B260 Backhoe Boom Fast and jerky, possible solution
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    B260 Backhoe Boom Fast and jerky, possible solution

    Well, I have been up and down these posts, and other posts on other sites as well, lots of people complain about this problem
    Yes, the boom on my B260 Backhoe is also fast and jerky, however mine is brand new, so there are no worn out parts, it came like this new. the Dipper and Bucket operate smoothly but the boom is very fast and jerky, it sometimes will shake the whole machine, and yes I asked my dealer about it and all they told me is, "well you just need to learn how to operate it" Well he may be right, but if everyone has this problem, then it could be a design flaw in the part of John Deere.
    So as I was looking over the unit I noticed that the Boom Cylinder is significantly narrower than the dipper cylinder, now I may not have a engineering degree but simple physics tells me that a smaller cylinder will fill with fluid much faster than a bigger one. Which would tell me why the boom is so fast and jerky.
    Well I thought about just replacing the boom cylinder with another dipper one, so I looked online for a dipper cylinder (LVA14990) just to see how much, well its $1013, compared to $725 for the boom cylinder(LVA14991).
    So what do ya'll think? Could I be on the right track??

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    KD7CAO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincentrose View Post
    Well, I have been up and down these posts, and other posts on other sites as well, lots of people complain about this problem
    Yes, the boom on my B260 Backhoe is also fast and jerky, however mine is brand new, so there are no worn out parts, it came like this new. the Dipper and Bucket operate smoothly but the boom is very fast and jerky, it sometimes will shake the whole machine, and yes I asked my dealer about it and all they told me is, "well you just need to learn how to operate it" Well he may be right, but if everyone has this problem, then it could be a design flaw in the part of John Deere.
    So as I was looking over the unit I noticed that the Boom Cylinder is significantly narrower than the dipper cylinder, now I may not have a engineering degree but simple physics tells me that a smaller cylinder will fill with fluid much faster than a bigger one. Which would tell me why the boom is so fast and jerky.
    Well I thought about just replacing the boom cylinder with another dipper one, so I looked online for a dipper cylinder (LVA14990) just to see how much, well its $1013, compared to $725 for the boom cylinder(LVA14991).
    So what do ya'll think? Could I be on the right track??
    Less expensive route to test your theory would be to put a hydraulic restrictor in line on one of the cylinder hoses. This would prevent it from filling as quickly and could be done for less than $50 with fittings. Any good hydraulics shop could assemble everything you need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KD7CAO View Post
    Less expensive route to test your theory would be to put a hydraulic restrictor in line on one of the cylinder hoses. This would prevent it from filling as quickly and could be done for less than $50 with fittings. Any good hydraulics shop could assemble everything you need.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    Someone with more knowledge on hydraulic systems may chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think a meter out flow control on both ends of the cylinder ports may do the trick. Considering these systems are open center and both sides of the cylinder are filled with fluid, metering / restricting the outflow of the fluid will result in much smoother operation than a meter in flow control.

    Just my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonton View Post
    Someone with more knowledge on hydraulic systems may chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think a meter out flow control on both ends of the cylinder ports may do the trick. Considering these systems are open center and both sides of the cylinder are filled with fluid, metering / restricting the outflow of the fluid will result in much smoother operation than a meter in flow control.

    Just my opinion.
    With industrial equipment I have found smoother operation metering in instead of out. When your actuator or valve shifts you would have to develop pressure on the opposite side of the cylinder metering out and that still results in a little surging. In factory configuration by only slightly moving the valve to move a cylinder slowly you are in fact using the valve to meter in.
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    I am still in the "learn to use it " group.

    1) slow the throttle down,,, slow it down enough, it will bore you into speeding it up.

    2) The control lever is like a trigger on a gun.
    Remember how many cowboy movies show teaching the novice how to shoot?
    "Squeeze the trigger,,, do not jerk the trigger"

    That applies to this control lever.
    S L O W L Y move the lever, the sudden jerk will go away.

    When you learn to get rid of the jerking, you will appreciate the extra speed.
    A faster machine will get the work done faster.

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    No offense intended here, but the most common mistake is too high of an RPM setting. Restricting flow to solve a problem that the throttle can do for you is wasting time and money. Here's the recommendations and a comment regarding your experience right out of the 260 manual. The higher the throttle RPM the more sensitive to operate BH, with no gain in digging / breakout force.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd recommend you start out at about 2000 rpm, until you get the feel for it. Increase throttle as you gain experience.

    Operating Range:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm a recent owner myself, but the 260 is what I use most of the time. I dug these and ~ 20 larger ones today. The FEL is struggling with the one on the left, so I'll move that later.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    After some experience you'll be operating as well as this guy:


    Happy digging!
    Tom

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    I agree.... Throttle down!! More throttle does not make the BH dig any better, just faster.
    Also, the more you use it the better you will get with the controls.

    The boom speed also has allot to do with the geometry of where the cylinders are mounted and the position of the boom. The higher the boom is, the faster the boom will move. At a low boom angle, the cylinder to boom geometry changes so the boom is slower at lower angles.

    If you look at how the boom cylinder is mounted, when the boom is at a high angle, the boom cylinder is actually pulling more down on the boom rather than applying pulling force at a leverage angle. The leverage angle increases when the boom is lower.
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    The jerkiness we all experience with the boom when it reaches the vertical position is due to the geometry of the cylinder and attach points. The three points, the hinge point of the boom and the two ends of the cylinder, are close to being in line with each other. That means that for every bit of movement of the cylinder, the boom will be covering a much larger distance than when the boom is horizontal. You simply need to learn that as you approach vertical, you need to ease off the boom lever.

    Switching to a larger diameter cylinder will not change this geometry, but it will give the boom more power than it was designed for, which risks causing damage to the machine.

    * Just noticed that Ray_Pa mentioned the same thing...
    Last edited by W9GFO; 08-27-2016 at 09:42 PM.
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    I have just a tad of advise to offer.

    Throttle down does/will help.......This is not an option on large machines as the whole particulate filter/regen whatever won't like it.

    I baled out of a tractor mounted BH and went excavater.

    First thing I notice here is there are NO armrests..these help a bunch in a mini ex.

    Secondly...plant your outriggers and bucket to prevent as much movement as possible...once the "jerk" gets in a cycle it can multiply to a point where you just let go of everything to stop it.

    Time/practice/low rpm will get you in a rythem eventually. Can you switch your machine to "CAT" pattern of control.

    Try it if so....its preferred by most operators.

    ymmv....my thoughts
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    Quote Originally Posted by theduke View Post
    I have just a tad of advise to offer.

    Throttle down does/will help.......This is not an option on large machines as the whole particulate filter/regen whatever won't like it.

    I baled out of a tractor mounted BH and went excavater.

    First thing I notice here is there are NO armrests..these help a bunch in a mini ex.

    Secondly...plant your outriggers and bucket to prevent as much movement as possible...once the "jerk" gets in a cycle it can multiply to a point where you just let go of everything to stop it.

    Time/practice/low rpm will get you in a rythem eventually. Can you switch your machine to "CAT" pattern of control.

    Try it if so....its preferred by most operators.

    ymmv....my thoughts
    IMO, what most operators prefer has most to do with what they got used to running. SAE control layout was developed in the US so machines that were originally built in the US, like CAT, used the SAE Control layout.
    Machines that were built internationally, mostly used the ISO lever layout. This would include JD.
    Most all new excavators and backhoes now have the ability to switch them to the ISO or SAE, depending on what you are used to.

    It really comes down to what you have gotten used to.
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