Ballast and the 1025r
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    Ballast and the 1025r

    I just read the sticky regarding the need for ballast. What an eye opener, I haven稚 even gotten the tractor yet and I am trying to learn as much as possible. I had an x728 with a plow and added 4-42 lb weights for additional traction when plowing with a JD 54 blade. I was able to plow through snow higher than the blade, no problem. The increased traction was awesome.

    Now I will have an FEL and Mauser cab on my 1025r and the ballast thread has me second guessing my order. I figured the Mauser cab at 440 lbs could be counted for some of my ballast needs so I was going to not get the ballast box and go with a heavy hitch weight bar and 8 42 lb suitcase weights. The ballast box just sticks out so far. Now I知 wondering if I知 making a mistake. I have never used a FEL before and I知 sure I値l be trying to do everything with it. Weight in the air is new to me.

    Please give me some guidance if you believe I need to change my thinking and disregard using any of the 440 lb Mauser cab in my ballast plan .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportshot2 View Post
    Now I will have an FEL and Mauser cab on my 1025r and the ballast thread has me second guessing my order. I figured the Mauser cab at 440 lbs could be counted for some of my ballast needs so I was going to not get the ballast box and go with a heavy hitch weight bar and 8 42 lb suitcase weights. The ballast box just sticks out so far. Now I知 wondering if I知 making a mistake. I have never used a FEL before and I知 sure I値l be trying to do everything with it. Weight in the air is new to me.

    Please give me some guidance if you believe I need to change my thinking and disregard using any of the 440 lb Mauser cab in my ballast plan .
    Personally, I'd completely ignore the cab as far as ballast goes.

    Here's my thinking: The purpose of rear ballast is to counter the effects of the weight of the loader and whatever you're lifting with it. The rear axle acts as your fulcrum. The weight hanging off the back of the tractor takes weight off of the front axle. Another point here is that the primary purpose of ballast has nothing to do with traction. It's all about weight distribution.

    But a cab doesn't really do that. Because if it's location and attaching points, it's weight is distributed to both the front and rear axles. So the cab is actually adding more weight to the front axle instead of unloading weight from it. At best it might be equal to having the rear tires loaded (although the center of gravity point shifts much higher with a cab).

    Deere recommends fluid filled rear tires (or rear 3 wheel weights per wheel) PLUS 772 lbs of rear ballast on the 1025R with a 120R loader. Eight 42lb suitcase weights doesn't come close to that.
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    I think your plans are just fine. Rather than go with a ballast box, you can easily add more weight in back with Heavy Hitch products and have an option for front ballast at the same time.

    Please see this thread: Flexible Ballast

    Congratulations on your new tractor.

    Keane
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    Please consult your loader manual as it will list the minimum required ballast for your tractor. But... I'm pretty comfortable saying that your (8) 42lb weights is only about half of the recommended counterweight. The cab weight helps some but it also hurts some. It does put some weight over the wheels but unfortunately the weight is high so it raises the center of gravity - making things worse. On flat ground the weight is harmless but on any type of side hill it makes you more prone to rollover. You want all your weight to be low low low. Which is why they weight the tires. As for loader counter weight, that can only occur on the 3PH behind the rear wheels. Any weight which is on or forward of the rear axle does nothing to offset the load the loader puts on the front axle.

    Perhaps you can get the other style of Heavy Hitch which accepts additional weights.
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    Hi Jim, so in your information, if the wheel weights are 50? Lbs each that adds 300 lbs plus 772 lbs for a total of 1072 lbs. I have seen pictures of the front bucket lifting 900+ lbs of weights plus the bucket weight. So is it necessary to have offsetting front and back weight? In other words whatever you pick up with the bucket must be offset with an equal amount of preferably low weight ballast # for #?

    Hi Keane, I have looked over the thread you referenced and applaud your ability to come up with an innovative solution to your ballast needs. Your total weight does not equal the 1072 lbs that Jim says JD requires. Do you believe the additional leverage of the added receiver weights offsets the need to get to the same weight of ballast? With even 16 weights the heavy hitch and the receiver hitch it looks like you would be about 200 lbs short of 1072 lbs. Do you think JD requires more ballast than necessary?

    I知 sure JD must advise on the side of caution so that would tell me going down hill with the most weight the hydraulics will lift requires the 1072 lbs. On level ground would there be a different ballast requirement?

    I really appreciate both your answers. I知 new to this lifting heavy things with a FEL and am going by the old adage 渡o question is a dumb question

    Thank you both for trying to enlighten me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportshot2 View Post
    Hi Jim, so in your information, if the wheel weights are 50? Lbs each that adds 300 lbs plus 772 lbs for a total of 1072 lbs. I have seen pictures of the front bucket lifting 900+ lbs of weights plus the bucket weight. So is it necessary to have offsetting front and back weight? In other words whatever you pick up with the bucket must be offset with an equal amount of preferably low weight ballast # for #?

    Hi Keane, I have looked over the thread you referenced and applaud your ability to come up with an innovative solution to your ballast needs. Your total weight does not equal the 1072 lbs that Jim says JD requires. Do you believe the additional leverage of the added receiver weights offsets the need to get to the same weight of ballast? With even 16 weights the heavy hitch and the receiver hitch it looks like you would be about 200 lbs short of 1072 lbs. Do you think JD requires more ballast than necessary?

    I知 sure JD must advise on the side of caution so that would tell me going down hill with the most weight the hydraulics will lift requires the 1072 lbs. On level ground would there be a different ballast requirement?

    I really appreciate both your answers. I知 new to this lifting heavy things with a FEL and am going by the old adage 渡o question is a dumb question

    Thank you both for trying to enlighten me.
    16 42 lb suitcase weights is 672 lbs, that's plenty seeing how your FEL won't pick up much more than that, and you are close to maxed out on 3 point lift at that point anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportshot2 View Post
    Hi Jim, so in your information, if the wheel weights are 50? Lbs each that adds 300 lbs plus 772 lbs for a total of 1072 lbs. I have seen pictures of the front bucket lifting 900+ lbs of weights plus the bucket weight. So is it necessary to have offsetting front and back weight? In other words whatever you pick up with the bucket must be offset with an equal amount of preferably low weight ballast # for #?
    You are confusing tire ballast with 3PH ballast. True, the manual tells you to use iron wheel weights or fluid filled tires. It also lists a recommended minimum 3PH ballast. They are completely separate.

    The required ballast is not a 1:1 ratio with what is being lifted. There is no calculator for determining X-amount of ballast is needed to list Y-amount on the loader.

    There is no need to over think this. If you attach 3PH ballast that is close to what the manual recommends chances are you won't have any stability issues. The Heavy Hitch that accommodates 16 weights is plenty of weight for a 1-series.
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    I recommend having both the ballast box and the weights. I filled mine with blocks, then add the weights to the top. It gives me a lot of flexibility and comes in at about 800 lbs if I figure in the ballast box and the iMatch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportshot2 View Post
    Hi Jim, so in your information, if the wheel weights are 50? Lbs each that adds 300 lbs plus 772 lbs for a total of 1072 lbs. I have seen pictures of the front bucket lifting 900+ lbs of weights plus the bucket weight. So is it necessary to have offsetting front and back weight? In other words whatever you pick up with the bucket must be offset with an equal amount of preferably low weight ballast # for #
    The wheel weights and 772 lb number I mentioned comes straight from the Deere Owner's Manual for the 120R loader. I'm not sure what the wheel weights weigh but the manual mentions 3 of them per wheel.

    Not sure where you've seen pics of the loader lifting 900+ lbs but Deere lists it as having a max lift capacity of 739 lbs to 59" off the ground.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say that you have to match things # for #. But the general idea is to try to get close to that. I think for most of us, we very seldom use the loaders at their max capacity at all times. I use mine for moving a lot of mulch and compost and once or twice a year I may hit max capacity. So I don't worry to much that my ballast box is 100 or 200 lbs light. But I am aware that it is light.

    I知 sure JD must advise on the side of caution so that would tell me going down hill with the most weight the hydraulics will lift requires the 1072 lbs. On level ground would there be a different ballast requirement?
    There are two different (but related) things here. Ballast is all about which axle and tires the weight of the loaded tractor is being distributed to. Going up/down/sideways on hills vs. flat ground is all about your center of gravity. These are related because ballast affects center of gravity but the center of gravity discussion is much more involved than just ballast. The center of gravity has 3 dimensional aspects. Ballast only affects one of those 3.

    I agree that Deere probably errs on the side of caution. Their ballast recommendations are built on worst-case scenarios. So you have to educate yourself (as you're doing here!) on what you're doing. The more ya know.. the better you can deal with things. The last thing you want to do is roll the machine and kill yourself (or anyone else!).
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    The more I think about the ballast weight issue wouldn稚 it be more productive to not use either a ballast box or Heavy Hitch and suitcase weights and just put a tiller or some other 600 lb implement on the back. Ballast boxes or Heavy Hitch and suitcase weights are just dead weight. There is no other purpose for it. I壇 spend probably $1000 to get the ballast with suitcase weights and the hitch.

    I致e seen King Kutter tillers for less than $1500 wouldn稚 it make sense to spend $500 more for an implement and use it as your ballast? A new tiller for $500 would be a great buy. Would the tiller stick out so far that it would make FEL work more difficult? Would tiller weight be a better lever and give you better ballast? I don稚 think it would look great but what about another implement?

    Please give me your opinions. Spending a lot of money on just ballast is king of like just buying a rock!
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