Running a log splitter on a 650?
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    Running a log splitter on a 650?

    Hi folks. I just bought my first home and got my first tractor (John Deere 650) to help maintain it. I was wondering if it would be feasible to run a smaller log splitter off of the hydraulics on this tractor. The tractor has a front PTO setup for it's snowblower as well as power steering. From what I understand the GPM of this tractor is 3GPM at either 1500 or 2000psi according the tractordata and the technical manual. This is the splitter I was considering 12 Ton Tractor 3pt Log Splitter | 3 Point Wood Splitter I did the math and it would be about a 20 second cycle time which I can live with. My questions are as follows:

    Attachment 32648

    Attachment 32649

    Will this tractor feasibly run this splitter?
    Does anyone know if the pressure is 2000 or 1500 psi? Will this effect the tonnage put out by the splitter?
    Would I hook up the lines to the quick connects for the snowblower and just leave one of the valves handles pulled open to keep fluid flowing to the splitter?
    Where might I buy lines / fittings?

    Just pondering at this point. Would love to entertain another use for the tractor around the property.
    Last edited by ozziemo27; 09-09-2014 at 10:36 PM.

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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    Welcome Ozzie,
    The direct answer to your question is yes, it will run the splitter, but at 3gpm I think it would get old very quickly. Also I'm not sure of the reservoir capacity on the 650, but I suspect its small so there may be limited fluid to fill the large cylinder or cool it.
    Kenny

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    Senior GTT Super Slacker Gizmo2's Avatar
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    I think the hydraulic pressure (as designed) is just north of 2000 psi.
    Keith

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    mbullism's Avatar
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    TM1242 lists the 650 as having a 7cc/rev pump (4.4gmp at 2400rpm), and an operating pressure of 2000 psi, which means the relief is probably somewhere between 2050-2200 psi

    The pressure basically is what it is, so a 3in cylinder is looking at about 7in^2 and 14,100 pounds (not allowing for losses) at 2000psi...Technically 7 tons. You'd probably see a little more before the relief opens. FWIW, I've not been able to justify any of the rated tonnages on any splitter I've checked out (even 3000psi at 7in^2 is only 10.5ton, you'd have to run 3500psi to get to 12T)... I guess splitter marketing is still the wild west, lol.

    My spreadsheet is showing shy of 8 seconds to run 18 inches on the power stroke at 2350rpm (540pto), and almost 12s at 1500rpm. Your return should be slightly faster as the cylinder rod itself accounts for some volume on the return stroke. I cut my wood 16in, and most will split short of a full stroke, so you have to factor that in too, imo.

    I'm basically building the same/similar for my 750 which runs at the same psi but slightly higher flow (9cc/rev) though I'm bumping up to 3.5in. It's my understanding if you run a double acting cylinder, which the ramsplitter is, you'd technically only have to fill it once and then top off, as it would be filling and draining at the same time...(as opposed to a single acting cylinder that would steal fluid from the tractor to extend, then return it as it retracts).

    I guess my answer to your question would be that there are plenty of 5ton electric splitters out there (rated, who knows what the actual math says), so as long as you're not doing production work, splitting 20 chord a year, splitting 24in rounds or lots of Y's, knots and knarls, the ramsplitter is probably serviceable if you're patient.

    .02 ymmv

    ETA: the manuals also recommend putting the tranny in "2" and the range selector in "N" if doing extended stationary work to help with lubrication and tranny cooling...I think the comment is meant for stationary PTO work, but is probably applicable to unloaded pto applications as well.

    MB
    Last edited by mbullism; 09-10-2014 at 08:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbullism View Post
    TM1242 lists the 650 as having a 7cc/rev pump (4.4gmp at 2400rpm), and an operating pressure of 2000 psi, which means the relief is probably somewhere between 2050-2200 psi

    The pressure basically is what it is, so a 3in cylinder is looking at about 7in^2 and 14,100 pounds (not allowing for losses) at 2000psi...Technically 7 tons. You'd probably see a little more before the relief opens. FWIW, I've not been able to justify any of the rated tonnages on any splitter I've checked out (even 3000psi at 7in^2 is only 10.5ton, you'd have to run 3500psi to get to 12T)... I guess splitter marketing is still the wild west, lol.

    My spreadsheet is showing shy of 8 seconds to run 18 inches on the power stroke at 2350rpm (540pto), and almost 12s at 1500rpm. Your return should be slightly faster as the cylinder rod itself accounts for some volume on the return stroke. I cut my wood 16in, and most will split short of a full stroke, so you have to factor that in too, imo.

    I'm basically building the same/similar for my 750 which runs at the same psi but slightly higher flow (9cc/rev) though I'm bumping up to 3.5in. It's my understanding if you run a double acting cylinder, which the ramsplitter is, you'd technically only have to fill it once and then top off, as it would be filling and draining at the same time...(as opposed to a single acting cylinder that would steal fluid from the tractor to extend, then return it as it retracts).

    I guess my answer to your question would be that there are plenty of 5ton electric splitters out there (rated, who knows what the actual math says), so as long as you're not doing production work, splitting 20 chord a year, splitting 24in rounds or lots of Y's, knots and knarls, the ramsplitter is probably serviceable if you're patient.

    .02 ymmv

    ETA: the manuals also recommend putting the tranny in "2" and the range selector in "N" if doing extended stationary work to help with lubrication and tranny cooling...I think the comment is meant for stationary PTO work, but is probably applicable to unloaded pto applications as well.

    MB
    Thanks so much for the response! I won't be doing any production work. Just 5 or 6 cords a year for home use. I noticed that they offer a 16 ton model for $20 bucks more that has a 3.5 x 18 cylinder. Would you happen to have the force calculation in lbs for the 3.5 cylinder? I figure it may be worth a little more wait time for the extra force. And how will you be connecting in your hydraulic lines off the splitter?

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    mbullism's Avatar
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    A 3.5" dia cylinder is about 9.6in^2, so at 2000psi that's 19,240 pounds, just shy of 10 ton (again, at 3000psi that's 14T+ and at 3500psi is just over 16T, so I'm not sure how their marketing department comes up with these ratings, lol)

    at 2350rpm (pto) i get 10.4sec to run the 18in power stroke at 7cc, at 1500rpm it'll be over 16sec... take the stopwatch feature on your phone and time 16sec...then time 30 round trip...

    I can't speak for your snowblower set up, my plan is to pin my loader bucket and run mine off the quick disconnects for the bucket curl, just putting a bungee on that lever as you mentioned earlier. I only figure to do maybe 2-2.5 chord a year, though... if I was gonna shoot for six I'd probably buy a stand alone splitter with a two stage pump, etc.

    I seriously considered the splitter you linked (12T and 16T) but at the end of the day I have access to the steel and a welder... and the cylinder, spool valve and hoses only put me back about 180.00- for that difference I can be patient
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    felixm22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozziemo27 View Post
    Thanks so much for the response! I won't be doing any production work. Just 5 or 6 cords a year for home use. I noticed that they offer a 16 ton model for $20 bucks more that has a 3.5 x 18 cylinder. Would you happen to have the force calculation in lbs for the 3.5 cylinder? I figure it may be worth a little more wait time for the extra force. And how will you be connecting in your hydraulic lines off the splitter?
    It may be slower than you think. Below are a couple of threads that cover log splitters.

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...-splitter.html

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...ydraulics.html

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...-splitter.html

    Welcome from WV and good luck,

    Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixm22 View Post
    It may be slower than you think. Below are a couple of threads that cover log splitters.

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...-splitter.html

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...ydraulics.html

    http://www.greentractortalk.com/foru...-splitter.html

    Welcome from WV and good luck,

    Mike
    Thank you for the links. Your first link raised a good question. Does his newer tractor not have an "Open Center" type system and that is why the hydraulics are split? Would that be a problem with my 650? I am fairly sure it is an open center system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozziemo27 View Post
    Thank you for the links. Your first link raised a good question. Does his newer tractor not have an "Open Center" type system and that is why the hydraulics are split? Would that be a problem with my 650? I am fairly sure it is an open center system.
    Your tractor and the 1026r or 1025r have open center hydraulics. I think what you are asking about when you say the hydraulics are split is the power beyond set up. PB is the preferred way to run hydraulic accessories that have their own valves as it provides a continuos flow. It is laid out below

    Pump > SCV > PB out > log splitter SCV> PB in > rockshaft > return to hydro reservoir

    In what you are trying to do by tying the SCV in one position is force the hydro flow through the valve and then return it to the hydro reservoir.

    Pump > SCV
    |

    Log splitter SCV > return to > SVC > return to reservoir.

    Doing it this way works but adds extra heat to the processes because the fluid is forced through the SCV of the tractor as apposed to just flowing through the open center of the SCV.


    I hope I made that clear and that is what you were asking.


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    Captain Hook Kennyd's Avatar
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    There are some great calculators here: Baum Hydraulics Corp :: Spec Calculator
    Kenny

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