1025 MMM cut height and deck scalp theories
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    cheesetrain's Avatar
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    1025 MMM cut height and deck scalp theories

    Bear with me on this thread. What I am about to post are just theories as to why 1). Some 1 series users are not able to get the 4" height of cut that deere lists the 1 series as getting and 2). Scalp issues with the 1 series MMM, particualriy the 60"

    First off, I have a 1025r with the 60" MMM with the mulch kit installed. Tractor was delivered in June. I have done no adjustment on the deck so the height settings on my deck are obtained with dealer setup. With my deck in the lock position, the photo on the left shows the height that my deck is at. As you can see it's just shy of 5".

    We normally mow two notches down from lock which you can see in the middle picture is a height of about 3 3/4". So I can easily get the 1-4" height that Deere claims for the 1 series.

    My neighbor commented about how high I mow the grass and that I should cut it lower in the past. Yesterday when I mowed I got to thinking about this. I usually just lower the anti scalp wheels until the lynch pin hits. This lowers the wheels down obviously but not to the recommended 3/8" clearance that shows on the sticker on the deck and in the manual. I didn't worry about it, new tractor, will play. I wasn't looking for a golf course cut, just not taking 5-9 hours to mow. My neighbor said it took him over a year to get his anti scalp wheels set correctly. He was to the point of trading in his X728 for a X758 with the 54" deck. After his deck adjustments he doesn't get hardly any scalp and his yard when mowed looks like a golf course now.

    I started to experiment yesterday and found out that as one that can mow at a cut height of greater than 3", I run into another problem. I removed the lynch pins and lowered the anti scalp wheels down as far as they will go. As you can see from the picture on the right, I am no where close to the 3/8" clearance that the anti scalp wheels are supposed to be set at, but I have no more holes to use in the adjustment. My neighbor and I did some measuring and it appears that the shafts on the wheels would need to be about 4" longer and have three more holes in order to get the 3/8" height on the anti scalp wheels. Having the brackets the wheels mount in be straight out from the deck and parallel with the ground would gain some extra adjustment as well.

    So theory one is that the 4" cut height can be obtained, but you can't set the anti scalp wheels low enough to properly cut at the 4" height. The shaft on the anti scalp wheels isn't long enough. Could this be why some users have the scalping issues? I measured the anti scalp wheels on my neighbors X728 and they are the same length as mine. He has his deck set to mow at 3 1/4" height. The X700 series has inch increments on the cut height knob.

    Theory number two ties into theory number one. If you read the manual and look at the sticker on the deck itself, it shows that the pins placed in the top hole of the anti scalp wheels is 3". OK. Those of you that can't get a cut height greater than three inches, what are the chances that the deck was setup as follows: Lower anti scalp wheels down and lock in lowest position (3" according to sticker). Lower mower deck until the 3/8" clearance between anti scalp wheels and hard surface is achieved. Set this as the max cut height on the deck.

    I am no expert by any means and by this thread I don't want to deter anybody from buying a 1 series as I love the tractor. These are just theories about some of the complaints users of the 1 series tractors have when using a mid mount mower. I plan on giving the dealer a call tomorrow just to run it by him. Maybe the 2 series or 3 series anti scalp wheels have a longer shaft and will swap over? Maybe I need to lower my mower deck and cut lower? I did check the deck and it is set up correctly from front to back and it is level from side to side. Again, these are just theories as to why some users have the issues with the decks on the 1 series.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails photo 3.JPG   photo 2.JPG   photo 1.JPG  
    Last edited by cheesetrain; 09-01-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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    cheesetrain's Avatar
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    For comparison, here are a couple pictures of my neighbors yard. Mowed yesterday.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1409594905.920032.jpg 
Views:	133 
Size:	420.8 KB 
ID:	32270

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1409594917.217752.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	493.4 KB 
ID:	32271


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    Last edited by cheesetrain; 09-01-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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    Cool

    Guys,

    I've noticed that this year I am achieving a more even cut (much less scalping on the downhill side when traversing a slope). The only thing I'm doing differently is I'm mowing at a slower ground speed while still keeping the PTO speed around 2,000 RPM. I also cut my grass fairly high (a click below the lock setting). Perhaps this information will be of help to someone who is having major scalping issues.
    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesetrain View Post
    For comparison, here are a couple pictures if my neighbors yard. Mowed yesterday.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1409594905.920032.jpg 
Views:	133 
Size:	420.8 KB 
ID:	32270

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1409594917.217752.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	493.4 KB 
ID:	32271


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    I thought the same thing when I had the 60" deck. The anti scalp shaft , or bolt, pin ,or what ever the correct name may be needed to be at least 1- 1 1/2" longer to get the anti scalp wheel closer to the ground. I had removed the top lynch pin and then locked the scalp wheel in the very top hole. Same for me I had about one inch under the wheel. Advised the shop foreman what I found , he tried several different things for me , but we never did change the length of the anti scalp rod.
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    Calling all 2000 series and 2025r/2032r owners with MMM

    Could somebody that has a 2000 series, 2025r or 2032r and uses a MMM on it measure the length of the shaft the anti-scalp wheel has on it? Trying to determine if there is any difference in length between the different series of tractors/deck combinations. If you could get a diameter of the shaft that would be a big help as well.

    thanks.
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    Heavy Hitch weight bracket & sub soiler combo
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    Keeper of the GTT Cookies dieselshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesetrain View Post
    Could somebody that has a 2000 series, 2025r or 2032r and uses a MMM on it measure the length of the shaft the anti-scalp wheel has on it? Trying to determine if there is any difference in length between the different series of tractors/deck combinations. If you could get a diameter of the shaft that would be a big help as well.

    thanks.
    2720/62D mower, anti-scalp wheel shaft is 6-7/8" long by 15/16" diameter.
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    cheesetrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselshadow View Post
    2720/62D mower, anti-scalp wheel shaft is 6-7/8" long by 15/16" diameter.
    Hmmm. Just measured mine. 5-9/16" long by 15/16" diameter. Planning on stopping into dealer on my way into work tomorrow


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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesetrain View Post
    Bear with me on this thread. What I am about to post are just theories as to why 1). Some 1 series users are not able to get the 4" height of cut that deere lists the 1 series as getting and 2). Scalp issues with the 1 series MMM, particualriy the 60"

    First off, I have a 1025r with the 60" MMM with the mulch kit installed. Tractor was delivered in June. I have done no adjustment on the deck so the height settings on my deck are obtained with dealer setup. With my deck in the lock position, the photo on the left shows the height that my deck is at. As you can see it's just shy of 5".

    We normally mow two notches down from lock which you can see in the middle picture is a height of about 3 3/4". So I can easily get the 1-4" height that Deere claims for the 1 series.

    My neighbor commented about how high I mow the grass and that I should cut it lower in the past. Yesterday when I mowed I got to thinking about this. I usually just lower the anti scalp wheels until the lynch pin hits. This lowers the wheels down obviously but not to the recommended 3/8" clearance that shows on the sticker on the deck and in the manual. I didn't worry about it, new tractor, will play. I wasn't looking for a golf course cut, just not taking 5-9 hours to mow. My neighbor said it took him over a year to get his anti scalp wheels set correctly. He was to the point of trading in his X728 for a X758 with the 54" deck. After his deck adjustments he doesn't get hardly any scalp and his yard when mowed looks like a golf course now.

    I started to experiment yesterday and found out that as one that can mow at a cut height of greater than 3", I run into another problem. I removed the lynch pins and lowered the anti scalp wheels down as far as they will go. As you can see from the picture on the right, I am no where close to the 3/8" clearance that the anti scalp wheels are supposed to be set at, but I have no more holes to use in the adjustment. My neighbor and I did some measuring and it appears that the shafts on the wheels would need to be about 4" longer and have three more holes in order to get the 3/8" height on the anti scalp wheels. Having the brackets the wheels mount in be straight out from the deck and parallel with the ground would gain some extra adjustment as well.

    So theory one is that the 4" cut height can be obtained, but you can't set the anti scalp wheels low enough to properly cut at the 4" height. The shaft on the anti scalp wheels isn't long enough. Could this be why some users have the scalping issues? I measured the anti scalp wheels on my neighbors X728 and they are the same length as mine. He has his deck set to mow at 3 1/4" height. The X700 series has inch increments on the cut height knob.

    Theory number two ties into theory number one. If you read the manual and look at the sticker on the deck itself, it shows that the pins placed in the top hole of the anti scalp wheels is 3". OK. Those of you that can't get a cut height greater than three inches, what are the chances that the deck was setup as follows: Lower anti scalp wheels down and lock in lowest position (3" according to sticker). Lower mower deck until the 3/8" clearance between anti scalp wheels and hard surface is achieved. Set this as the max cut height on the deck.

    I am no expert by any means and by this thread I don't want to deter anybody from buying a 1 series as I love the tractor. These are just theories about some of the complaints users of the 1 series tractors have when using a mid mount mower. I plan on giving the dealer a call tomorrow just to run it by him. Maybe the 2 series or 3 series anti scalp wheels have a longer shaft and will swap over? Maybe I need to lower my mower deck and cut lower? I did check the deck and it is set up correctly from front to back and it is level from side to side. Again, these are just theories as to why some users have the issues with the decks on the 1 series.
    I agree with everything you are saying, this issue has been beating me up badly also, the gaging wheel shaft are definitely short to cut at a higher cut. I have actually been thinking about manufacturing some longer shafts. Sure seems like deere would notice this issue.
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    Very curious as to where this will end up! I love effective mods and I don't even own the 60D, but I will most likely next year.
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    Stopped by the dealer

    Stopped at the dealer on my way into work. Talked with the sales guy about it and found that I am not their first customer to bring this up. I need to take some measurements of how far off the gauge wheels are when at my current mowing height and how much longer the shaft on the wheels needs to be. He will then forward that information to John Deere and see what we get. I asked about if the wheels from a 2 series would fit (which according to dieselshadows tape measure they will). The diameter is the same but the shaft length is an inch longer on the 2 series. Dealer stated it may work but he questioned the actual wheels possibly being an issue as the wheels on a 2 series are wider? No idea as I don't have a 2 series. He also wondered about the lift height of those that have the mechanical lift versus hydrualic lift versus independent lift.

    At any rate the dealer has heard of the issue and is willing to track down a solution, whatever it may be.
    1025R w\ block heater and one rear work light
    H120 FEL w 53" bucket, 54" QH blade, 60" MMM w\ autoconnect, mulch kit and independent lift kit
    JD 3 bag MCS with powerflow
    Land Pride RTA1250 tiller and CA1556 core aerator
    Imatch Quick Hitch
    JamisonBryce MCS Imatch adapter
    Heavy Hitch weight bracket & sub soiler combo
    CMP Attachments 60" HD front dethatcher
    Garber 72" 3pt mount drop spreader
    Countyline 3pt PHD with 9" diameter auger

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