John Deere 210 no fire
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    John Deere 210 no fire

    Hi:

    I recently had several new parts installed. Coil, points, condensor, plug wire and plug. Was out to cut the lawn this morning and it quit part way thru the first
    round. Yellow wire running from wiring harness to headlights had come loose and grounded on the frame. I reconnected it and things continued. Cut around 90% of
    the lawn and then it died. No fire. Would turn over fine but not getting any spark.

    I did some diagnostics as follows:

    - checked when key is in the ON position that am getting 12V at the + terminal on the coil. CHECK
    - checked that I'm getting 12V at the seat safety switch. CHECK
    - checked the points but putting my volt meter on the - terminal with black to ground and turned it over - NO METER MOVEMENT
    so...does that mean the points are not working? Could bouncing around the lawn put the points out of proper spec??

    Since it is turning over no problem, what could be causing the no spark condition? Could just bouncing around the yard cause the points to go out of proper spec and thereby no spark?

    Ideas??
    Last edited by mackendw; 07-18-2019 at 05:58 PM.

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    CBsJD's Avatar
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    Try reading voltage from the points positive terminal to ground with the switch on and the points open. If no voltage, disconnect the condenser from the circuit. If you get voltage, the condenser is shorted out. If still no voltage, take a voltage reading at the coil negative terminal to ground with the points open, if voltage, the wire from the coil negative terminal to the points is probably loose or broken. If no voltage, coil may be bad. You can do a primary resistance reading across the positive and negative coil terminals, should be around .4 to 6 ohms. You can also check the coil secondary windings from positive terminal to the plug wire socket on the coil, should be around 5k to 20k
    ohms. Coil manufacturer will have the actual resistance values for that particular coil.

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    CBsJD's Avatar
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    You probably already checked, but make sure the points are actually making contact with each other when closed.

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    The coil should be 3.5-5 ohms + to -, and 15k on plus or minus to the plug wire.

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    CBsJD's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention, you can test the condenser with your meter set to ohms. Hold the red lead on the condenser positive wire and the black lead on the condenser case. The meter should rise to infinity and stay there. Hold for 15-20 seconds. Any reading less than infinity, no good. Then hold the red lead on the case and the black on the wire, meter should rise and then fall back to zero. Disconnect the condenser wire before testing.
    Last edited by CBsJD; 07-19-2019 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBsJD View Post
    Try reading voltage from the points positive terminal to ground with the switch on and the points open. If no voltage, disconnect the condenser from the circuit. If you get voltage, the condenser is shorted out. If still no voltage, take a voltage reading at the coil negative terminal to ground with the points open, if voltage, the wire from the coil negative terminal to the points is probably loose or broken. If no voltage, coil may be bad. You can do a primary resistance reading across the positive and negative coil terminals, should be around .4 to 6 ohms. You can also check the coil secondary windings from positive terminal to the plug wire socket on the coil, should be around 5k to 20k
    ohms. Coil manufacturer will have the actual resistance values for that particular coil.
    OK, I'll start with these tests in the morning. Thx for the input. Appreciate it. I bought some 10 guage wire this morning to replace the wire from the - coil terminal to the points. I'm hoping that this is where things have broken down. I'll then do the tests as indicated and report the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBsJD View Post
    You probably already checked, but make sure the points are actually making contact with each other when closed.
    They are closing after they open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBsJD View Post
    Try reading voltage from the points positive terminal to ground with the switch on and the points open. If no voltage, disconnect the condenser from the circuit. If you get voltage, the condenser is shorted out. If still no voltage, take a voltage reading at the coil negative terminal to ground with the points open, if voltage, the wire from the coil negative terminal to the points is probably loose or broken. If no voltage, coil may be bad. You can do a primary resistance reading across the positive and negative coil terminals, should be around .4 to 6 ohms. You can also check the coil secondary windings from positive terminal to the plug wire socket on the coil, should be around 5k to 20k
    ohms. Coil manufacturer will have the actual resistance values for that particular coil.
    OK, been working on this all day... I took the new parts I got from isavetractors.com (coil and condensor) off and tested them. Looks like they are both shot. New parts....geeze. No reading from + to - on Ohms. Nor on + to plug connector either or - to plug connector. No reading on the condensor either.

    So, I re-installed the old coil which worked before and the condensor that was used with it. I get 12 V on + with key in the OK position with it. I also get 12V on the - terminal with key on.

    Earlier this morning I took off the points and re-checked the .020 setting. There was no dirt or debris inside and there was no sign of damage to the points themselves. I took off the wire running from the coil - to the points to inspect it and it was in good shape. No burns or abrasions in it. I did a ohm reading on it to ensure it's in working order reading 0 with red lead on ohm meter on one end and black lead on the other.

    We tested the old coil and condensor and when we turn it over, it is not putting 12V out the - side ...only around 5-6V. No visible spark on the plug either. We tried testing to see if the power is making its way from the - coil to the points and it is not. So...I'm not sure wtf is going on here. We removed the condensor from the - side of the coil to see if that was sucking up power and it made no difference.

    Could the rectifier/regulator be a problem here? I thought it was only for charging the battery.

    Not sure where to go from here...

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    Mack, I can't say what's wrong but I believe (??) 5-6v on the negative side - of the coil is OK. There's an internal resister in the coil that will drop the voltage..this is to save your points. I kinda thinking you should have around 7-9v though.

    Coil to points wire: Remove wire from coil and check continuity to points. If OK, remove points and check from fixed side of points to points base plate with an insulator holding points open. Next check from movable side of points to base plate...again with insulator between points. It's been a loong time since I've messed with points, but IIRC, the fixed side should should have continuity to the base plate and the movable side has an insulating bushing and should not have continuity to the base plate. The bushing could (??) be worn and your coil is constantly connected to ground...thus, no spark.

    Hopefully, some one will correct me if I'm wrong on points continuity to base. Either way, one side should have continuity and the other shouldn't. Check it out and post findings. Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwmeyer View Post
    Mack, I can't say what's wrong but I believe (??) 5-6v on the negative side - of the coil is OK. There's an internal resister in the coil that will drop the voltage..this is to save your points. I kinda thinking you should have around 7-9v though.

    Coil to points wire: Remove wire from coil and check continuity to points. If OK, remove points and check from fixed side of points to points base plate with an insulator holding points open. Next check from movable side of points to base plate...again with insulator between points. It's been a loong time since I've messed with points, but IIRC, the fixed side should should have continuity to the base plate and the movable side has an insulating bushing and should not have continuity to the base plate. The bushing could (??) be worn and your coil is constantly connected to ground...thus, no spark.

    Hopefully, some one will correct me if I'm wrong on points continuity to base. Either way, one side should have continuity and the other shouldn't. Check it out and post findings. Bob
    I took the wire going from the - terminal of the coil to the points off this morning, cleaned it and checked for damage, burn marks, etc. It was in very good condition so I just put insulators on the ends near the terminals and put it back on. Did an ohm check and it read 0 ohms verifying that is was good.

    RE: the points themselves, when connecting the J hook connector on the end of the wire, this may well be where I'm not putting it on the screw correctly. There is a metal flange that is spring loaded with the screw through it. I put the J hook wire end on that screw but on top of the metal. Is that correct?

    You can see the metal flanged with the screw connector on the points in the picture. The screw is not installed on these points (old). but the J connector would be between the screw and the metal.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by mackendw; 07-20-2019 at 03:05 PM.

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