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Best Ballast Set Up For FEL x758

9K views 34 replies 10 participants last post by  sennister 
#1 ·
Hi

I got a CTC loader on the way. Just wondered what ballast I should do for it. I also use a snowblower, my property is ‘relatively’ flat for the most part.

I have the rear Click N Go bracket. And CTC day you can keep the deck on when you use the FEL, I don’t know how much use that is or if people prefer not to use.

If people suggest iMatch can you let me know what I’d need to get in terms of parts with that ie bushings 8 suitcase weights or whatever

Anyways,,,let the suggestions begin!
 
#2 ·
Got any pics? Loader specs, weight etc. would help. I know they make weight brackets for the 7 series.
 
#3 ·
I’ve the x758
And the FEL is the CTC loader
I know I’ve the do some work it it on the loader side, but wanted some suggestions on the ballast part
 
#4 ·
I made my own ballast

Land vehicle Vehicle Tractor Agricultural machinery Tree


Or perhaps the fine people here can show you how to spend your money on boxes, or weights. There’s lots of threads related to ballast. Check them out, and I hope you find the right setup that works for you
 
#5 ·
If you don't have a 3 pt hitch there's the click and go weight bracket that holds six 42 lb suitcase weights and you could also add wheel weights as well. I think there's a click and go ballast box but have no idea how much it could hold plus it might be a hassle taking it off with weight in it.

The ideal setup would be a 3 pt hitch, I-match and a heavy implement or weight bracket that could hold more than 6 weights.
 

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#6 · (Edited)
Based On the Older X700 series with 45 Loader You should Have Minimum of 750Ls of rear Ballast and that Can be a combination such as two 70LBs rear Cast Iron weight Plus the addition of 4 50Lbs cast Iron weights, Even liquid filled tires with Rim Guard and a Ballast Box with 450Lbs of Material. You Can get away with Less But to get the Best Performance Try to get 750LBs I usually run 2 72LBs Cast Iron weight(new weights are 70Lb) and at least 10 suitcase weight In a Ballast Box Plus about 2 40Lb Bags of sand so I have about 644Lbs. For Lite Material such as Mulch or snow You Can get away with 6 suitcase weights and two 50Lb wheel weight or even 6 suitcase weights alone But for Sand, Gravel and dirt, 600 Plus will really get You Great Performance and You Can shim You Valve to Get greater Lift https://www.mytractorforum.com/12-john-deere-forum/813130-shimming-more-psi.html I wouldn't exceed 1300 PSI thought the trans is rated for 1500PSI You Can then Get almost as Much Lift as a 120R Loader with a 49inch Bucket On a 1025R But You will need that 600Lbs Plus Ballast to Lift something That heavy. The 45 Loader On a X700 series with Out shimming Can Lift about 700Lbs to 36inches High With shimming You Can reach those Loads of 700 Plus to Max Height. BTW Deere does Make a Click N Go Ballast Box if You don't want to Invest In a Limited Cat 1 3 point Hitch :bigthumb:
 
#7 · (Edited)
Main thing to think about with ballast are;

1. How easy is it to remove and put back on the tractor? This is where many ballast boxes have a real disadvantage as they are a lot of concentrated weight in a small, very heavy unit and very difficult to handle without either assistance or a hydraulic floor jack, etc. A 3ph with I Match is the best way to use a dedicated ballast box.

2. Does the ballast have other uses such as on implements, on the front of the tractor, etc? Suitcase weights are very handy to use on a variety of projects and ballast needs. They only weigh 42 pounds each, so they are easy to handle and add to individual implements to enhance their operations, such as thatch rakes, core aerators, etc.

3. If your machine was mine, I would add the cast iron rear wheel weights and the click and go rear weight bracket. Use suitcase weights to max out the weight bar's capacity.

4. If your budget permits, I would add the rear 3 point hitch kit to your tractor and then the Heavy Hitch rear 3 point weight bar and the suitcase weights. Heavy Hitch also makes a dolly cart with casters to make putting on and taking off the 3 point hitch weight bar as easy as could be.

5. You can add a 2" rear hitch receiver and then use the Heavy Hitch weight bar for the 2" receiver with the suitcase weights. You would need to determine if this was a better solution for you verses the "Click N Go" weight bracket from Deere. Use the suitcase weights on this for rear ballast and you have a great set up.

In order of ideal solutions, my selections would be in the following order;

Number 4 would be the first choice.

Number 5 would be my very close second choice. The only reason it's second is it sure would be handy to have the rear 3ph arms if in the budget as it opens you up to a wide range of other implement options, which dramatically expands the utility of and your use of your machine.

Number 3 would be my third choice

Number 1 would be last choice and only if I had no other options. Ballast boxes are single purpose implements and dang heavy to move being so small and so heavy. You need your FEL to move it, but that's putting the FEL before the ballast (like the cart ahead of the horse..:laugh:..)

Note All of my suggestions and options assume using the rear wheel weights on your machine in addition to the number option.

Under no circumstances would I ever use the tractor with the FEL without the proper rear ballast, regardless of the terrain, etc.


I would also suggest removing the MMM whenever using the FEL for work, as its very easy to get the MMM into dirt piles, knocked crooked, when driving on rough terrain, etc. The MMM hangs too low for you to not risk negative consequences. Please note, I am not saying that whenever the FEL is on the machine, the MMM has to be removed.

I am specifically talking about using the FEL to move dirt piles, mulch piles, carry loads, etc. and doing things which take you onto or through terrain which is rough and risks negaatively impacting the MMM. At a minimum, have the MMM raised into the highest park positon when its not in use and the FEL is on the tractor.
 
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#8 ·
I covered a lot of this in your other thread.

x758 CTC FEL Tree Spade

Being you have a 3pt I would go the heavy hitch route. For what it is worth I also use it in the winter when plowing or blowing. However I have noticed that 6 weights on a HH is a bit much and it can become harder to steer. So I will move 2 of the weights and hang them off the side of the Quick Attach on the front of the tractor and 4 on the HH. This gives the front end more bite and more weight to the machine in general which helps with clearing snow.

I should mention there are a few negatives to using the 3pt. Again, like with the mower deck, the 3pt will go up and down with the dump/curl action of the FEL. You have to remember to lock it out or it is moving around back there. Not a safety issue but if you set the weights down on the ground they are not doing any good. You wouldn't have that issue on a Click n Go weight bracket. Also the Click n Go likely sits closer to the machine. While it is true that having the weight at the end of the 3pt arms plus the iMatch plus the Heavy Hitch moves it way back and provides more leverage and more effective weight, the issue is that adds a lot of length to a machine. Depending on how tight to quarters are you are working in, this may or may not be an issue. Only you can answer that. The Click n Go is likely a much more compact solution if that is a concern for you.

Bottom line there are lots of options, everyone will have a reason theirs is the best but don't forget to look at it in your application. For me I woudn't do a ballast box but others love them and have modified them to carry other tools like rakes and shovels that they might be using when doing FEL work.

Also be sure to read that other thread where we were talking about the CTC FEL. I went over some modifications I made to mine and why. I have tweaked the bucket and frame on it and have beefed it up in various ways. There is a link to that thread in your original post. Also I would highly recommend adding a charging port or cable that is accessible with the hood down. With the CTC FEL on you can open the hood but only 1/2 way. That is enough to check oil but you can't get to the battery. If you have a dead battery and can't get to it you will have to get creative. Better yet, just install some power leads to the battery for a battery tender or small charger.
 
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#9 ·
Thanks for all the comments.
Great stuff here
I have a 3 point hitch, so I was thinking, but tell me if I’m wrong,
iMatch
iMatch bushings (I think I need a pair? For each attachment, I don’t think you can transfer them to each attachment)
Heavy Hitch (to hold the suitcase weights)
Suitcase Weights
Rear wheel weights
I was going to get the HH cart also.

Sound decent?

The lock out valve I have is a round valve under the front right side near the hydraulic couplers, does this work as good as a lock out valve? I have it from factory as I have a 3PH and snowblower since purchase.

I was going to also buy the
THRV
Freewheel spindle
Shim kit and gauge (coming w the CTC)
 
#14 ·
The lock out valve I have is a round valve under the front right side near the hydraulic couplers, does this work as good as a lock out valve? I have it from factory as I have a 3PH and snowblower since purchase.
The two things you may find yourself using are the round valve up under the right side by the hydraulic couplers and there is the 3pt limit adjustment at the back.

Keep in mind that the front round lockout will stop hydraulic pressure to the rear cylinder that lifts the mower deck and the 3pt hitch. This can be good. Lets say you are moving some heavy items around the shop and don't want to mess with removing the mower deck. Because you are not going cross country or over anything where the deck will get in the way, you can just leave it on. Well that lockout is how you can raise the deck and have it stay there and still be able to dump/curl with the bucket. Since you don't need the weights (3pt) going up and down this is fine for that as well.

Lets say you are doing things a little different. Since you are getting a Heavy Hitch you will see that they also have a 2" receiver as part of them. You may find it really handy when you are doing some work to have the ability to raise and lower that 3pt hitch while doing FEL work. Maybe you are spreading some mulch and you pointed out your yard is really flat. If you were careful you could back up to the trailer and hook it up by lowering your 3pt with the ball and then when in position just raising up the 3pt hitch. It is still advisable to latch it but I have seen plenty of people with really flat yards just move the trailer. Set it back down then go around and start picking up mulch again. In this case locking out with the front lockout wouldn't let you move the 3pt to do this so you are wrestling with the trailer to hook it up and move it. If you use your lower limit adjustment for the 3pt you can set it up so it lets the 3pt move up and down with the dump/curl function but not go so far to set the weight on the ground. I don't know that it would go down that far anyhow but if working on uneven terrain it might get in the way if too low. This is one of the bigger reasons I want to go up to a bigger machine. I want independent control over the 3pt hitch and am tired of it tied to the other hydraulics as we get with a H2 (2 hydraulic controls). Some people have gotten creative and made a H3 or H4 out of these machines by adding a joystick where the cup holder is. I have considered going that route but I think I want to go bigger.

Thanks for the shout out, but I think I like the idea of something I can load and unload with the 3 Pt hitch rather than putting my back in it, I’m not the biggest guy and my back and neck aren’t great so I think the combo of the HH with weights on the cart, and using the iMatch on the 3PH to back up into it and pick it up might be a good idea for me.
Since you are getting a HH and the cart here is what I do when I need to take my 3pt off (very rarely now). I will lift the 3pt up as high as it goes and put the cart in the 2" receiver of the HH. Then I set it down and rather than flipping the levers on the iMatch in your case, I pull the pins on the tractor side of the 3pt hitch. This disconnects all the arms from the tractor so that the cart is now supporting the heavy hitch, the suitcase weights, the (in your case) iMatch and 3PT arms. Now I can wheel the entire thing around the shop and put it aside for storage or whatever. I toss the pins in the little storage bin on the fender. This is not only easier in terms of not having to wrestle around the iMatch and other parts but keeps everything together. The cart from HH is very beefy and take the weight of the suitcase weights and the iMatch as well as the arms. The arms do hang off a bit but they do not make the cart tippy at all. You mentioned noting being very big with back and neck issues. I also have neck and shoulder issues and this makes the job much easier for me and keeps everything together. you may have to play with the length of the top link but other than that it is pretty easy.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the shout out, but I think I like the idea of something I can load and unload with the 3 Pt hitch rather than putting my back in it, I’m not the biggest guy and my back and neck aren’t great so I think the combo of the HH with weights on the cart, and using the iMatch on the 3PH to back up into it and pick it up might be a good idea for me.

I can also use the same weights on the clock and go if needed. And on the front like the other guy suggested or other attachments

I just need to know what I need to order,
Is it the
iMatch
iMatch bushings for heavy Hitch
Heavy Hitch
Suitcase weights
Heavy Hitch cart

I already have the 3PH

Was thinking then of adding the rear only, wheel weights (not on front)
 
#12 ·
You don't need the Imatch right away, having the Heavy Hitch and cart you can hook it up pretty easy. I just push it up to the tractor and mount it up.
 
#13 ·
That is unless he already has some attachments for the 3pt. He did say he already has it for some reason but not sure what he is using it for. You don't have to have an iMatch but it is so much easier.

To cover his question about the bushings, while they can technically be moved from attachment to attachment, just get a pair for each attachment you have and be done with it. Way too much work to move them as they are pinned in place and not that expensive. I have a pair on my HH and a pair on my box grader.
 
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#20 ·
Hi,

Can someone tell me if this would be a better option than the heavy hitch with suitcase weights and the rear wheel weights combo.
Instead of rear wheel weights I see Heavy Hitch have a dual weight hitch, it can load up to 16 suitcase weights...... and everyone says the weight on the 3PH is better counter ballast than the weights on the wheels.

So would the cat 1 heavy hitch with dual weight brackets be better than a combo of a single hitch with weights AND the rear wheel weights?

Does the cat 1 Heavy Hitch dual hold the John Deere 42lb weights or do they have to be Heavy Hitch brand 41lb ones?

If I dont get the iMatch, but just get the Heavy Hitch and the Hitch cart, someone said earlier just wheel the cart up to it and mount it, will it mount fine no issues? I cant put my back into it, so I am hoping you can just drop the heavy hitch onto the cart from lowering the 3PH.

Hoping thats it for ballast questions....I do have the rear click and go if you think I should mount some there, but if its better counter ballast to have them further back on the heavy hitch then maybe the dual is the way to go

Lastly.....is this a lock out valve? Or will I need to order yet more parts? Heres what I have on order, I dont want to screw this up and forget something

CTC loader
Shim kit and Pressure Gauge
THRV BW15044
Free Wheeling Valve Control Lever M146148

And heres what else I can add to that pending what you all think
Heavy Hitch Cat 1 Dual Hitch
Suitcase weights #amount?
Heavy Hitch Cart
Deere iMatch?? And if so a pair of iMatch bushings

I took a pic also of what I think is my hydraulic diverter, its behind my hydraulic lines (arrow) not sure if this will suffice or people are saying switch this one with a true lock out valve, or if that was back at the 3PH....im sorry guys, im so friggin lost to be honest...sorry
 

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#24 ·
I wouldn't do the 16 weight HH On a X700 series 672 is way to much weight for the 450Lb 3 point hitch capacity I Only over Load Mine By 10 to 20Lbs if You add In the weight of the weight Box and I-Match. That why Deere says to use a combination Because the 3 point Is rated at 450Lbs.The 3 point On the X700 series Can safely Pick Up about 500Lbs :bigthumb:
 
#22 ·
So do I need another lock out valve or diverter or am I all set with this?

So if I max out at 450 lbs on the 3PH I wonder if I can add more weights on the Click-N-Go bracket....that’s if it’ll fit with the hitch on? Anyone know

So given what you said then I still need to add rear wheel weights, what weight should I add? I think there’s cast iron (70) and plastic fillled (50)

I wasn’t going to add front wheel weights at all, unless someone suggests otherwise
 
#25 ·
If it were me and I had no plans to upgrade to a larger machine, then I would just do the single row HH.

If you thought you would at some point go with a bigger machine (1 or 2 series) then I would consider the two row but don't max it out of weights as others mentioned. It would let you run the bigger HH on a bigger machine by maxing it out later.

The difference between 41# and 42# suitcase weights is the 41# are generic from china and weigh 1 # less. The 42# are John Deere brand weights and have an extra pound to them. Maybe they use a heavier type of steel. They are the same basic size and weight. The Deere ones have the JD logo cast in them but are more expensive.

The valve you took a photo of is the lockout for the Rock Shaft so that will slow down the movement of the 3pt/mower when trying to cycle dump/curl function. As mentioned, it doesn't stop the flow it just restricts it. This will also make the dump/curl more responsive. If you want to stop it you need to turn that lower limit stop which is the threaded rod with the spring pin through the end on the back of the tractor. Raise it up all the way and turn it so the limit is all the way up.

Looking at your parts list, it appears you have everything needed.

As for wheel weights vs Click N Go vs 3pt. You are right that the further back the weight is the better it is. So 3pt is better than Click N Go, Click N Go is better than wheel weights. Wheel weights are better than no weight at all. The only weights that can be combined are 3pt and wheel weights or Click N Go and wheel weights.

Personally I use fluid filled tires and Heavy Hitch on 3pt. The draw back is as I mentioned before where you have a longer machine which means it doesn't fit in many places. Click N Go makes for a little tighter machine. Normally this really doesn't matter much. A week ago I was in the new garage working on leveling the dirt floor starting to get ready for insulation and heating loops. The 3pt was getting in the way at times. I could have taken it off. While I was doing FEL work, I wasn't carrying anything, just back dragging. I just delt with it.
 
#26 ·
I have an x738 with a CTC loader. Just only spent $30 on windshield washer fluid rated at -32 degrees to liquid fill my rear tires. The filled tires provide enough extra weight when using the loader when hauling driveway rock. I do have an click n go bracket with 6 suitcase weights. I only add them on when I need the extra traction for plowing snow or digging in dirt.
 
#27 ·
So I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the following

Heavy Hitch Super Duty
Heavy Hitch Cart

8x42lb suitcase weights
iMatch
2x72lb Cast Iron Wheel Weights

This all adds about 550lbs
Deere mechanics didn’t think it was a good idea to add more than 72lb per rear wheel
 
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#29 ·
Well The Deere & Tuff-Torq test engineers would differ with the Dealer Mechanics On wheel weights You can add a extra 100 Lbs to each side if You want it's not going to hurt anything. But You'll know weather You need More weight once You start using the Loader 550lbs Might be Perfect for Your Intended uses. I Know In the Past with the X485 & 45 Loader I did a lot of Loader work with Just the Ballast Box On and wishing I had wheel weights when Moving Gravel But I was able to dump the fully Loaded Bucket of Gravel over a 4ft fence with a Non shimmed Loader:bigthumb:
 
#28 · (Edited)
This is my 420’s normal setup. It includes 22 gallons of rimguard. 108lbs of wheel weights, 336 in suitcase weights, for a total around 686.



Occasionally I add a couple hundred more for big lifts.

You can easily and safely add windshield washer fluid for another 150-170lbs if the rear feels even a little light.
 
#30 ·
Here is my setup. I have 8 suitcase weights and the 50 lb wheel weight.
 

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#34 ·
Guys, I just got the THRV installed, and shimmed the hydraulics.
I just have to mount the CTC Loader now..... just a quick question....

I have the 3 point hitch, the iMatch, and 8 suitcase weights and 2 rear wheel weights......

However..... just wanted to ask....
Ive to dig out an area of soil 3-4 feet deep, below my foot path for a slab for granite steps......for this job I was going to get down in the hole and just dig the dirt into the loader with a shovel, I dont think I can use the loader to dig downward, ......I am then just going to drive it off and dump it into a pile in my yard to tackle another day......
so for this job,
Do I need to remove the deck?
I have the Click-N-Go bracket, I wonder could I load them with suitcase weights and just use the loader for now...
If not and I have to do the whole 3PH install, and heavy hitch, and iMatch etc....its just itll take a few hours and we just need to transport dirt right now, not use it for digging.....

My friend who is helping me needs to travel tomorrow night so I dont have the time right now to install the FEL, the whole 9 yards of the 3PH, the heavy hitch, the imatch etc etc.....

If you guys use just the suitcase weights for now on the Click-N-Go for dumping dirt just let me know.....level ground...
 
#35 · (Edited)
You can dig down with the FEL. I was doing it the other day digging out a footing from and old deck. Of course what you are digging in will dictate how well it works. The way I do it is angle the bucket down a bit. Then as I am driving the boom arms down pull forward. This will lift the front wheels off the ground. Hit your diff lock and you should have enough angle to keep driving the bucket down in the ground. The hole you can dig will have a ramp going down so you will likely need to go back with a shovel but you can get a lot of it out with the FEL and some practice.

If you are doing any digging or work on rough ground take the deck off.

Did you get your Heavy Hitch yet? I didn't see you mention that. For now if you have the click and go bracket for the weights that is fine. Anything is better than nothing. If you don't have a way to mount the ballast and opt to get in the hole and just load the bucket, then I would keep it 1/2 a bucket of dirt or less without ballast.

EDIT: just reread your post you do have the Heavy Hitch but don't have everything set up. I don't have an iMatch, I have the cheap Harbor Freight version but there isn't much to set up. Just put the bushings on the HH and adjust the top hook on the iMatch. I think you had the 3pt before right so you have all the rock shaft stuff sorted out already. That is the hard work. If not you might want to look into getting that setup before you get the fender back on. I have never done that as the dealer did it for us but I think someone has mentioned in the past it is easier from the top for parts of the initial 3pt install. I think you have that done already though.
 
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