't have to go through the SCV valve.. Or am I missing something?
    To follow up on kennyd's post, if the PB port is currently plugged, which you said it is, then all of the oil flow on this valve is flowing in at the inlet and out at the tank port when the control levers are centered. When you pull a lever, this directs flow to a work port QC at the rear of the tractor and the corresponding return QC at the rear of the tractor is connected to tank through the valve.

    Now, for the valve to be set up as a PB valve, the valve is going to have to be changed. I am not familiar with what brand valve that the 5115 uses for the rear QC's, but all SCV's that can be changed from a standard open center valve to a PB valve are either going to have a plug or sleeve that needs to be installed. Below, I attached a prince valve diagram that shows the sleeve that is installed as an example.

    This causes all flow through this valve to flow out of the PB port when the control levers are centered. This flow out of the PB port can feed another valve on a downstream implement. The tank port on the down stream implement valve must be connected to a QC or line that is connected to tank which will have to be added because the current return QC's at the rear of your tractor are connected to tank through the rear SCV, and these return ports are closed when the rear SCV controller(s) are centered.

    If you move your OEM rear SCV control lever, then the flow will be directed to an existing work port at the rear QC's and all return oil from that cylinder will return through the corresponding existing return QC at the rear of the tractor. This movement of a control lever, depending on how far you pull the control, will lower or stop the flow to the PB port.

    If you do not have anything connected to this added PB port, then you must attach a loop hose to the added PB QC and an added tank QC.

    It may be simpler to just connect your implement valve into your existing rear connections and somehow hold the rear SCV controller engaged. Maybe a bungee strap.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Prince Valve.JPG  
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  7. Top | #5

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    Ok!

    It's quite clear.

    The machine is running fine on the normal SCV valve's and the handle's wont pop out. I do however made a coupler on the T so the machine's oil return is directly on the T pipe (No clue how to say this in English)

    Because some one said it would be better to create a PB port on it, I was trying to figure out why it would be so much better. But as I can see so far, its more for when your used up your SCV's and need an extra valve, or maybe always running a machine on it which demands a lot of oil with own valve's. I find the term ''Power Beyond'' for this very confusing.

    Anyway, thanks for the detailed explanations from everybody!

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    What are you trying to run with the PB setup?
    Kenny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyd View Post
    What are you trying to run with the PB setup?

    A Vss haulmtopper? (I don't know al the English names for our machine's, so correct me if i'm sounding stupid.) It's for topping the Chicory. The depth is automatically adjusted by 4 cilinders.
    It can run both load-sense or open center.
    Last edited by Pieterpost; 09-17-2018 at 12:04 PM.

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