Driveshaft too heavy?
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    Exclamation Driveshaft too heavy?

    So I got to taking my 420 apart to replace the hydro pump seal, and a neighbor asked me a question I hadn't thought f before. When I built my tractor I didn't buy the OEM driveshaft, since I wasn't using an Onan. I just needed the stub shaft from Honda, and the U-joint on the other end (on the pump). I used a solid piece of 1" steel bar to connect the two.

    He asked if I thought the solid bar would be too heavy, and pull down on the pump shaft and wear out the seal faster. Thoughts? I hadn't even considered that, but since the pump side is splined and not like a typical driveshaft it kinda makes sense. I am now looking to have a new one built with tubing instead, since the driveshaft doesn't need to be as heavy as I made it. I can't seem to find anyone that will take the existing driveshaft, and make the same length with tubing and weld it back up. All the places near me are all contract fabricators or do large quantity government fabrication.
    rydplrs, BigJim55 and Herminator like this.
    1990 John Deere 420 - Built by Deere, assembled by me.

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    If it was out of balance you would feel it, and only then would it do more damage then a lighter shaft. Stock 420 shafts are not lightweight. It may be less then an inch but not by a whole lot.

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    The one on my 400 was solid 1”. Based off that I suspect your original one was but being it was built after it perhaps it was tube. My UTV1800 was tubing and would be closer in age but that was more like 1-3/8 or so.

    You should be fine and actually correct.
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    I would try an automotive machine shop or even an automotive restoration/fabrication shop. Either place should have a welder and someone who can use it. They should be able to make a drive shaft for you.

    I made one once for the rear PTO for my JD400. It was made of 1 inch solid bar stock and 1 inch id tubing so the two piece fit in each other. I just measured for length and perceived adjust ability needed for the shafts to move in/out and then fired up my welder and welded on the u joints/splined shafts. I did not have a reference of how much the old one weighed, I just knew it was roughly 1 inch in diameter since that is what the output/input shaft diameters were. I do not have an unusual vibrations and the thing has stayed together now going on about 7 years. I did not balance it or anything so I was either lucky or it seemed like I knew what I was doing. I am thinking lucky but I will take it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69project View Post
    I would try an automotive machine shop or even an automotive restoration/fabrication shop. Either place should have a welder and someone who can use it. They should be able to make a drive shaft for you.
    I've tried 3 different machine shops and 4 welding shops. All nothing. The machine shops say the DS is too small to put in a lathe. recommended I just reinstall and measure with a runout gauge. I got it all back together and I'm thinking the DS is out of alignment, under low idle you can see the shadow (or whatever its called) of the DS movement. Looks about 1/8" to 1/4" off somewhere, I'm guessing engine side. Time to tear it apart again, it looks like. Unless someone in the Baltimore area fancies a field trip to show me how off I am...
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    1990 John Deere 420 - Built by Deere, assembled by me.

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    Hmm, OK, Honda stub shaft on engine. Does 1" rod fit into or onto stub shaft? If into. what is the clearance/difference in bore and 1" rod? BTW, a 1" rod can be .990" to 1.000 depending on supplier and finish. Next, how does Honda stub register on rear of engine? You need to do more checking! Bob
    '80 317 w/18hp B&S and divert valve for rear hydraulics, 3 pt hitch, 5' york rake
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwmeyer View Post
    Hmm, OK, Honda stub shaft on engine. Does 1" rod fit into or onto stub shaft? If into. what is the clearance/difference in bore and 1" rod? BTW, a 1" rod can be .990" to 1.000 depending on supplier and finish. Next, how does Honda stub register on rear of engine? You need to do more checking! Bob
    The Honda stub shaft was 1.00" on the nose, and slid right over the 1" round bar. The stub shaft has 3 bolts, and 3 tabs alternating. It does not have any play once tightened onto the engine. I did plenty of checking
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    1990 John Deere 420 - Built by Deere, assembled by me.

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    I'm going to go with a "worst case scenario" here. Let's assume your shaft is .995, that's a possible .0025" run-out, and the holes in your stub have 1/32 to 1 mm clearance, that's .020" run-out for a 0225" or .045 total run-out...not even close to your 1/8"-1/4" !!

    The next item to look at is your engine mounts. Is your engine moving around making it "appear" to have DS runout?

    My final comment is to rework the driveshaft by putting a second universal joint on the engine end. Envision the centerline of your crankshaft extending rearward to your hydro input shaft. Unless this centerline lines up perfectly/exactly with your input shaft, you'll be putting a side load on the shaft...and seal and isn't this where the thread started? You can't measure this misalignment without a special arbor...you drop your motor on its mounts, bolt everything up, and hope for the best! A universal on the engine side will compensate for this misalignment.

    Hope this helps, Bob
    Last edited by rwmeyer; 10-24-2018 at 03:32 AM.
    '80 317 w/18hp B&S and divert valve for rear hydraulics, 3 pt hitch, 5' york rake
    '82 314 w/rear PTO for tiller
    33 tiller
    49 thrower
    54 4 way blade
    Mod 48 deck & Mod 462 TracVac

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    I posted this topic on a few forums, and something that was brought up was drive line phasing. I don't think the yokes on the driveshaft are aligned the same, one may be off which can cause the vibration I'm feeling. I have to pull the thing out again to verify. I also contacted a couple repower companies, one of them being the "repower specialists" to try and buy their kit which includes a driveshaft adapter, engine plate, and custom muffler for the Honda GX690 and was told they don't sell the kit by itself - only with the engine. It's the EXACT thing I need to fix my build, and Brandon won't piece it out even for a luxury tax. An unfortunate end to the simplest solution to my problem.
    1990 John Deere 420 - Built by Deere, assembled by me.

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    AHHH! You DO have 2 universals! From your first/original post, you said, "I just needed the stub shaft from Honda, and the U-joint on the other end (on the pump). I used a solid piece of 1" steel bar to connect the two." so I assumed only 1 on the rear.

    Phasing: I can't wrap my brain around that to determine if it's valid or not, so I'll not comment as to how/why it works...or not! Bob
    '80 317 w/18hp B&S and divert valve for rear hydraulics, 3 pt hitch, 5' york rake
    '82 314 w/rear PTO for tiller
    33 tiller
    49 thrower
    54 4 way blade
    Mod 48 deck & Mod 462 TracVac

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