4400 3rd scv and electric grapple control
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Thread: 4400 3rd scv and electric grapple control

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    4400 3rd scv and electric grapple control

    I have a 2000 era 4400 and couldn't be happier. Will yeah I could.
    I want to add an electric valve for a grapple. And I want to add an electric diverter valve to the 3rd function for the rear hydraulics as well as moving the QC to the rear fender like the 4410 has.

    The 4400 has a cable operated 3rd function on the fender. This would give me mower lift and hydraulic top link.

    I also want to put an electric valve for the grapple with the switch on the handle from a newer Deere. By tapping into the crossover/rockshaft feed and power beyond.

    While I do this, should I put a power beyond to the back of the tractor while I'm there anyway?
    Have not seen it done quite like this and would like some input as to weather or not it is a good idea.


    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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    mjncad's Avatar
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    If you can get the Power Beyond kit; by all means do so as those kits are getting rare.

    Surplus Center has an electric valve that may suit your needs for probably far less money than Deere would want for a similar valve.

    Solenoid Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

    Selector Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

    I have the 3rd, 4th and 5th SCV and PB kits on my 2001 vintage 4200. The cable operators work; but they are limited in travel by the SCV's spools.

    Here's how I did my kits straight out of the box.

    Hydraulics Upgrades - Google Photos
    BigJim55 likes this.
    I have more ideas than ambition.


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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Sounds like a neat project
    Kenny

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    I have a 4310 with power beyond in the rear for the backhoe and also has a single rear remote. The FEL is a 420 with a WR Long with diverter valve to run the grapple. From what I can gather the power beyond is utilized for backhoe purposes only. You get much higher flow rate but once you disconnect the hydraulic and hook up into the power beyond circuit you lose all hydraulic to your rock shaft. The only instance where I could see it beneficial would be running a 3 point splitter and even then you would have to rearrange hydraulic lines once you were in position to split.

    The electronic diverter valve is absolutely awesome. Once you get the hang of using it it becomes second nature. The other thing I really like about it is its simplicity. Only thing that can go wrong is a solenoid go bad and where they are located it's easily replaceable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super55 View Post
    I have a 4310 with power beyond in the rear for the backhoe and also has a single rear remote. The FEL is a 420 with a WR Long with diverter valve to run the grapple. From what I can gather the power beyond is utilized for backhoe purposes only. You get much higher flow rate but once you disconnect the hydraulic and hook up into the power beyond circuit you lose all hydraulic to your rock shaft. The only instance where I could see it beneficial would be running a 3 point splitter and even then you would have to rearrange hydraulic lines once you were in position to split.

    The electronic diverter valve is absolutely awesome. Once you get the hang of using it it becomes second nature. The other thing I really like about it is its simplicity. Only thing that can go wrong is a solenoid go bad and where they are located it's easily replaceable.
    That was the way I planed to do it at first. but because i want to be able to do 2 functions at once with the front I thought I would like to add the 12v valve in the power beyond circuit at the back and therefore not use the factory kit for the PBY and run the lines up to the other QC in the front.
    I also thought why not put a couple QC in the back inline to the rockshaft.

    The diverter valve for the forth SCV (because it is on its own handle) would be best on the handle for the 3rd scv.
    Needed the 3rd function for the mid mount mower when I bought it I also use it for the rotation on the rear mounted snow blower.

    Now all I have to do is figure out the list of materials fitting sizes hose sizes etc.
    I now know the P and T ports are 22X1.5 and the work ports on the 3rd SCV is 18X1.5.
    I think I am going to do 22X1.5 to 8 JIC and then to 1/2 hose for the electric valve circuit. ( or should I just use 2 electric valves instead of a diverter?)
    For the diverter I would like to remove the steel lines and use orff hose ends on the adapters that are there run #4? (or#6, that is why I'm here) hose and move the rear QC to one fender and the diverted circuit to the other fender.
    I also plan to put the blower up front someday and having all 3 functions on the same handle would be the cat's ass!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjncad View Post
    If you can get the Power Beyond kit; by all means do so as those kits are getting rare.

    Surplus Center has an electric valve that may suit your needs for probably far less money than Deere would want for a similar valve.

    Solenoid Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

    Selector Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

    I have the 3rd, 4th and 5th SCV and PB kits on my 2001 vintage 4200. The cable operators work; but they are limited in travel by the SCV's spools.

    Here's how I did my kits straight out of the box.

    Hydraulics Upgrades - Google Photos



    Thanks for this! I had this when you had this up on picasa.
    will study this again.
    mjncad likes this.

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    mjncad (10-18-2018)

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    There's a few options for the power beyond. If a kit is available, I recommend you get it. They show up on Craigslist and eBay from time to time. They can be pricey but it makes for a nice clean installation.

    There were two kits available: PN BN19534 and PN LVB25221. The former did not include an "inline" filter; the latter did. One can see the difference on JDParts.com.

    A quick search on Google suggest there might be a LVB25221 available at GreenFarmParts.com. Don't know if their website reflects their inventory.

    Another option is to "build your own. Essentially, the kit "replaces" the hardline that connects the output of the spool valve to the input of the rock shaft valve with two lines that route to a bracket on the back and are "connected" by a hose with a quick connector. It also includes a third hardline that connects to the sump. One could create the same capability with three hoses and some connectors.

    The theory of operation is when adding a valve using the power beyond, one has to make three connections:
    1. The first is to connect the pressure (output) line from the existing spool valve to the inlet of the new valve.
    2. The second is to connect the outlet (T) port of the new valve to the line that returns to the sump.
    3. The third is to connect the power beyond port of the new valve to the inlet of the rock shaft valve


    The third connection is optional, but if not made, the rock shaft will be disabled when disconnected. In fact, the JD Backhoe will not include this connection. I suspect this is because one shouldn't move the rock shaft with the backhoe installed. To be clear, it is my understanding that for a 42/43/4400, to use the power beyond with an additional SCV and also use the rock shaft/3 point hitch, one has to have a valve with power beyond and make all three connections as described above. The pics MJNCAD has posted reflect this.

    I'm currently working on a similar set up if I could get some time away from the office. I have the power beyond kit and I'm going to purchase a ESCV valve with power beyond - probably from a local distributer and make a bracket to mount it. Some hoses and some wiring will make for a fun project. I seriously considering a Parker stack valve so I can add more outlets later if needed.
    mjncad likes this.
    John Deere 4200, 420 FEL, 60" MMM, #74 Front Blade, #59 Snowblower, iMatch, Hydraulic Dump MCS

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    The d03 valve base only has a SAE size 6 port. Is this big enough for the power beyond circuit?
    Surplus Center Says 10, GPM tractor data says the tractor is 8.3 GPM.
    So 3/8 hose with SAE 6 should work?

  12. Top | #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAllen View Post
    There's a few options for the power beyond. If a kit is available, I recommend you get it. They show up on Craigslist and eBay from time to time. They can be pricey but it makes for a nice clean installation.

    There were two kits available: PN BN19534 and PN LVB25221. The former did not include an "inline" filter; the latter did. One can see the difference on JDParts.com.

    A quick search on Google suggest there might be a LVB25221 available at GreenFarmParts.com. Don't know if their website reflects their inventory.

    Another option is to "build your own. Essentially, the kit "replaces" the hardline that connects the output of the spool valve to the input of the rock shaft valve with two lines that route to a bracket on the back and are "connected" by a hose with a quick connector. It also includes a third hardline that connects to the sump. One could create the same capability with three hoses and some connectors.

    The theory of operation is when adding a valve using the power beyond, one has to make three connections:
    1. The first is to connect the pressure (output) line from the existing spool valve to the inlet of the new valve.
    2. The second is to connect the outlet (T) port of the new valve to the line that returns to the sump.
    3. The third is to connect the power beyond port of the new valve to the inlet of the rock shaft valve


    The third connection is optional, but if not made, the rock shaft will be disabled when disconnected. In fact, the JD Backhoe will not include this connection. I suspect this is because one shouldn't move the rock shaft with the backhoe installed. To be clear, it is my understanding that for a 42/43/4400, to use the power beyond with an additional SCV and also use the rock shaft/3 point hitch, one has to have a valve with power beyond and make all three connections as described above. The pics MJNCAD has posted reflect this.

    I'm currently working on a similar set up if I could get some time away from the office. I have the power beyond kit and I'm going to purchase a ESCV valve with power beyond - probably from a local distributer and make a bracket to mount it. Some hoses and some wiring will make for a fun project. I seriously considering a Parker stack valve so I can add more outlets later if needed.

    I hoped that the electric valve would not need the return to sump and just supply the rockshaft.


    I see now that the valve supports 3000 psi to the tank port so it should be fine.
    I wish it had SAE 8 ports on P and T ports.
    Last edited by Ross_Olsen; 10-17-2018 at 08:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross_Olsen View Post
    I hoped that the electric valve would not need the return to sump and just supply the rockshaft.


    I see now that the valve supports 3000 psi to the tank port so it should be fine.
    I wish it had SAE 8 ports on P and T ports.
    I'll confess I'm not a pro, but I'm pretty sure for this series of tractors, the valve being considered will not accomplish what is being described. I don't profess to fully understand it but there are threads on this site and other sites that have convinced me the return to tank port (T) can not be used to provide pressure to a "down stream" device like a valve or the rock shaft valve. It requires a valve that has a power beyond port. There's some videos online but I confess I don't fully understand them.

    I've attached a diagram I found on that describes this. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tractor valve schematic Prince SV.JPG 
Views:	10 
Size:	95.9 KB 
ID:	653390

    I hope that if I'm wrong, others will correct me.

    There are some tractors that the power beyond provides two lines for which the valve being described may work, but I don't have much experience or knowledge on those. A 1025R seems to be configured like this.
    mjncad likes this.
    John Deere 4200, 420 FEL, 60" MMM, #74 Front Blade, #59 Snowblower, iMatch, Hydraulic Dump MCS

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