Uhg! How does this happen? 270A Backhoe issues in snow?
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Thread: Uhg! How does this happen? 270A Backhoe issues in snow?

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    Grumpka's Avatar
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    Uhg! How does this happen? 270A Backhoe issues in snow?

    Sorry I haven't checked in for a while. I just don't get on forums all that much. Feeling like a fair weather friend (well, more of an inclement weather friend). Hope everyone in the eastern US made out ok from this storm.

    So, reason I wanted to check in was on count of an odd issue. I was plowing my driveway for the first time with my 2025R. I left the 270A backhoe on for weight. (worked great in that regard). Obviously, I wasn't using the backhoe to engage the snow. I was swinging the boom from left to right on occasion so I could back up in tighter areas. Just about when I was ready to go back up to the garage, I reached back to straighten the boom and got noth'n. I heard the hydraulics, but no movement. Worse, I realized the boom was swinging free left to right. Uhg.

    Once I got back up to the house, I hopped off the machine and looked at the situation. First thought was a blown cylinder..> Nope. No leaks, clean, not a thing wrong. Moved the swing arm and noted that the cylinder was moving with the whole boom . Hmm. Look around the other side under the seat area and notice the bolt/pin is gone on the rear mounting bracket area. This stinks. The good news was, all I had to do was lock the swing into transport position in order to continue snow clearing duties. The bad news is, I can't figure out how this would happen. I wasn't digging or putting any stress on this bolt. The bolt is long gone I'm sure in the snow. I did find some sort of pin/clasp that looked bend and broke. Guess I can call dealer Monday and see if I can get new parts under warranty. It's not a wear part or a shear part that I can see. Just plain old weird.

    One other thing to mention, when I went to insert the other transport pin (raise/lower arm pin for lack of the technical term), it only went in half way and doesn't look like it wants to align. Almost like something is majorly bent. I'm worried as to what I might be in for on this whole experience. Everything was wonderful last time I used the 270 to engage the ground. So, can't figure out what went wrong.
    Could driving the machine a lot without locking the backhoe down for transport do all this damage? If so, I might have to rethink things. I just can't see having to get off and on the machine to lock the hoe each time I want to move it to a different location. Hope that isn't deere's expectation of proper use and care.

    Thanks for any feedback.
    Last edited by Grumpka; 01-23-2016 at 09:16 PM.
    Steve Grumpka of Sussex County NJ

    2025R ( H130, 270A BH w/ JD thumb, + 54D MMM)
    LT150, 38" deck.

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    Senior GTT Super Slacker Gizmo2's Avatar
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    I know the #46 BH will flop around like a wet noodle if the cylinders are not cycled fairly often, the cylinders will not hold pressure very long.
    This makes it a somewhat PITA to have on the tractor if you are not using it.
    I would like to think nothing is bent but out of alignment due to the lost pin and only one swing cylinder.
    I am not 100% sure which pin you lost. Maybe a picture?
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    Keith

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    Superglidesport's Avatar
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    It's possible you could have lost a swing cylinder anchor pin retainer. This would have allowed the anchor pin to drop out from below.

    Here's a photo of the swing frame and cylinder mounting that might help:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Grumpka's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. Yup, it's that anchor bolt set up. #36-#40 are long gone I can't figure out how that would happen. Oh well. I'll see if I can find the parts online. Personally, think it should be warranty. There's no 'maintenance' issue I could think of that would cause this. Maybe, a branch got in there at some point and started the process of pulling the clip(anchor pin retainer) out of place and it was just a matter of time before the whole thing dropped out...

    I'll have to check into the bigger problem/concern of alignment on the boom mast and the transport lock alignment. Figure, if something's bend I'm not going to address it in the middle of the winter. Not much BH work go'n on any time soon anyway.
    Last edited by Grumpka; 01-24-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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    Steve Grumpka of Sussex County NJ

    2025R ( H130, 270A BH w/ JD thumb, + 54D MMM)
    LT150, 38" deck.

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    Back hoes with the "one" swing cylinder, after not being used ( as mentioned) may get some air and get very very floppy, which can bend the up down "rest" pin, and any side to side lock pins or in this case your cylinder mount as your side to side lock was out. Its a lot of weight out there to be bouncing around. I broke a few parts on my 8B hoe before I decided to clamp it tight in place, and use a ballast box.. and the cars in the driveway are MUCH safer now!
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    Grumpka's Avatar
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    Here are the pictures. I'm even more confused after looking closer at the issue. How could this happen?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The pin bolt and nut, with the busted pin end are securely in place still for the rear cylinder anchor bolt.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is what the pin looks like that I did manage to find. (no bolt yet).

    Is this worth bring to the attention of John Deere Corp?

    My other concern is the boom swinging into the subframe and eating into it...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is only after 120 hours on the machine and out of that, I'd say maybe 30-35% is BH use. Plus, how much of that use would be full swing?

    Any thoughts?
    Steve Grumpka of Sussex County NJ

    2025R ( H130, 270A BH w/ JD thumb, + 54D MMM)
    LT150, 38" deck.

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    Superglidesport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpka View Post
    Here are the pictures. I'm even more confused after looking closer at the issue. How could this happen?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160127_143302.jpg 
Views:	82 
Size:	65.4 KB 
ID:	121881
    The pin bolt and nut, with the busted pin end are securely in place still for the rear cylinder anchor bolt.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160127_143253.jpg 
Views:	74 
Size:	48.4 KB 
ID:	121889
    This is what the pin looks like that I did manage to find. (no bolt yet).

    Is this worth bring to the attention of John Deere Corp?

    My other concern is the boom swinging into the subframe and eating into it...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160127_143359.jpg 
Views:	83 
Size:	66.2 KB 
ID:	121897
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20160127_143410.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	62.4 KB 
ID:	121905
    This is only after 120 hours on the machine and out of that, I'd say maybe 30-35% is BH use. Plus, how much of that use would be full swing?

    Any thoughts?
    It appears that the swing cylinder anchor pin was dry and very tight. When swinging the boom the cylinder anchor pin rotated against the bolted lock pin and twisted it off at the bolt head. If there's no way of lubricating the cylinder ends where they pivot (Zerk fitting) then you should spray the pins down with a good quality penetrating lube.

    As far as the main boom pivots are concerned those look like they might be a bit dry as well. Have you lubricated the swing points? Did they take grease? I sometimes have to extended the boom and apply some down force to allow me to grease the main swing pivot and have it take enough grease. After that I'll swing it side to side a few times and hit it with grease again. That area is subjects to a lot of stress and constant loads in all directions.

    Is there not a bump stop at full swing to prevent "gouging" of the weldment?
    Last edited by Superglidesport; 01-27-2016 at 04:57 PM.
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    Senior GTT Super Slacker Gizmo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superglidesport View Post
    It appears that the swing cylinder anchor pin was dry and very tight. When swinging the boom the cylinder anchor pin rotated against the bolted lock pin and twisted it off at the bolt head. If there's no way of lubricating the cylinder ends where they pivot (Zerk fitting) then you should spray the pins down with a good quality penetrating lube.

    As far as the main boom pivots are concerned those look like they might be a bit dry as well. Have you lubricated the swing points? Did they take grease? I sometimes have to extended the boom and apply some down force to allow me to grease the main swing pivot and have it take enough grease. After that I'll swing it side to side a few times and hit it with grease again. That area is subjects to a lot of stress and constant loads in all directions.

    Is there not a bump stop at full swing to prevent "gouging" of the weldment?
    What he said. ↑↑↑ Almost reads like I wrote it.
    I've found, grease does not last long in some of the pivot points on these BH's, maybe because the pins are so small.
    Sure would like to see the pin that fell out.
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    Keith

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    Grumpka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superglidesport View Post
    It appears that the swing cylinder anchor pin was dry and very tight. When swinging the boom the cylinder anchor pin rotated against the bolted lock pin and twisted it off at the bolt head. If there's no way of lubricating the cylinder ends where they pivot (Zerk fitting) then you should spray the pins down with a good quality penetrating lube.

    As far as the main boom pivots are concerned those look like they might be a bit dry as well. Have you lubricated the swing points? Did they take grease? I sometimes have to extended the boom and apply some down force to allow me to grease the main swing pivot and have it take enough grease. After that I'll swing it side to side a few times and hit it with grease again. That area is subjects to a lot of stress and constant loads in all directions.

    Is there not a bump stop at full swing to prevent "gouging" of the weldment?
    Great points. 1) Good call, it does appear to be totally dry. There is no zerk fitting on the rear anchor bolt assembly. (there is on on the front boom swing bolt assembly. Weird. Maybe a future project to drill one in. IN the meanwhile, I'll add this to the check list to lube.

    The main boom pivots, top is oozing with grease under the main plate. THe lower one is good in wet. Yes, need to have the boom in right position to get grease in there. I usually grease every 10-15 hours... more if using it for larger jobs. I just missed that rear anchor pin. Makes me think I need to go back over this machine front to back and spend some time to see what other friction points there are being missed with no zerk.

    There are no swing bumpers on a 270A. There's also several other friction points on the stabilizer arms that have no zerks. Those I have periodically lubed. This was a nice inexpensive warning shot for me to take better note of what needs attention on the machine.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmo2 View Post
    What he said. ↑↑↑ Almost reads like I wrote it.
    I've found, grease does not last long in some of the pivot points on these BH's, maybe because the pins are so small.
    Sure would like to see the pin that fell out.
    Smart minds think alike. I love this forum. Whatever the question, there's always great answer and great support. Always appreciated.
    I'd love to see the bolt too. I think the bend in the retaining pin tells the story now that I better understand. A dry bolt would have locked up at some point with just the right force on it. During plowing, swing the boom out of the way while on an incline or such might have caught a flat spot or friction point, bend the retainer and sheared it as seen above. Not sure I would have come up with that on my own.... Glad it wasn't anything worse.

    Think this weekend, the 2025R will get a good once over. Torque down and all.

    Last edited by Grumpka; 01-28-2016 at 07:53 AM.
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    Steve Grumpka of Sussex County NJ

    2025R ( H130, 270A BH w/ JD thumb, + 54D MMM)
    LT150, 38" deck.

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    For what it's worth, I'd grease the hoe before I used it for any job. You can do that as the tractor is warming up for a few minutes. It also garuntees that you look it over and it stays well lubricated. Grease is cheap.
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