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    johncanfield's Avatar
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    Time to go truck shopping

    I say this with mixed emotions, the new F-250 is amazing, quiet for a diesel with lots of useful goodies but holy cow they are expensive, you can easily add $20k worth of options to the lower trim lines. Here's a link to the series brochure

    Age is creeping up on me (I just turned 70) and on my current F250 Powerstroke - it's 19 years old. Lots of little things have been breaking or need work. The engine has some minor oil leaks, the rear diff cover is leaking gear oil, power windows broke some time ago, the cables that operate the half doors (it's the supercab model) both broke within a few days of each other and I've probably forgotten a few things.

    Yes, it's cheaper to keep fixing it (it's in the shop now) and drive it until the wheels fall off but I'm going to need a reliable truck for the next ten years at least (good Lord willing). I need to haul hay, feed, take the tractor in for service, etc. and don't want to deal with some catastrophic failure miles from anywhere. A friend recently needed a tow truck and nobody would come from the two closest cities, they finally got one from over an hour away. Life in ranch land.

    My current truck has the 8' bed which is a must since I haul plywood once in a while so that's a must on a new truck. Last Saturday the wife and I test drove (she was in the back seat) an F-250 crew cab diesel (short bed) and I was super impressed as was she - the seats were comfy. Love the crew cab, the seats fold up providing a ton of inside room. The tow cameras are absolutely amazing. The six speed tranny was very smooth and the engine has an exhaust brake - wow.

    I didn't realize it but the latest generation F-250/350/450 are aluminum bodies like the F150 to save weight so they could fully box the frame rails.

    After doing a bunch of research and reading Ford truck forums, I'm pretty set on ordering a 2019 F-250 XLT with several options, crew cab and long bed. With this config you get a 48 gallon tank - nice. And yes, it's a long wheelbase (176") but the cameras make it trivial to maneuver the beast. Our motorhome has a 256" wheelbase so we're used to length.
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    Can't wait to see what you end up with!


    They are nice, but they sure are pricey!! That's why I keep buying lottery tickets!
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    Senior GTT Super Slacker Gizmo2's Avatar
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    I think the XLT's are a much better buy unless you want to be overloaded with options you probably won't use.
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    ddinham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncanfield View Post
    I say this with mixed emotions, the new F-250 is amazing, quiet for a diesel with lots of useful goodies but holy cow they are expensive, you can easily add $20k worth of options to the lower trim lines. Here's a link to the series brochure

    Age is creeping up on me (I just turned 70) and on my current F250 Powerstroke - it's 19 years old. Lots of little things have been breaking or need work. The engine has some minor oil leaks, the rear diff cover is leaking gear oil, power windows broke some time ago, the cables that operate the half doors (it's the supercab model) both broke within a few days of each other and I've probably forgotten a few things.

    Yes, it's cheaper to keep fixing it (it's in the shop now) and drive it until the wheels fall off but I'm going to need a reliable truck for the next ten years at least (good Lord willing). I need to haul hay, feed, take the tractor in for service, etc. and don't want to deal with some catastrophic failure miles from anywhere. A friend recently needed a tow truck and nobody would come from the two closest cities, they finally got one from over an hour away. Life in ranch land.

    My current truck has the 8' bed which is a must since I haul plywood once in a while so that's a must on a new truck. Last Saturday the wife and I test drove (she was in the back seat) an F-250 crew cab diesel (short bed) and I was super impressed as was she - the seats were comfy. Love the crew cab, the seats fold up providing a ton of inside room. The tow cameras are absolutely amazing. The six speed tranny was very smooth and the engine has an exhaust brake - wow.

    I didn't realize it but the latest generation F-250/350/450 are aluminum bodies like the F150 to save weight so they could fully box the frame rails.

    After doing a bunch of research and reading Ford truck forums, I'm pretty set on ordering a 2019 F-250 XLT with several options, crew cab and long bed. With this config you get a 48 gallon tank - nice. And yes, it's a long wheelbase (176") but the cameras make it trivial to maneuver the beast. Our motorhome has a 256" wheelbase so we're used to length.


    Do you really need a diesel??? I get by just fine with the 6.2L gasser and they just upped the torque in the newest models to 430. Mine is 385 HP and 405 torque and I pull my 31ft gooseneck flatbed dually just fine. Right now diesel fuel is running 50% more than gas. You would have to get some tremendous fuel mileage to offset the extra cost of the diesel. If you are pulling heavy loads all the time, then diesel is the way to go, but in my case, it is less than 5% of the time. I would never get a payback on the initial cost of the diesel, never mind the 50% higher fuel cost. That 48 gal fuel tank would sure be convenient, but the fill up cost would be staggering at close to $150 at current diesel prices. Filling up my 35 gal tank at much lower cost per gal brings tears to my eyes now.

    Dave
    Last edited by ddinham; 01-09-2019 at 12:32 PM.
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    johncanfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddinham View Post
    Do you really need a diesel???...
    Excellent question. Just had that discussion with a couple of friends. I forgot the specs on the 2019 engines but as I recall the diesel has almost twice the torque of the gasser, has an exhaust brake and more tow capacity.

    Do I need that? No. Do I want that? Yes.

    (An interesting side note - my 2000 F250 diesel is worth about $7k according to NADA. The base vehicle is valued at $3.5k, the diesel option adds $3.5k.)
    Last edited by johncanfield; 01-09-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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    Cutty72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddinham View Post
    Do you really need a diesel??? I get by just fine with the 6.2L gasser and they just upped the torque in the newest models to 430. Mine is 385 HP and 405 torque and I pull my 31ft gooseneck flatbed dually just fine. Right now diesel fuel is running 50% more than gas. You would have to get some tremendous fuel mileage to offset the extra cost of the diesel. If you are pulling heavy loads all the time, then diesel is the way to go, but in my case, it is less than 5% of the time. I would never get a payback on the initial cost of the diesel, never mind the 50% higher fuel cost. That 48 gal fuel tank would sure be convenient, but the fill up cost would be staggering at close to $150 at current diesel prices. Filling up my 35 gal tank at much lower cost per gal brings tears to my eyes now.

    Dave
    What type of MPG are you getting with your 6.2?
    I ask as dad has a '12 F350 diesel, and recently went from a '12 F250 gas to a '17 F350 gas.

    '12 gas he averaged about 11 mpg when driving empty.
    When he would tow a 16' aluminum trailer with a side by side, that mpg would drop to 7-8
    He had that pickup for just over 200k.

    '12 diesel he averages 18 mpg empty.
    He tows a 34' flatbed with everything from a man lift, hay bales, or scrap iron, often grossing in excess of the legal weight of the F350, and averages 10 mpg.
    Currently at 70k.

    '17 gas (with utility body) he is getting around 12 empty and hasn't towed with it yet.
    Currently at about 35k miles.

    Current gas price is $2.15/gal
    Current diesel price is $2.69/gal

    Yes, you have to drive a lot of miles to make the full dollars and cents work out, but something has to be said for piece of mind and comfort towing.
    Personally, if I can justify a F250/350, it will be a diesel.

    Then again, I'm still driving that 19 y/o F250 with a diesel like the O.P. so what do I know.
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    ddinham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncanfield View Post
    Excellent question. Just had that discussion with a couple of friends. I forgot the specs on the 2019 engines but as I recall the diesel has almost twice the torque of the gasser, has an exhaust brake and more tow capacity.

    Do I need that? No. Do I want that? Yes.

    (An interesting side note - my 2000 F250 diesel is worth about $7k according to NADA. The base vehicle is valued at $3.5k, the diesel option adds $3.5k.)

    Yeah, the diesel is always going to have a higher resale value, but not enough to offset the initial cost. Not to mention the higher operational costs in addition to the higher fuel cost. Oil changes are 2 to 3 times higher than the gasser. You need DEF fluid. You need other additives in the diesel fuel. The real difference for most of us is that the gasser will shift more when towing than the diesel. Most of the time I can pull in 6th gear, with occasional drops to 5th or 4th, where the diesel might pull in 6th more of the time. When I have my 4066R loaded with the finish mower, I gross 22,000lbs and am licensed out to 24,000lbs. So, I might be grossing more than you, since my gooseneck trailer weighs 7300# empty. One thing to think about: If you go with the gasser, get a F350 instead of the F250 as it has the heavier duty tranny with the gasser engine, same as the diesel. I have the std 3.73 axle and it works fine for me. You might want to think about a lower towing axle ratio. The gasser does not have engine braking like the diesel, but it does have tranny braking when in tow/haul mode, which I rarely use. If you step on the brake pedal, that triggers the tranny braking. The 6.2L is a really great engine. OHC and 2 spark plugs per cylinder. Now, if it had the Ecoboost treatment, there would be no need for a diesel.

    I have a 2012 F450 4WD crew cab flatbed listed for a friend in the for sale section with the V10 gasser and 4.88 axles that was used to pull a 33ft very heavy triple axle 5th wheel travel trailer until he had to retire due to health issues. It only has 17,000 miles on it.

    Dave
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    My 2 cents....

    I had a 2000 F350 diesel that I had for 15 years. Good rig but after 176K it was nickle and dime-ing me to the tune of $1000 - 2000 every so often. Still on the original tranny too. After doing some shopping and research I ended up ordering a 2017 F350 CCLB 6.2L. I certainly wanted a diesel but they are not near as reliable as the old 7.3 and I plan to keep this rig well past the warranty. After a year and half with the 17', I don't regret the choice. The gasser has been great and has as much power as the 7.3 did. It's 2 times the truck the 2000 was. I did a base XLT optioned with only what I wanted and out the door was less than $45K.

    I won't go into the resale thing as you'll never convince me it's worth it. However, when I sold my 2000, I sold it for $6000 over blue book because out here people are willing to pay for a 7.3 that was taken care of because it's simple and reliable compared to any of the modern diesels. You'll never do that well with 6.7. I get the same mpg's I did with the 7.3, gas is cheaper per gallon, heat is fast, and oil changes are $34. I don't miss a diesel at all. But if you can afford it go for it. The power is incredible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutty72 View Post
    What type of MPG are you getting with your 6.2?
    I ask as dad has a '12 F350 diesel, and recently went from a '12 F250 gas to a '17 F350 gas.

    '12 gas he averaged about 11 mpg when driving empty.
    When he would tow a 16' aluminum trailer with a side by side, that mpg would drop to 7-8
    He had that pickup for just over 200k.

    '12 diesel he averages 18 mpg empty.
    He tows a 34' flatbed with everything from a man lift, hay bales, or scrap iron, often grossing in excess of the legal weight of the F350, and averages 10 mpg.
    Currently at 70k.

    '17 gas (with utility body) he is getting around 12 empty and hasn't towed with it yet.
    Currently at about 35k miles.

    Current gas price is $2.15/gal
    Current diesel price is $2.69/gal

    Yes, you have to drive a lot of miles to make the full dollars and cents work out, but something has to be said for piece of mind and comfort towing.
    Personally, if I can justify a F250/350, it will be a diesel.

    Then again, I'm still driving that 19 y/o F250 with a diesel like the O.P. so what do I know.
    I don't know what his kind of driving is, but I get much better gas mileage. Now I admit that I drive for gas mileage, rather than power. I also use non-ethanol fuel most of the time, depending on the price differential. With non-ethanol fuel, I get 17-18 MPG running at 70MPH. Speed limit on the 4 lane hwy close to me is 75 and I can run 80 without getting a ticket. If I did that, my mileage would be probably like his. Ethanol fuel would drop me to around 15 MPG. Driving 80 would probably drop that to 12-13. These are empty figures. BTW, I am at 161,000 miles, so nowhere near new. Mine is a 2011. Also, I am 2WD, which gives me a little bit more mileage. I have never had 4WD and have no need for it. Even my car is RWD. If it snows, I just stay home. One of the advantages of being retired. On a trip to Iowa a couple of years ago pulling the trailer, I drove 65 like the big boys, instead of 70 like I usually do and increased my mileage by 1 mpg.

    Loaded to 22,000# using non-ethanol fuel, I will get 10-11. Less using ethanol fuel. Again, price differential determines which I use. It is an E85 engine, but I don't even know where to buy any of that. Mileage would be a lot worse with E85.

    Dave

    Pic below. No RFM, so I was grossing about 21,000#. Tractor was too far forward. I will be more careful next time, although I could not notice it when towing. One of the advantages of a gooseneck.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by ddinham; 01-09-2019 at 03:22 PM.
    JD 4066R CAB
    JD H180 FEL with SSQA brackets, JD iMatch, JD Ballast Box & ext, JD pull behind seed spreader
    Frontier RB2196H 8 ft rear blade/hyd angle, Frontier BB1065 Box Blade, Befco 3pt 110 inch RFM
    48" pallet forks, KK 3pt Boom Pole, Northern Tool 3pt middle buster, 2 bottom Dearborn plow
    County Line post hole digger, Rhino 3pt 10ft brush hog, Land Pride 8ft rock rake
    Fit Rite Hydraulics 3pt Top Link, front 3pt adapter for SSQA, 7 1/2 ft Field Roller, 8ft Dearborn tandem disk

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    Cutty72's Avatar
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    Yeah, 4x4, ethanol, and driving speeds make the difference between his and yours I'd guess.
    2010 2320 with 200cx FEL
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