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Dumb post hole digger question

39K views 79 replies 26 participants last post by  martincom 
#1 ·
I am ready to purchase a 3pt. post hole digger for my 1026r and have a silly question. I will be putting in 6" posts for my fence so do I purchase a 6" auger? I know this may sound stupid but do I need to purchase a larger auger to accommodate for leveling the post after it is put in the hole? Or is a 6" auger already over sized to accept a 6" post? Or is a 6" post undersized to go with a 6" auger? Help!
 
#3 ·
I got the TSC digger and 9" auger for exactly that. It's actually pretty important to have a bit of space around the post since your holes will often not be perfectly vertical so the wiggle room is handy. Around here (clay), you only need to put concrete in for the gate posts, and possibly the corners (but most don't). Putting the clay back in and tamping with the back side of a breaker bar has made the posts impressively sturdy.

Maybe some other PHD is easier to use on the 1026R, but with mine I have to be really careful not to dig the auger in. I run at idle most the time, and only rev up when pulling out to clear the dirt (more than once a hole). I also put the bucket down and keep high pressure in the tires when using the PHD, trying to reduce the "spring" in the system. Until you develop a sense for when you are digging in, kill the PTO first before pulling up. In the beginning you will have been too slow and the PHD won't come right up, and the delay of trying to bring the PHD up with the 3pt control will only have allowed you to dig in further. You can move the tractor in/out an inch or so to help unstick the auger, but be careful not to go side to side and bend things you don't want bent. Lastly, a large pipe wrench with you helps back an auger out when you need to.

Good luck :)
 
#4 ·
Also got 9" for 6 inch posts which did compensate for off perfectly vertical holes.

The comments re digging the auger in are very relevant. I did get a little aggressive on one hole and the 1026 didn't have enough - oooomph, to get it out. Pipe wrench and several manual turns later, it was free......Small bites and clearing regularly worked fine.
 
#8 ·
Great point... Hadn't considered that at all, but the diagonal measurement of a 6x6 (5.5x5.5 nominal) would be just over 7.75". A 9" bore hole doesn't leave much room to set the post and plumb it, let alone fill around it with concrete!
 
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#6 ·
Thanks so much everyone, very useful information that I will use. Now off to TSC to pick up a digger!
 
#7 ·
A lot will also depend on the digging environment. Rocky ground may provide for rather large holes compared to the auger.
 
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#9 ·
I just bought a TSC post hole digger and 9" auger tonight (still in the crate). The wife demanded the fence to allow letting the dogs out. I'm going to use 3.5" to 4" posts and 6"+ gate and corner posts. I'll just shovel clearance the larger post holes. I plan on concreting most holes after digging 24" deep. The corners and gates I'll go at least 36" deep. I've got to rig up a decent motor operated gate, so she can close it before letting the dogs out. I've got a wrap around driveway, so I have to cross the 12" concrete drive at some point. The new beagle-weiner has been a hand full. I'm initially going with a woven or diamond wire fence, but I may add a board top rail to dress it up later. I still have to determine post spacing and lay it out. I'll try to detail it somewhere on here. I built miles of four and three board faced wood fences for horse farms in high school. I also built some heavy wire fences on buffalo farms. Good times.
 
#10 ·
wjfawb0, have u thought of trying the invisible dog fence? I put mine in over a yr ago, using my tractor's 3pt, worked wonderful. big jim--good luck with ur fence.
 
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#11 ·
I can second the invisible fence as an alternate. We have 2.8 acres and we installed 1200 feet of wire mostly 30 feet off the perimeter of the property and 50 of the back end. Works great.
 
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#13 ·
I installed a LOT of posts in 1983 with a 10" auger,,, most of them are still a little loose,,,

I bought a 6" auger about 5 years ago,,, those posts were tight from day one,,,

I had to take the time to get the auger perfect,,, but,,,, it resulted in a MUCH better fence,,,
 
#15 · (Edited)
I'm also a proponent for invisible fence. I have two German Short Haired Pointers - Bird dogs and they need to run. I trenched in just under 5000' of wire in a day, had about 3 people helping back fill with garden rakes. It took the new pup all of about 10 minutes to figure out the fence and where she can and can't be. The nice part of the system is you can add on to block off a garden or landscaping so that they aren't digging up the Mrs' Petunias or tearing up the mulch next to the front walk.

Fences make great neighbors when you don't have very good neighbors, but I still like the invisible fence system. No gates to leave open or maintain. No digging under the fence to escape. Peace of mind when I'm at work as they have a dog door in the garage to get out of the inclement weather and the freedom to run and play that they deserve.

I have a gravel drive, so I cut it with the trencher, then cleaned up the ditch with a mattock and laid a conduit for the wire so if I ever have a problem I do not have to open up the drive again. At my old home, I had a concrete drive, I opened up an existing joint with a masonry blade (gas powered demo saw or even a 4" angle grinder with a diamond blade would work good), laid the wire in the joint and used a Sika Caulk to seal it in. Visually it looked no different than the other joints in the drive. The wire is simply a 14 ga stranded wire, available pretty much anywhere... I got 2500' Spools at an electrical supply house.

Its still a tractor project, especially with a cable plow, which if I had know that Rural King and Agri-Supply sold them, I'd have bought one... that was a lot of ditch to rake shut and it was all wide open field. A couple of guys have even built them, if I remember right, KennyD made one up for his garage build.
 
#17 ·
Here's a counterpoint to consider regarding Invisible Fence and its competitors...

Unless you're going to get collars for all of the wildlife in your area, it will do nothing to keep other animals (and people / prying eyes) out. Around here, I have to be considerate of bear, fox, coyote, and even some other neighborhood dogs as potential "predators" that could come into my yard and cause issues for my pups. I address this with a lot of light, electronic training collars (exactly the same as invisible fence except that I use a radio control to activate the collars whenever I need to), and good policing of the back yard before I let them out. Only incidents I ever had were once when there was a fairly large buck in the corner of the yard where the lights don't shine (and he was a bigger threat to me than the dogs - his dropped head and snort said so) and once when there was a rabbit that the pups tried to go after. The e-collars solved the bunny problem very quickly. :)
 
#18 ·
post holes

May be a little off topic. If you want your posts to stay in great shape do not use concrete around them. It will only hold the moisture longer. I put up a fence in 1980 for a friend using 6 inch pressure treated post. The soil was sandy yet some what damp. We just back filled with dirt from the hole much like a power pole. Withing a few years they started to rot. When I built my pole barn they used a cement disk in the bottom of the hole for the 6x6 and then filled with crushed rock and temped in the post after plumbing it straight. I questioned why they did it that way. The reason was for drainage. They said they have never had a post rot with the gravel but many had with the cement. When I replace a fence post today I use the stone in the bottom then around the post. Packs very hard if done right. Let the post breath and it will last forever. Maybe not forever
 
#20 ·
post hole

A few weeks ago there was a discussion on a sub soiler. About 10 years ago I make a cable puller out of one by attaching a smaller clevis and a wire puller for electrical cable (Japanese finger) type. You can get them for all sizes and I sued it to pull in 1 inch conduit with a 855 4x4 without weights. Worked great, also have pulled in outdoor romex cable as well.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Thanks for the thoughts. My dogs are both small. One's a 10 lb chihuahua-terrier-something mix. The other is a 20lb weiner-beagle. I settled on the fence due to all the wild animals frequenting my yard that are about the same size as my dogs. Too many skunks and raccoons camping out on the porch along with the loose large dogs that pass through my yard daily. I have considered adding an invisible fence outside the perimeter of the wire fence to keep the dogs from digging out and running off. I want the dogs to run the perimeter and pee on every post, though. :good2:

I called 811 about 24 hours ago to start the 72 business hour locating process. Last night I layed out the front and side lines using concrete forming stakes and pink mason's string. I told 811 that would be up for locating purposes. I've got to cross the water line, electric feed and a cable coax that's about 2 inches in the ground. Turns out my electric distributor is not an 811 member, so I called them directly. It only took a minute for them to get the info and start the 72 hour process as well.

When I was in high school I built board fence for horse farms and woven wire on some buffalo farms. We used a decent sized tractor with a post driver, front loader/forks, and a hydraulic belltec rock auger. I'm still very familiar with the layout process. When I mentioned post spacing, I'm used to 7'-6" post centers for alternating 16' board lengths. I'm reading that a lot of woven wire fences use 10-20 feet spacings. My uncle had high tension wire on his buffalo farm. I've not seen a fence in KY or TN that I can remember that had stays or floating wire supports between 50-100 feet spaced posts. Most use wood posts with several metal T-posts between them but still driven. My property in particular is so hilly that I'll be going with 7'-6" spacing along the front and sides to keep the fence on the ground. I'll likely use some metal T-posts in the rear where drilling is more diffcult (woods) and aesthetics are not as important. I'll likely add a board top rail to the road side for looks, so I'll need the 7'-6" spacing for that. I'm trying to lay out the fence on the line that offers the least abrupt changes so the top line will look good and the fence will have no gap under it.

I hear you all on rotting posts. Some of the fences I built in the 90s are still standing strong today. They were mostly driven, but many of the holes were drilled into solid or shelf rock, and we used a half bag of concrete around them before backfilling and tamping them. I think the key is not placing the posts in low areas that are not well drained. Most of my property is "well drained" if it's anything.

I'm trying to zero in on what type of corner arrangements and gate posts I'll be using now. I have to find the gates before I put anything in the ground. My wife's particular about the appearance. I plan on 5"-8" corners and gate posts, and I'll probably use 3.5"-4" line posts.

This has been a good reference: https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/documents/pb1541.pdf

My fence layout roughly:

 
#26 ·
The "work", though, is this:

In any right triangle, the length of the hypotenuse (the side opposite from the 90 degree angle) can be found with the formula a^2 + b^2 = c^2 where c=hypotenuse.

In an isosceles right triangle, where a and b sides (those that touch the right angle) are the same length, the formula becomes a^2 + a^2 = c^2 (substituting a in place of b because they are the same).

Simplified, that makes 2(a^2) = c^2

Solving for c makes it

Square root of 2 times a equals c. And, the square root of 2 is 1.414. So, c= 1.414 * a


:)
 
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#31 ·
A very simple way to do a right triangle from a given point (corner) measure 3 feet along a string then 4 feet the other direction then measure between those point 5 feet and you have a right triangle. You can use any multiples of those in inches or feet. Say 12 feet by 16 feet by 20 feet.
Yep. Commonly referred to as a 3-4-5 right triangle. One mistake that you DON'T want to make, though, is to equate the 3-4-5 right triangle with the 30-60-90 right triangle. I've run into more than my fair share of general contractors and builders that have long-assumed (believed?) that the two are the same.

For those that might not follow: 30-60-90 refers to angles. There are three angles in a triangle, and the measurement of all three will always add up to 180. A right angle (90 degrees) is the defining component of a right triangle. If one of the two remaining angles is 30 degrees, then the last angle MUST be 60 degrees. Hence, the 30-60-90.

If the shortest side of a 30-60-90 triangle is 3', the next longest side is 5.2' and the longest side is 6'. So, you can see that it is definitely NOT the same. :)
 
#29 ·
I just want to chime in and say that I don't think your question is stupid at all. It's brought up an intricate and valuable discussion, and honestly I didn't know the answers to it until reading the replies! Thank you for asking it! We all benefit in one way or another from others views and opinions and that's what makes these threads valuable to everybody. I say don't hesitate to ask.:bigthumb:
 
#30 ·
I too just have to add this, I envy all u fellas who has such a higher education over what I got in school. I got a diploma but just barely. my last 2 yrs of school I had my leg in 22 different cast's, and 3 surgeries to fix it then. I have picked a enormous amount of new thinking just by being on here, and --wait interacting with all u fellas, so for that I thank u. jeff ,that got the licac switches used on him for his grammer, I got the licac switching but sure wasn't for my spelling or nothing about school. that is only one of my regret's to this day, not paying attention enough in school. un's will just have to settle for me this way, till ur done teaching an old dog new tricks. 10/4 lol big jim
 
#32 ·
Hey, here's an even more silly PHD question for you guys. Can post hole diggers on tractors effectively drill holes at a 45 degree angle? May be needing to put in some guy wire anchors, and trying to figure out the best options for doing so. I've seen recommendations of using a handheld power auger, manipulated by multiple people, but figured the tractor powered version may be easier...
 
#33 ·
You can drill on an angle, I don't know if I would go a full 45 degrees though because of the angle on the U joints of the drive shaft. You would have to sort of back into the hole so to speak as you dig and drop the auger.
 
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#35 ·
I was going to mention the same thing Kennyd but wasn't 100% sure. I've seen them installed and then bent at an angle.
 
#41 ·
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#42 ·
Ah OK then, you'll want the screw in type anchors so you don't have to disturb the soil as much, you often can screw them in with a long digging bar. If you dig a hole and bury and anchor it can pull out easier-unless you can really compact the dirt well around it.


We used to to use ones like these, but they were about 6-7' long with a 1" shank: Galvanized Steel 54 Inch Earth Screw Helical Anchor EG-54 | GME Supply | GME Supply

More info: Guy Anchors
Kenny Do you remember the one that had the wings that were folded in then you hit the end with a sledge and it expanded them in the hole. They were used in the early 70's a real pain in the rear as you had to dig a hole first and then insert the anchor. But the sure held. For a vertical tower I would want one almost vertical as the pull will be that way
 
#48 ·
Every now and again when drilling with the TSC $480 post hole digger and a 9" auger I get some oscillations from the bit walking around the sides of the hole. This has opened up the gap between the mounting brackets on the draft arm hoop to the boom pole (middle of the picture below). I noticed it last night. I figure this is mostly from the lower arms having side to side play in them. What is the best way to eliminate the play? Isn't there som ebracket to hold the arms steady?

 
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