MMM lift fails, leaves puddle
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
Like Tree43Likes

Thread: MMM lift fails, leaves puddle

  1. Top | #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 372 Times in 195 Posts

    MMM lift fails, leaves puddle

    We were leaving on a trip to visit family for a couple of weeks, and I really needed to mow. It snowed both days that I had to do it, and I needed to keep the snow removal gear on the tractor. When we returned, it was a jungle. I got the tractor converted from snow removal to mowing and planned to mow the next morning. I checked out the mowing deck and everything was working perfectly.

    The next day was a beautiful day for mowing. I started the tractor and as I moved out of the garage I went to raise the mowing deck. Nothing happened. As I continued to move forward, I happened to look back and I noticed I was leaving a trail of hydraulic fluid. Crap.

    I stopped and cleaned up the mess. I determined that the only time fluid came out was when I operated the SCV. The deck was at mowing height (down), so I decided to go ahead and get it mowed. If I'm careful, I don't need to raise the deck to get it mowed. I checked the hydraulic fluid level first and added a little bit. I also locked the SCV just in case I forgot.

    After mowing, I figured that I needed to get the mowing deck off in order to see what was leaking. We also had a big storm forecast and I needed to reconfigure again for snow. I borrowed a floor jack from a neighbor so that with my floor jack on one side and his on the other, I could lift the deck enough to relieve the pressure on the height selector. Once I could get the selector set to INSTALL, I took out the jacks and the deck went down almost to the ground. I also had to operate the SCV to get it all the way down. Then I backed off it as usual.

    Today I took apart the tractor to get to the cylinder and hoses for the MMM lift. You have to get the floor boards off, and those of you who have done this before know how much has to be removed.

    The leak was on the cylinder. Fluid was coming out of the air vent. I believe this means that the seals are shot inside.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift1.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	178.9 KB 
ID:	683708


    Before I found where the leak was, I think I found out why the leak occurred. On one end of the cylinder, the large pin was missing its small retaining pin and the large pin was out of one hole and sitting at an angle. I suspect that this created lateral forces inside the cylinder which damaged it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift2.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	114.2 KB 
ID:	683710


    On the other end of the cylinder, the large pin still has its retaining pin, but it's a hairclip pin. It's not that hard for one of those to get knocked out, and this cylinder is not something that gets removed frequently. When I re-install the cylinder, I will be using cotter pins that won't come out unless I want them out.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift3.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	92.2 KB 
ID:	683712


    Getting the problem pin out was challenging. The big spring, which appears to be there to add force when the mower hanger is going down (it's probably not heavy enough on its own to clear the cylinder of fluid), fights you from putting the back end of the cylinder connection high enough to get adequate clearance to remove the pin.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift4.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	84.3 KB 
ID:	683714


    Using the part of the mechanism for the mechanical lift, I added a pin and used a pry bar for leverage to overcome the spring, turning the assembly high enough to get the pin out. Because I needed the hand that was operating the pry bar, I used a ratchet strap to pull and keep it into the right position. The other end of the ratchet strap is connected to the horizontal bar on the ROPS.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift5.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	105.9 KB 
ID:	683716


    Even with that elaborate setup, there is still an "interference fit" between the pin and the left fender assembly. I had to tap the pin to force it over the plastic edge on the fender. There will likely be a mark, but not visible with all the covers on.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mmmlift6.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	102.2 KB 
ID:	683718


    The next time you have the floorboards off your 1025R, it would be good to check these pins and replace any weak ones with cotter pins. The best price I could get on a new cylinder was $282 from GFP with the discount and free shipping. I also got a phone quote from a local shop on rebuilding the defective cylinder. They wanted $250, but were not sure they could do it until they opened it up. You don't know if the damaging forces just got the seals or also gouged the metal parts.

    My tractor is scattered all over my garage awaiting the new part. I hope it comes fast.
    Kennyd, Tomfive, OxPath and 5 others like this.
    1025R SCUT
    H120 FEL
    260 Backhoe
    54D MMM
    54 Snow Blower
    54 Front Blade
    JD I-match
    10P Dump Cart
    Heavy Hitch: Receiver hitch w/rack, 2" receiver 8-Weight Rack, 2" front & rear receivers, synthetic blade
    Ken's BOGH: Grab Hooks/ Clevis Mounts, Oblong Ring Slings, Differential Pedal, backhoe step, etc.
    Everything Attachments: Pine Needle Rake, Aerator
    Bxpanded: Ripper Claw, Trenching Bucket, Quick Change for 260 BH
    Artillian: 3K fork frame & 36" tines
    Miller Tire: R4 tire chains

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GreenTractorTalk.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. Top | #2
    SnoGoDriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last Online
    10-15-2019 @ 10:31 AM
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    23
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mmm lift fails, leaves puddle

    Hello, I feel your pain! I've been there, done that. Even though the spring in the way is a hassle, I found that it is easier to snap it off and HOPE that you can get it back on later than to continually fight with it.
    The other item, the clevis pin on the cylinder can be more easily removed if you remove 3 Square headed (carriage bolts, it's a John Deere) and removed the bracket that supports the fuel tank and part of the fender. Then the clevis pin can be easily removed. See Picture.
    Ken
    Last edited by SnoGoDriver; 04-29-2019 at 08:56 PM. Reason: typo
    If you can't fix it with a hammer....you might have an electrical problem..

    2012 1026R FILB,120H FEL W/ 49 in bucket,260 BH W/12" bucket,54 inch Snowblower,BB 2048 Box Blade BXpanded Ripper,Ken's BOGH,2003 Yamaha 660 Grizzly & 5 FT plow,Craftsman Rider Mower/Honda V Twin power

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to SnoGoDriver For This Useful Post:

    keane (04-30-2019)

  5. Top | #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 372 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SnoGoDriver View Post
    Hello, I feel your pain! I've been there, done that. Even though the spring in the way is a hassle, I found that it is easier to snap it off and HOPE that you can get it back on later than to continually fight with it.
    The other item, the clevis pin on the cylinder can be more easily removed if you remove 3 Square headed (carriage bolts, it's a John Deere) and removed the bracket that supports the fuel tank and part of the fender. Then the clevis pin can be easily removed. See Picture.
    Ken
    I considered disconnecting the spring. I couldn't see a clear approach to getting at it to disconnect it, so I figured it would be hard or harder to get it reconnected. When there's a major physical effort and/or extreme contortion required, I usually look for a way to cheat.

    I also thought about what it would take to remove the fender/fuel tank. You are certainly more ambitious than I am. My plan is to file a flat spot on the head of the large pin so that it can easily fit past the fender edge. There will still be plenty of metal to keep it from slipping through the hole (significantly more than a cotter pin on the other side). I know they make pins with holes for cotter pins on both ends and no head. Finding one the right size would take time, though.

    Was your failure due to the same problem I had, or were you able to identify a cause for your failure?
    kylew likes this.
    1025R SCUT
    H120 FEL
    260 Backhoe
    54D MMM
    54 Snow Blower
    54 Front Blade
    JD I-match
    10P Dump Cart
    Heavy Hitch: Receiver hitch w/rack, 2" receiver 8-Weight Rack, 2" front & rear receivers, synthetic blade
    Ken's BOGH: Grab Hooks/ Clevis Mounts, Oblong Ring Slings, Differential Pedal, backhoe step, etc.
    Everything Attachments: Pine Needle Rake, Aerator
    Bxpanded: Ripper Claw, Trenching Bucket, Quick Change for 260 BH
    Artillian: 3K fork frame & 36" tines
    Miller Tire: R4 tire chains

  6. Remove Advertisements
    GreenTractorTalk.com
    Advertisements
     

  7. Top | #4
    ttazzman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Online
    Today @ 03:23 PM
    Location
    sw mo
    Posts
    554
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 75 Times in 59 Posts
    I would be curious as to the result IE the cylinder problem

    Normally a single acting cylinder leaking as you describe is just a Re-pack/Seal issue........but .........if it is as you suspect due to the stresses of the pin being half out you could have as noted scored/gouged the inside of they cylinder making full replacement the only practical option.....$250 for repacking seems expensive might be a good time to learn to do seal replacement if you have the time as seals are probably less than 30$ (ie if you end up buying a new cylinder this would make a good one to practice on)

    Staying tuned for results..........good luck

    i am sure those that have a machine like yours will certainly appreciate the good pictures and descriptions
    Last edited by ttazzman; 04-30-2019 at 03:08 PM.
    Tomfive and kylew like this.
    John Deere
    5105M
    2140
    4500
    Caterpillar
    D4Hxl
    416C
    Gehl
    5635DX

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to ttazzman For This Useful Post:

    keane (04-30-2019)

  9. Top | #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 372 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ttazzman View Post
    I would be curious as to the result IE the cylinder problem

    Normally a single acting cylinder leaking as you describe is just a Re-pack/Seal issue........but .........if it is as you suspect due to the stresses of the pin being half out you could have as noted scored/gouged the inside of they cylinder making full replacement the only practical option.....$250 for repacking seems expensive might be a good time to learn to do seal replacement if you have the time as seals are probably less than 30$ (ie if you end up buying a new cylinder this would make a good one to practice on)

    Staying tuned for results..........good luck

    i am sure those that have a machine like yours will certainly appreciate the good pictures and descriptions

    Both of the end caps on this cylinder are welded on, so I guess you'd have to grind the welds off one end and then re-weld it after the re-build. I don't weld, so I didn't give this much thought. I watched a you-tube video on how to rebuild a cylinder. In the video, the guy simply screwed one end off (although it required a special tool that he had built in order to do it.) This seems like a lot of work just to find damaged surfaces in the cylinder. If I had a band saw (on the list for someday), I'd cut it open just to see what happened.
    BigJim55, kylew and ttazzman like this.
    1025R SCUT
    H120 FEL
    260 Backhoe
    54D MMM
    54 Snow Blower
    54 Front Blade
    JD I-match
    10P Dump Cart
    Heavy Hitch: Receiver hitch w/rack, 2" receiver 8-Weight Rack, 2" front & rear receivers, synthetic blade
    Ken's BOGH: Grab Hooks/ Clevis Mounts, Oblong Ring Slings, Differential Pedal, backhoe step, etc.
    Everything Attachments: Pine Needle Rake, Aerator
    Bxpanded: Ripper Claw, Trenching Bucket, Quick Change for 260 BH
    Artillian: 3K fork frame & 36" tines
    Miller Tire: R4 tire chains

  10. Top | #6
    ttazzman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Online
    Today @ 03:23 PM
    Location
    sw mo
    Posts
    554
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 75 Times in 59 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by keane View Post
    Both of the end caps on this cylinder are welded on, so I guess you'd have to grind the welds off one end and then re-weld it after the re-build. I don't weld, so I didn't give this much thought. I watched a you-tube video on how to rebuild a cylinder. In the video, the guy simply screwed one end off (although it required a special tool that he had built in order to do it.) This seems like a lot of work just to find damaged surfaces in the cylinder. If I had a band saw (on the list for someday), I'd cut it open just to see what happened.

    boy i would be pissed to find a welded up cylinder......JDs way of making sure you buy their parts i guess or they just consider it a consumable part......


    Edit to add:....surely its not welded ....some of those built like that the end cap is internal threaded ...or you push the end in and a internal snap ring releases the end cap.....if your curious you could look it up on JDs parts site and see if it shows repair parts ...

    LOL Edit to add again...looking around at JD parts i couldnt find anything but the assembly so it may have no easy option to rebuild.... DID find this thread on here discussing this cylinder also 1023r part replacement p/n or after market
    Last edited by ttazzman; 04-30-2019 at 06:24 PM.
    keane and kylew like this.
    John Deere
    5105M
    2140
    4500
    Caterpillar
    D4Hxl
    416C
    Gehl
    5635DX

  11. Top | #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 372 Times in 195 Posts
    I modified the pin with the "interference fit". It now goes in easily and without interference with the left fender.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2445.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	3.38 MB 
ID:	683838
    Tomfive, OxPath and kylew like this.
    1025R SCUT
    H120 FEL
    260 Backhoe
    54D MMM
    54 Snow Blower
    54 Front Blade
    JD I-match
    10P Dump Cart
    Heavy Hitch: Receiver hitch w/rack, 2" receiver 8-Weight Rack, 2" front & rear receivers, synthetic blade
    Ken's BOGH: Grab Hooks/ Clevis Mounts, Oblong Ring Slings, Differential Pedal, backhoe step, etc.
    Everything Attachments: Pine Needle Rake, Aerator
    Bxpanded: Ripper Claw, Trenching Bucket, Quick Change for 260 BH
    Artillian: 3K fork frame & 36" tines
    Miller Tire: R4 tire chains

  12. Top | #8
    bloodrunsgreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 03:37 PM
    Location
    Mid-Michigan
    Posts
    484
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 58 Times in 56 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by keane View Post
    I modified the pin with the "interference fit". It now goes in easily and without interference with the left fender.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2445.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	3.38 MB 
ID:	683838
    That is thinking outside the frame! LOL
    keane likes this.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to bloodrunsgreen For This Useful Post:

    keane (05-01-2019)

  14. Top | #9
    martincom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:08 AM
    Location
    Brainerd, MN
    Posts
    1,473
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 282 Times in 214 Posts
    I had the floorboard off on both of my 1025Rs last month when I installed the "Enhanced Pistol Grip Actuator" for the diverter. I found the cylinder clevis pin on both of mine just like yours. Rather than a hitch pin clip, I utilized a flat washer and a cotter pin this time. As far as overcoming the spring pressure, I utilize a large Crescent (aka: adjustable wrench) that I place the jaws over the rockshaft arm that would connect with the mechanical lift link, the same as where you placed your pry bar. I didn't have any issue overcoming the spring tension with one had on the wrench while the other seated the clevis pin fully and rotated it for easy installation of the cotter pin. It was an 18 or 24" wrench, however.

    As to the cylinder, I know another member posted about a year ago that he located an aftermarket substitute for quite a bit less. I'm sure it is here somewhere, but the search function is daunting and tedious.
    OxPath, keane and kylew like this.
    2017 1025R TLB & 2017 1025R FEL
    2*54 Mower Decks w/Independent Lift
    2*47 Snow Blowers
    2*Cozy Cab
    2*Heavy Hitch Receiver Hitch w/Dual Suitcase Weight Brackets, Storage Cart, & 1*Front Suitcase Weight Bracket
    50" Wicked Root Grapple
    Land Pride LR1560 Land Rake w/ wide gauge wheels & plow blade
    BXpanded Backhoe Dolly
    MCS20 Leaf/clippings hopper
    647 Tiller
    2001 455 AWS & 1999 455 AWS--Both Sold

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to martincom For This Useful Post:

    9MMMAC (05-01-2019), keane (05-01-2019)

  16. Top | #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 372 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by martincom View Post
    As to the cylinder, I know another member posted about a year ago that he located an aftermarket substitute for quite a bit less. I'm sure it is here somewhere, but the search function is daunting and tedious.
    I spent about 40 minutes searching for this as well. No luck.
    1025R SCUT
    H120 FEL
    260 Backhoe
    54D MMM
    54 Snow Blower
    54 Front Blade
    JD I-match
    10P Dump Cart
    Heavy Hitch: Receiver hitch w/rack, 2" receiver 8-Weight Rack, 2" front & rear receivers, synthetic blade
    Ken's BOGH: Grab Hooks/ Clevis Mounts, Oblong Ring Slings, Differential Pedal, backhoe step, etc.
    Everything Attachments: Pine Needle Rake, Aerator
    Bxpanded: Ripper Claw, Trenching Bucket, Quick Change for 260 BH
    Artillian: 3K fork frame & 36" tines
    Miller Tire: R4 tire chains

  17. Remove Advertisements
    GreenTractorTalk.com
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 1025R Coolant Heater Fails, Petcock or Plug?
    By keane in forum Sub Compact Utility Tractors (SCUT)
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-01-2018, 10:30 PM
  2. Upgrade Mechanical MMM lift to Hydraulic MMM Lift
    By Ray_PA in forum Sub Compact Utility Tractors (SCUT)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-13-2016, 07:19 AM
  3. Never Fails: 1025R - 2025R & 2032R documents
    By tiahuana in forum Sub Compact Utility Tractors (SCUT)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-27-2014, 08:22 AM
  4. Media Library - Best Fails of the Week 1 June 2013
    By Tech Guy in forum Media Library
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-09-2013, 07:01 AM
  5. Best Gun Fails of 2011
    By Brian in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-22-2011, 01:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •