Backhoe can't push tractor forward
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    Backhoe can't push tractor forward

    My backhoe won't push the tractor forward when I need to move. It's in neutral and rpm's are around 2300. I'm on flat ground. It was fine a couple days ago. Backhoe seems to be weak digging in ground that was tilled a year ago. I'm thinking I'm loosing pressure/flow. No leaks anywhere. Before I freak out and think my pump is going bad, what else can I look at. Hydraulic fluid is full, a little over actually. 2014 1025r with under 200 hrs. Hydraulic oil, screen and filter done at 100 hrs. Thanks

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    Run around and disconnect/reconnect all of your hydro fittings before doing anything else. Check to make sure they are clean while you're doing it.
    HydroHarold, rtgt, 800REV and 1 others like this.
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    It seems like flow is being released by a pressure relief valve. When I put the arms of the backhoe Down and raise the tractor, they loose the pressure in them. I can't even raise the front end of the tractor off the ground withe the FEL. I'm definitely loosing some flow to a bypass of some kind.

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    wentonbrown's Avatar
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    Before you panic. Put everything up and in its storage position. Pin up the back hoe up so it doesn't drift down on you, make sure it's cold and check your fluid levels again. Also do what JimR said and go around and disconnect the hoses to the FEL and BH and clean and reconnect. How much over the fill line is it and it sounds like you may have some air in system. Have you seen any obvious puddles under the machine?
    Last edited by wentonbrown; 05-31-2017 at 02:48 PM.
    1025r with FILB, 60MMM, BH
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    I would put a pressure gauge at one of the scv's for the loader and test the pressure with the backhoe plugged in and with the backhoe bypassed. If you loop the power beyond to bypass the hoe do you hear any sounds of the hydraulic system straining?
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentonbrown View Post
    Before you panic. Put everything up and in its storage position. Pin up the back hoe up so it doesn't drift down on you, make sure it's cold and check your fluid levels again. Also do what JimR said and go around and disconnect the hoses to the FEL and BH and clean and reconnect. How much over the fill line is it and it sounds like you may have some air in system. Have you seen any obvious puddles under the machine?
    It's about 1/2" over the full line when warm. I should drain a little, but it's been like that for awhile now. It was fine a couple days ago and I haven't hooked or unhooked any attachments. No puddles or drips under machine. I do know if I raise the hoe to home position, drive to the backyard and back, the hoe has already sagged enough that it bangs, due to the loss of pressure. I'll try unhooking everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
    I would put a pressure gauge at one of the scv's for the loader and test the pressure with the backhoe plugged in and with the backhoe bypassed. If you loop the power beyond to bypass the hoe do you hear any sounds of the hydraulic system straining?
    Do you know how much pressure it should read. I would need to make sure I get a high enough gauge.

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    I believe 2000 psi. Gage should be 3000psi to be safe. Do you see any signs of airiation after you use it a while such as foamy hydraulic fluid?
    Also when implements such as your hoe or the loader have their controls in their normal position, that is you are not operating the valves, then the trapped fluid in the cylinders is what is responsible for the position of the implement being held in place or "up".
    My first impression when you described the drooping and loss of force was that your cylinder piston seals were leaking through at a significant pace, but your report of a loss of hydraulic force in the whole unit puzzles that analysis. This is a relatively new machine, warranty situation or do you prefer to handle things yourself?
    Last edited by Jeff B; 05-31-2017 at 09:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 800REV View Post
    It's about 1/2" over the full line when warm. I should drain a little, but it's been like that for awhile now. It was fine a couple days ago and I haven't hooked or unhooked any attachments. No puddles or drips under machine. I do know if I raise the hoe to home position, drive to the backyard and back, the hoe has already sagged enough that it bangs, due to the loss of pressure. I'll try unhooking everything.

    Do you know how much pressure it should read. I would need to make sure I get a high enough gauge.
    My BH loses pressure like that as soon as I take the pin out. I just reach around and pull the lever to keep bringing it back up. The hydraulic system doesn't have enough a big enough pump to keep the pressure built up to keep the backhoe in the raised position with the pin out. They all do that. But that doesn't seem to be what is wrong with yours. Did you unhook and rehook everything and try it again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by wentonbrown View Post
    My BH loses pressure like that as soon as I take the pin out. I just reach around and pull the lever to keep bringing it back up. The hydraulic system doesn't have enough a big enough pump to keep the pressure built up to keep the backhoe in the raised position with the pin out. They all do that. But that doesn't seem to be what is wrong with yours. Did you unhook and rehook everything and try it again?
    I just want to suggest that if pump pressure or volume had anything to do with keeping a backhoe or loader raised, then shutting off the tractor would result in them dropping straight to the ground. With these open center hydraulic valve systems when the valve is let go and in its normal position the system pressure flows straight through the valve and returns to tank. The cylinder ports are blocked with solid sections of the spool.
    If dropping happens the only leak path is across the piston of a cylinder allowing fluid to leave one end of the cylinder and enter the other, or the very tight tolerance (.0002) between the valve spool and the valve body has worn larger. Barring external leaks anyway.
    Hope I'm not coming off like I'm being confrontational but this is something I strongly feel I have a decent understanding of.
    rtgt, BigJim55, Ray_PA and 2 others like this.
    1025R FILB, vintage: 2015
    54D MM mowing deck
    Imatch hitch
    2 inch receiver for three point
    "18" cart
    Piranha Tooth Bar
    Ken's hooks and differential lock pedal
    Artillian 36" forks
    Stihl equipment: Saws; MS261C, MS462C, MS661RCM and Blower; BR600 and Trimmer; FS70R and Hedge Cutter; HL 56K and Pressure Washer; RB400
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    wentonbrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
    I just want to suggest that if pump pressure or volume had anything to do with keeping a backhoe or loader raised, then shutting off the tractor would result in them dropping straight to the ground. With these open center hydraulic valve systems when the valve is let go and in its normal position the system pressure flows straight through the valve and returns to tank. The cylinder ports are blocked with solid sections of the spool.
    If dropping happens the only leak path is across the piston of a cylinder allowing fluid to leave one end of the cylinder and enter the other, or the very tight tolerance (.0002) between the valve spool and the valve body has worn larger. Barring external leaks anyway.
    Hope I'm not coming off like I'm being confrontational but this is something I strongly feel I have a decent understanding of.
    I know what you are saying, and you are right if the tolerances are out then it won't work either but what I am saying is these smaller machines don't have big enough pumps on them for the BH. Even when it was new the backhoe would bleed off and I called the dealer about it and I was told the same thing I am saying now.

    The pump has everything to do with it. You have to have equal pressure on both sides of the valve to raise and lower the attachments. That's how it all works. There is always pressure on the cylinders so that when you shut it off things just don't fall. That is part of the reason when taking off or putting on the FEL or the BH you wiggle the joysticks to make sure all the pressure is out of the lines so that it is easier to hook or unhook the lines. Plus it helps in not making a big mess with the hydraulic oil shooting out when you disconnect the lines. When the tractor is running and you are driving it around and using it the system doesn't have enough pressure to hold everything in place. Over time even the bigger equipment will wear out and things start to bleed off is the term we use. There are different threads on here that talk about outriggers and the BH doing the same thing. My Outrigger seal got some dirt in it and bleeds off overnight but I just deal with it. The BH will do the same. Even with it pinned and driving it around the BH will not stay fully raised and will bounce, and pinned over night it will bleed off and be resting on the pin when you go to use it the next day. The weight of the boom causes it to do that. There isn't anything you can really do about it. I know what you are saying and the safety systems built into the cylinders won't just let them fall. What we are saying is he might have air in the system or possibly dirt got into a connector and a quick fix is to disconnect everything, clean it and put it all back together and give her a whirl..if that doesn't work than there is something wrong with his system and a call to the dealer may be in order.
    BigJim55 and 800REV like this.
    1025r with FILB, 60MMM, BH
    Frontier BB48
    County line 5ft rake
    Ken's seat springs
    BH steps
    My design cab step
    WR Long Flat toothbar
    Titan JDQA with 6ft plow

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