Another battery failure, 4720
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    Another battery failure, 4720

    The key in the run position, lets's the instrument self test complete.
    But in the start position, completely dead, nothing.

    I've seen this before, and it was battery failure.
    This same battery, first, lasted 7 months.
    And now, in November, it will be 3 years.
    I'm hoping there will be some warranty,
    but I've never been lucky.

    The question is:
    I noticed the positive terminal had a good bit of corrosion.
    And so, I believe this indicates over charging.
    Please correct me if this is wrong.

    If this is true, can the voltage regulator be adjusted?
    I'm not exactly sure if the voltage regulator is "outside"
    the alternator.

    If adjustment is not possible. Are there new and better ways to
    regulate the charging system? Battery charging seems to have
    come a long way recently.

    I'm just find ways to procrastinate, before I try the new battery.
    Before I discover some new, hellish, mx nightmare.

    Thanks.

    Update:
    Phew! x100.
    New battery. Problem solved.
    These batteries seem to fail catastophically, when they go.

    It seems like batteries used to go more slowly.
    This sort of freaks me out, I guess.
    Last edited by stone7; 07-08-2019 at 07:22 PM. Reason: update
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    AJgrn78's Avatar
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    Batteries just don’t seem to last these days. I’ve had very good results keeping batteries healthy with “smart” battery maintainers. I doubt very much you have any charging system issue, it should be regulated within the alternator and they really don’t seem to have issues of overcharging like some of the older regulators. If you want the assurance, put a meter on your battery with the engine running, it should read somewhere around 14.0 - 14.5 volts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJgrn78 View Post
    If you want the assurance, put a meter on your battery with the engine running, it should read somewhere around 14.0 - 14.5 volts.
    Yea, I'm going to put the meter on it tomorrow and check the voltage.

    I found some stuff in the SM.

    Excerpted - Below

    I want to see if I can get a handle on this system.
    There's a highlighted reference to a fusable link on the starter.
    And I'm not sure if this is talking about a fuse in the fuse box,
    or some sort metallic connector out on the starter.

    I've never though a starter went through the fuse box.
    So there must be some sort of melt-through link that I've
    never noticed.

    I'm not too worried about the battery or the voltage regulator
    at this point. I was just getting ready to hook a power line from
    the positive wire on the starter, and a grounding point a
    little bit forward, on the frame. It's pretty convenient.

    But, now I'm not sure if this is a good idea.

    Maybe the best or a better idea is to take power directly
    from the battery terminals. I have some nice 5/16 ring connectors.

    If anyone knows what's best for a power-line, please
    let me know the standard practice.
    (I have an in-line 30Amp fuse and holder.)

    Anyway,

    ----------

    Theory of Operation:


    The charging system consists of the G2 alternator with an
    integrated voltage regulator/rectifier. Charging output is
    controlled by a regulator/rectifier. The status of the charge
    rate is indicated by the display panel discharge light.


    With the key switch in the run position, battery sensing
    circuit current flows from battery positive terminal to the
    starting motor terminal, fusible link, 002A Red wire to the
    alternator voltage regulator/rectifier. The battery sensing
    circuit allows the voltage regulator/rectifier to monitor
    battery voltage.


    A rotating windings (field) in the alternator induces AC
    current in the alternator stator coils. The AC current flows to
    the voltage regulator/rectifier. The voltage regulator/rectifier
    converts AC current to DC current needed to charge the
    battery.


    If battery voltage is low, the regulator/rectifier allows DC
    current to flow to the battery to charge it through the battery
    charging circuit (002A Red). When the battery is fully
    charged, the voltage regulator/rectifier stops current flow to
    the battery.


    If the alternator output current falls below system usage or
    is insufficient to maintain a preset voltage, the voltage
    regulator/rectifier provides current to turn on the discharge
    light through the 334 Yel wire, X6 connector terminal A, and
    the display panel circuit board.


    The alternator is grounded through the mounting hardware
    to the engine.


    If the voltage regulator is grounded to the alternator cover,
    the alternator produces unregulated amperage.
    See “Alternator Regulated Voltage Test” on page 272.


    Electrical Operation and Diagnostics - 218
    Last edited by stone7; 07-09-2019 at 02:18 AM.
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    johncanfield's Avatar
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    Traditional flooded cell batteries (wet as opposed to AGM) sluff off from the lead plates and when they accumulate enough to reach the plates, it basically shorts the plates. My guess is batteries from 20 or 30 years ago had larger cases so more stuff could accumulate in the bottom before reaching the plates. I expect 3 to 5 years of life for these wet batteries. I think the battery in my 4720 was original when I replaced it maybe a year ago.

    For my next battery I'm going to try to find an AGM that fits the space.
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    2010 Model 4720 with cab and H180 loader, MX8, MX6, Frontier BB1172 box blade, forks, bale spear, rear blade, WR Long grapple and tooth bar, Fit Rite Hydraulics top and tilt. 2019 Bobcat E42 excavator with cab & several attachments. 2019 Deere Z945M EFI ZTrak 60" 7 Iron Pro deck. 1998 Komatsu D39P-1 dozer (size of a Cat D5, sold)

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    ddinham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncanfield View Post
    Traditional flooded cell batteries (wet as opposed to AGM) sluff off from the lead plates and when they accumulate enough to reach the plates, it basically shorts the plates. My guess is batteries from 20 or 30 years ago had larger cases so more stuff could accumulate in the bottom before reaching the plates. I expect 3 to 5 years of life for these wet batteries. I think the battery in my 4720 was original when I replaced it maybe a year ago.

    For my next battery I'm going to try to find an AGM that fits the space.

    I put an AGM battery in my 4066R 2 years ago. Size was no problem. As best I can remember it was a group 34.

    Dave
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    arlen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncanfield View Post
    Traditional flooded cell batteries (wet as opposed to AGM) sluff off from the lead plates and when they accumulate enough to reach the plates, it basically shorts the plates. My guess is batteries from 20 or 30 years ago had larger cases so more stuff could accumulate in the bottom before reaching the plates. I expect 3 to 5 years of life for these wet batteries. I think the battery in my 4720 was original when I replaced it maybe a year ago.

    For my next battery I'm going to try to find an AGM that fits the space.
    You might be right on the size of the case. I bet the old plates were thicker too. I’m sure the engineers were tasked with using as little lead as possible to achieve the spec’d capacity.
    I think batteries have a much tougher job these days too with all of the accessories and parasitic drains. Used to be the only parasitic load was a clock
    Group 34 optima fits without any mods
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    Old Pa-pa Old Cajun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arlen View Post
    You might be right on the size of the case. I bet the old plates were thicker too. I’m sure the engineers were tasked with using as little lead as possible to achieve the spec’d capacity.
    I think batteries have a much tougher job these days too with all of the accessories and parasitic drains. Used to be the only parasitic load was a clock
    Group 34 optima fits without any mods
    Have to laugh thinking about that concerning my 37 year old IH 274 battery and alternator drain wise compared
    to the 4066r.
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    Neil

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    mjncad's Avatar
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    My experience with Deere's batteries led me to the conclusion that they are crap.

    I have Optima's (AGM) in my 4200 and X754.

    My last Deere battery in the 4200 and the Optima replacement. I had to do a quick and dirty fabrication of a battery hold-down for the 4200; but no modifications were needed for the X754.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC_0006.JPG   DSC_0007.JPG   DSC_0008.JPG   DSC_0002 (2).JPG   DSC_0002 (3).JPG  

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    I have more ideas than ambition.


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    Yep, AGM is the way to go. They have thicker lead plates with fiberglass mats between them so are nearly impossible to short out internally. Plus they can be discharged much deeper and recharge faster than conventional flooded batteries and are maintenance free to boot so no acid spills in the tractor. Only down side is cost (about double) but they have a longer life span so that offsets that some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric102 View Post
    Yep, AGM is the way to go. They have thicker lead plates with fiberglass mats between them so are nearly impossible to short out internally. Plus they can be discharged much deeper and recharge faster than conventional flooded batteries and are maintenance free to boot so no acid spills in the tractor. Only down side is cost (about double) but they have a longer life span so that offsets that some.

    When I bought my AGM 2 years ago for my 4066R, it was about 1/2 again as much as a standard battery. Any more and I might not have gone that way.

    Dave
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