Added rear SCV on PB eqpd. 1025R...
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    crg530's Avatar
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    Added rear SCV on PB eqpd. 1025R...

    Hey guys, thought maybe somebody could use this info. I've seen several write-ups on adding rear SCVs but not on the factory loader backhoe 1025r, which has power beyond installed. I may have missed a post about it.

    So I started out by buying a rear SCV kit from Deere (BLV10838) which I now realize is specifically for a tractor with a cab. My dealer was clueless and couldn't seem to find me any information on which kit I needed exactly. So I received the kit and took it out of the box and disassembled my tractor, only to find out the power beyond already used the hydraulic ports that I was supposed to hook into for the rear SCV.

    Returned the kit to John Deere. Here's what I came up with and it was about half price anyway.

    Chief open center valve from tractor supply, $145

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...or-4-way-valve

    Hydraulic fittings and hoses, ~$200

    I just plugged the valve into the power beyond essentially.

    I thought it came together ok, 3 point hitch lever is slightly harder to access and valve can get warm when using the tractor but a simple heat shield could fix that.

    I like that it's easy to swap to the backhoe because it retains the factory power beyond.

    I drew up the drag scraper that's hooked on the tractor and had my buddy build it because I was busy in the fields and wanted it done in time for me to get lawn in my yard this fall yet, really happy with how that turned out also.

    Thanks to everyone that posts all the good info on here, I've learned a lot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20181025_123953_1540615808867.jpg   IMG_20181025_124001_1540615836740.jpg   IMG_20181025_124012_1540615972906.jpg   IMG_20181025_124022_1_1540616014218.jpg   IMG_20181025_124033_1540616043238.jpg  

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    keane, Oscar Leroy, PJR832 and 1 others like this.

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    Emeribd's Avatar
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    Does 3rd SCV need power beyond?

    That looks like great fab work. That being said, based on my limited understanding I think there might be a problem with the way you did this. I'm not by any means a hydraulic expert or anything, but I've read most of the threads I have been able to find on here about this. It is something I'd like to possibly eventually do on my 1025R FILB I got recently. I'm sure one of the experts on here will jump in & set me straight if I'm wrong, or maybe you can enlighten me if I'm just missing something. Right or wrong it will help my understanding of how all of this works for later down the road so I'm thankful for any further input.

    At first glance it looks like you added an SCV with an inlet, return, & two outputs for the new rear ports you installed. I only see four hoses connected to it in your pictures. My understanding is that for a third SCV to work correctly in this setup & not possibly risk blowing something out you have to add an SCV that has a power beyond port & a return port on it, which in my mind would mean five hoses if you have two outputs for the new rear ports. The SCV power beyond port should hook up to the power beyond return line that's there for the backhoe like you have done with what appears to be the SCV return line. My understanding is that that is necessary for the 3 point SCV that's down the line from the power beyond backhoe hose to work correctly & not risk blowing out something. The SCV return line should go directly back to the tank return. On the threads I have seen guys have done this by putting a tee in the return line from the factory SCV.

    If my understanding is correct I wonder, could the valve getting hot possibly be at least partially due to more than normal pressures in the SCV or lines due to not having it plumbed with the power beyond & tank return ports?

    Like I said, I'm no expert so hopefully someone will help enlighten me further about this. Regardless, great work & initiative!
    2018 1025R FILB (120R, 260B), 60D MMM w/ Load-N-Go, Auto connect, Premium LED light kit & guards, Block heater, Ken's bolt on hooks, seat springs, & diff lock pedal, Heavy Hitch Toothbar, Edge Tamers & Extenders, Gremlins?

    1990 318, Homemade 3pt hitch, 54 Blade w/ homemade scoop, 30 Hydraulic tiller w/ homemade 3pt mount, Homemade weight brackets

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    Ray_PA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeribd View Post
    That looks like great fab work. That being said, based on my limited understanding I think there might be a problem with the way you did this. I'm not by any means a hydraulic expert or anything, but I've read most of the threads I have been able to find on here about this. It is something I'd like to possibly eventually do on my 1025R FILB I got recently. I'm sure one of the experts on here will jump in & set me straight if I'm wrong, or maybe you can enlighten me if I'm just missing something. Right or wrong it will help my understanding of how all of this works for later down the road so I'm thankful for any further input.

    At first glance it looks like you added an SCV with an inlet, return, & two outputs for the new rear ports you installed. I only see four hoses connected to it in your pictures. My understanding is that for a third SCV to work correctly in this setup & not possibly risk blowing something out you have to add an SCV that has a power beyond port & a return port on it, which in my mind would mean five hoses if you have two outputs for the new rear ports. The SCV power beyond port should hook up to the power beyond return line that's there for the backhoe like you have done with what appears to be the SCV return line. My understanding is that that is necessary for the 3 point SCV that's down the line from the power beyond backhoe hose to work correctly & not risk blowing out something. The SCV return line should go directly back to the tank return. On the threads I have seen guys have done this by putting a tee in the return line from the factory SCV.

    If my understanding is correct I wonder, could the valve getting hot possibly be at least partially due to more than normal pressures in the SCV or lines due to not having it plumbed with the power beyond & tank return ports?

    Like I said, I'm no expert so hopefully someone will help enlighten me further about this. Regardless, great work & initiative!
    Your point that you are making is a good one.

    That said, without knowing the specs of the valve that the OP installed, it is hard to tell whether or not this valve is designed to see pressure on the return/tank port.
    The OEM JD rear SCV valve is designed to see pressure on the return/tank port, so this is why JD can connect their OEM rear SCV in between the main SCV and rockshaft lift valve. This is not turn for many SCV's.

    So, to make my point clearly..... many SCV's are not designed to see any pressure, or minimal pressure, on the return/tank port. This is why many SCV's can be set up to be used in non-power beyond applications, and also power beyond applications. When connecting into the PB circuit on these tractors, the valve is in a power beyond application as the 3 point rockshaft valve is downstream of this valve, therefore, when lifting the 3 point, this valve will see pressure on the return/tank port. If using an SCV with a PB port, then the PB port would be connected to this line so then the PB port would see the pressure which is designed to see pressure.

    If the added valve is not designed to see pressure at the return/tank port, this pressure will damage the valve and potentially cause internal bypassing of oil which could get to the work ports which could cause unexpected movement of an attachment cylinder that is connected to the work ports.

    So, when installing a rear SCV, and you are going to connect it to the PB only (E.g. connect the pressure port of the rear SVC to the feed port of the tractor PB, and the return port of the rear SCV to the other PB port which is the feed port for the rockshaft valve), then the valve must be designed to see pressure on the return/tank port, OR if you do connect a rear SCV that cannot see pressure on the return/tank port, then you shouldn't use the 3 point when the the rear SCV is connected.

    If you intend to add a rear SCV, you essentially have two options: One, use a valve that is designed to see pressure at the return/tank port OR, Two, use a valve that can be set up with power beyond and add a tank line to the tractor.

    It is possible that the valve the OP used is capable of seeing pressure in the return/tank port, I do not know. Many valves that are designed to see pressure in the return/tank port are single section valves or solenoid controlled valves.
    PJR832 likes this.
    JD 1025 TLB (2013) ** 60D 7 Iron MMM w/auto-connect ** H120 FEL** 260 BH ** 54" snowblower ** 54" blade ** 52" Front Broom ** Ken's Bolt on Hooks ** Frontier BB2048L box scraper ** County Line 5' landscape rake ** JD Hydraulic Dump MCS ** Artillian Forks w/36" Forks ** JD 3 - Point Ballast Box ** JD I-Match Quick Hitch ** Heavy Hitch front Weight Bar ** Heavy Hitch 3 Point Weight Bar ** Fimco 40 Gallon Sprayer ** EA Aerator ** FitRite Hydraulics Rear SCV ** 12 - 40# suitcase weights

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    Emeribd (10-27-2018), PJR832 (01-12-2019)

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  7. Top | #4
    Emeribd's Avatar
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    Thank you for the clarification. I was not aware that some valves have a return line that can see pressure in this fashion. I have only seen examples that required a power beyond port & an unpressurized return port on the SCV.
    2018 1025R FILB (120R, 260B), 60D MMM w/ Load-N-Go, Auto connect, Premium LED light kit & guards, Block heater, Ken's bolt on hooks, seat springs, & diff lock pedal, Heavy Hitch Toothbar, Edge Tamers & Extenders, Gremlins?

    1990 318, Homemade 3pt hitch, 54 Blade w/ homemade scoop, 30 Hydraulic tiller w/ homemade 3pt mount, Homemade weight brackets

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    Ray_PA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeribd View Post
    Thank you for the clarification. I was not aware that some valves have a return line that can see pressure in this fashion. I have only seen examples that required a power beyond port & an unpressurized return port on the SCV.
    Generally, multiply section SCV's cannot be pressurized at the return/tank port.
    Single section SCV's sometimes are capable of seeing pressure at the return/tank port, but as always, the specs of the valve should be verified prior to buying or installing it.
    As I said in my other post, the valve that JD uses OEM for the rear SCV is capable of seeing pressure at the return/tank port. This is why they can install it the way they do.

    The valve that I used on my 1025R is a multiple section valve which is not capable of seeing pressure at the return/tank port so it must be set up to be used with a PB port and then the tank port must be plumbed directly to tank.
    PJR832 likes this.
    JD 1025 TLB (2013) ** 60D 7 Iron MMM w/auto-connect ** H120 FEL** 260 BH ** 54" snowblower ** 54" blade ** 52" Front Broom ** Ken's Bolt on Hooks ** Frontier BB2048L box scraper ** County Line 5' landscape rake ** JD Hydraulic Dump MCS ** Artillian Forks w/36" Forks ** JD 3 - Point Ballast Box ** JD I-Match Quick Hitch ** Heavy Hitch front Weight Bar ** Heavy Hitch 3 Point Weight Bar ** Fimco 40 Gallon Sprayer ** EA Aerator ** FitRite Hydraulics Rear SCV ** 12 - 40# suitcase weights

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    crg530's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments, I guess I'll see how the valve holds up. I'm not too concerned about it as I only use the valve when I'm not using the 3 point, and I can easily disconnect the valve and go to the original configuration with the pioneer QCs.

    The backhoe is plumbed just like this so I never gave it a thought.

    I'm having a hard time understanding how back pressure on the return would negatively affect a valve. If it's an open Center valve it would automatically be manufactured to be plumbed in series, correct?

    In my mind the return port on my chief valve never sees a pressure differential. In the valve neutral position, it would be flow through; while using a cylinder with the SCV it would only be waste oil flowing to the next circuit; and if using the rockshaft and it requires say 800psi to lift your implement, it would have 800psi on both sides.

    Where would you find an extra return port on the 1025?

    I'm not disagreeing with anybody here just trying to learn more about it! So far it has worked really well and the downstream valves work well also.

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    crg530's Avatar
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    Also see now that this valve is specifically for power beyond, as I hooked the return line to the N port, and that supposedly stands for Next circuit... The T or Tank port is plugged to make this valve a double acting unit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1540657031790163860701556507279_1540657075209.jpg  

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    Ray_PA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crg530 View Post
    Thanks for the comments, I guess I'll see how the valve holds up. I'm not too concerned about it as I only use the valve when I'm not using the 3 point, and I can easily disconnect the valve and go to the original configuration with the pioneer QCs. If you only use the valve when not using the 3 point, then there isn't a problem because you will not pressurize the return port.

    The backhoe is plumbed just like this so I never gave it a thought. The reason JD can plumb the BH this way is the 3 point is removed when the BH is attached so there isn't any way you could pressurize the tank port on the BH valve.

    I'm having a hard time understanding how back pressure on the return would negatively affect a valve. If it's an open Center valve it would automatically be manufactured to be plumbed in series, correct? Actually, most valves if used in series must be set up with a PB port and tank port. They cannot handle the pressure on the tank port.

    In my mind the return port on my chief valve never sees a pressure differential. In the valve neutral position, it would be flow through; while using a cylinder with the SCV it would only be waste oil flowing to the next circuit; and if using the rockshaft and it requires say 800psi to lift your implement, it would have 800psi on both sides.

    Where would you find an extra return port on the 1025? You have to add it.

    I'm not disagreeing with anybody here just trying to learn more about it! So far it has worked really well and the downstream valves work well also.
    It is possible that the Chief valve that you have can handle pressurized oil on the N port. I cannot find any info on this valve so it is hard to know. Chief seems to be pretty good at hiding their valve information. It seems like this valve can be set up as a 3 way and 4 way valve??
    PJR832 likes this.
    JD 1025 TLB (2013) ** 60D 7 Iron MMM w/auto-connect ** H120 FEL** 260 BH ** 54" snowblower ** 54" blade ** 52" Front Broom ** Ken's Bolt on Hooks ** Frontier BB2048L box scraper ** County Line 5' landscape rake ** JD Hydraulic Dump MCS ** Artillian Forks w/36" Forks ** JD 3 - Point Ballast Box ** JD I-Match Quick Hitch ** Heavy Hitch front Weight Bar ** Heavy Hitch 3 Point Weight Bar ** Fimco 40 Gallon Sprayer ** EA Aerator ** FitRite Hydraulics Rear SCV ** 12 - 40# suitcase weights

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    crg530's Avatar
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    Ya they call it a tandem center valve. I'd post a pic of the valve schematic that came in the box but it was soaked in oil when I opened it.

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    Ray_PA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crg530 View Post
    Ya they call it a tandem center valve. I'd post a pic of the valve schematic that came in the box but it was soaked in oil when I opened it.
    Here is the link of my rear SCV install
    Fit Rite Hydraulics Rear SCV Installation on 1025R with OEM Power Beyond
    JD 1025 TLB (2013) ** 60D 7 Iron MMM w/auto-connect ** H120 FEL** 260 BH ** 54" snowblower ** 54" blade ** 52" Front Broom ** Ken's Bolt on Hooks ** Frontier BB2048L box scraper ** County Line 5' landscape rake ** JD Hydraulic Dump MCS ** Artillian Forks w/36" Forks ** JD 3 - Point Ballast Box ** JD I-Match Quick Hitch ** Heavy Hitch front Weight Bar ** Heavy Hitch 3 Point Weight Bar ** Fimco 40 Gallon Sprayer ** EA Aerator ** FitRite Hydraulics Rear SCV ** 12 - 40# suitcase weights

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