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Discussion Starter #1
Hopefully someone has been through this headache!

Last fall when I replaced those rotten backing plates on my F250, I researched the parts I would need. There is a lot of confusion and debate about these axle seals (technically it is a hub seal since it is a floating axle). Based on consensus on several truck forums, I settled on a National Seal (370247A). This is a one piece seal. I can't say for certain if the factory was originally a one piece seal. It definitely came apart in two pieces. Everything was perfectly dry when I took it apart. I put everything together and it seemed to be Ok. Then, last month I went to adjust the parking brakes only to find that they were wet. The driver side was worse, but they both had some oil on them. So, I went to Ford this time and they spec'd a part based on my VIN. This is a job 3 2008, so I am always aware that it may be more like an 09 than an 08. He sold me BRS-179s. I also bought no e-brake shoes rather than trying to wash off the old ones. I put everything back together and drove it. Now, 3 weeks later I have a PUDDLE of oil on the floor. It is the driver's side leaking. Passenger side appears to be dry. But this thing is leaking BAD now. The first thing I checked was to see if the axle nut backed off or maybe I never seated it well. Everything feels good with the tire in the air. So, now I am back to wondering about this elusive 2-piece seal. The Fordparts website calls for a BRS-116 (for both a generic 08 F250 and my VIN. But also shows none in stock locally. It is not clear in the drawing that it is a 2 piece seal, but I suspect it may be. It also says that it is superseded by another part but I can't get that part to come up. Full part # for the BRS 116 is 1175 (BRS-116). It says it is supersed by 1177. But a search on their site for an 1177 goes back to the BRS-116. Fun, eh? Oh, and some of the research I am doing is saying that the 116 was replaced by a BRS-180. So, what did this guy sell me? WTH?

The best part is that I am towing my 5th wheel 800 miles next week. I need this fixed and I have to have some level of confidence in it.

If anyone has any history with this challenge, please let me know. Meanwhile, I am going outside to tear it apart. Either way I am replacing that seal!

Lee
 

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are installing the seal dry? did you put grease on the rubber seal before you reassembled ?

should be one piece oil seal ford # 4c3z1s177a or national 370247a i think.. make sure you grease up the seal so it dont have a dry start
 

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are installing the seal dry? did you put grease on the rubber seal before you reassembled ?
If you didn't grease the new seal that's your problem. Also make absolutely sure that the place this seal rides on is clean and smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I did not slather grease on the seal. I did, however put a shot of gear oil in before I put the axle in. The surface was clean and still is, although as would be expected, it goes from polish spindle to rough rusty surface. I am wondering if this seal rides a bit further inboard than the last one. The seal is definitely destroyed, so the greasing could be the culprit. The part# on the Ford invoice is CC3Z1S175A which does not match the suggested part above.

This is what the seal looks like after only 800 miles

IMG_20170808_210456322.jpg

And the spindle (if that is the correct) looks like

IMG_20170808_210629934.jpg

So, here is the tough question. When I get a new seal, do I need to get 2? Do I presume that the other side will fail still? Or is it possible I got lucky on one side and not the other? I read 2 or 3 very detailed and picture heavy threads about doing this job and honestly I never saw anyone grease the seal. I can see why it is a good idea, I just never thought to do it. Is there any grease that is better than another?

Thanks for the input.

Lee
 

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its a wet type seal always put a big glob of grease around the seal.. only install dry if the directions say so for the seal. some are pre lubed with a dry lubricant. that one isnt. ( also before pounding in the new seal put some red locktite around the outer metal edge this helps seal that area. i have done 100's of seals this way no problems:bigthumb: by the time the gear oil reaches and lubes the seal lip normally to late. if the other sides not leaking dont mess with it....

if you dont follow these steps better keep them in stock lol
 

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oh btw the 175a seal u got should be for f350 with duals 177a is for single wheel have parts guy pull both u will see
 

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I did not slather grease on the seal. I did, however put a shot of gear oil in before I put the axle in. The surface was clean and still is, although as would be expected, it goes from polish spindle to rough rusty surface. I am wondering if this seal rides a bit further inboard than the last one. The seal is definitely destroyed, so the greasing could be the culprit. The part# on the Ford invoice is CC3Z1S175A which does not match the suggested part above.

This is what the seal looks like after only 800 miles

View attachment 427682

And the spindle (if that is the correct) looks like

View attachment 427690

So, here is the tough question. When I get a new seal, do I need to get 2? Do I presume that the other side will fail still? Or is it possible I got lucky on one side and not the other? I read 2 or 3 very detailed and picture heavy threads about doing this job and honestly I never saw anyone grease the seal. I can see why it is a good idea, I just never thought to do it. Is there any grease that is better than another?

Thanks for the input.

Lee
Like was stated no lube on the seal will burn it up. Some seals also come pre lubed.

However that rusty spindle is most likely the problem. If the seal so much as touches that rust it will ruin the new seal. I'd try to remove as much of it as you can with some fine sandpaper. This will give you a way better chance of success. You may end up having to replace that spindle.

Back in the day someone in the aftermarket made repair seals for this problem. The lip of the new seal rode further out on the spindle. This gave the seals lip a cleaner surface to ride on. Don't know if they are still available.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for posting those links but I have to admit I feel like the wording is ambiguous. The first one says F350 w/o dual wheels. The 2nd, says F250, F350, w/dual wheels. First off, have they ever factory built an F250 w/dual wheels? The 2nd link implies that it is for an F250 OR F350 OR "w/dual wheels". The 2nd comma is poorly placed (in my opinion). The screenshot below is from Ford Parts site using my VIN and shows the seal the guy sold me. Also note that photo of the seal shows that it was pre-greased, but honestly I can't recall. It did definitely have the red locktite on the outside of the frame. I am not really sure where to go from here!

Seal.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Like was stated no lube on the seal will burn it up. Some seals also come pre lubed.

However that rusty spindle is most likely the problem. If the seal so much as touches that rust it will ruin the new seal. I'd try to remove as much of it as you can with some fine sandpaper. This will give you a way better chance of success. You may end up having to replace that spindle.

Back in the day someone in the aftermarket made repair seals for this problem. The lip of the new seal rode further out on the spindle. This gave the seals lip a cleaner surface to ride on. Don't know if they are still available.
Based on my other post, I think that you are on to something with this rusty spindle. I really am not prepared to replace that spindle this week! I wonder if this elusive two part seal is the answer. I just don't know how to put my hands on one. If I understand the 2 part seal correctly, it provides new surfaces for both sides of the seal.

The timing on this is all wrong. If I wasn't leaving on a trip next week, I would consider cleaning it up and trying the same seal (new part, same part #) again. But, I could easily burn through that seal on the first day.

Ugh!
 

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Thanks for posting those links but I have to admit I feel like the wording is ambiguous. The first one says F350 w/o dual wheels. The 2nd, says F250, F350, w/dual wheels. First off, have they ever factory built an F250 w/dual wheels? The 2nd link implies that it is for an F250 OR F350 OR "w/dual wheels". The 2nd comma is poorly placed (in my opinion). The screenshot below is from Ford Parts site using my VIN and shows the seal the guy sold me. Also note that photo of the seal shows that it was pre-greased, but honestly I can't recall. It did definitely have the red locktite on the outside of the frame. I am not really sure where to go from here!

View attachment 427858


grrrr f250/350 single wheel axle is the same
you dont have dual wheels so you need the single wheel axle seal.............thats why there is 2 different part #'s:banghead:

the rust would have been worn off if the seal was riding on it.. i SAID have parts guy pull both seals and look at the difference they should have both in stock
 

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Discussion Starter #12
grrrr f250/350 single wheel axle is the same
you dont have dual wheels so you need the single wheel axle seal.............thats why there is 2 different part #'s:banghead:

the rust would have been worn off if the seal was riding on it.. i SAID have parts guy pull both seals and look at the difference they should have both in stock
I didn't mean to cause you to bang your head in frustration. It frustrates me how unclear the website can be. I am going over after work but I believe I will be leaving with the other seals (per your suggestion). I don't want to curse myself, but that is the plan!

Lee
 

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Thanks for posting those links but I have to admit I feel like the wording is ambiguous. The first one says F350 w/o dual wheels. The 2nd, says F250, F350, w/dual wheels. First off, have they ever factory built an F250 w/dual wheels? The 2nd link implies that it is for an F250 OR F350 OR "w/dual wheels". The 2nd comma is poorly placed (in my opinion). The screenshot below is from Ford Parts site using my VIN and shows the seal the guy sold me. Also note that photo of the seal shows that it was pre-greased, but honestly I can't recall. It did definitely have the red locktite on the outside of the frame. I am not really sure where to go from here!

View attachment 427858

trying to help here what you have pulled up is the front axle seal the 1175# on your link. 177a # is for the rear axle
buy all the seals take them home see which is correct return the unused ones. oh and 2 part seal ? thats a good one... its a one piece seal
 

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Discussion Starter #14
trying to help here what you have pulled up is the front axle seal the 1175# on your link. 177a # is for the rear axle
buy all the seals take them home see which is correct return the unused ones. oh and 2 part seal ? thats a good one... its a one piece seal
I did more reading and the "2 part seal" is also called a Scott Seal. My local shop around the corner insists that it is the only way to go. I am going to try the "correct" seal first. Dealer said, "umm, yeah, it looks like we gave you the front seal. Sorry for the inconvenience". He did admit that they are really close. Yeah, no kidding, it went in so I would say it is close!
 

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I did more reading and the "2 part seal" is also called a Scott Seal. My local shop around the corner insists that it is the only way to go. I am going to try the "correct" seal first. Dealer said, "umm, yeah, it looks like we gave you the front seal. Sorry for the inconvenience". He did admit that they are really close. Yeah, no kidding, it went in so I would say it is close!

well there you go... glad you finally confirmed it.. make them refund your money for the wrong seals ect

good parts guys are hard to find these days:greentractorride:
 

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I did more reading and the "2 part seal" is also called a Scott Seal. My local shop around the corner insists that it is the only way to go. I am going to try the "correct" seal first. Dealer said, "umm, yeah, it looks like we gave you the front seal. Sorry for the inconvenience". He did admit that they are really close. Yeah, no kidding, it went in so I would say it is close!
If that 2 piece seal is what I'm thinking about. It has a metal sleeve that fits over the damaged spindle. Then the seal is made slightly larger. This will let it fit over the sleeve.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The part the dealer gave me is definitely a 2 piece seal. There are two metal rings that move independently. Everything went together like it was meant to be. Having the right parts really changes the job. This is what he gave me this time.

IMG_20170809_163907292.jpg
IMG_20170809_163933525.jpg

Thanks again for all of the input. Hopefully this is the last time I have to mess with this one.

Lee
 

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If that 2 piece seal is what I'm thinking about. It has a metal sleeve that fits over the damaged spindle. Then the seal is made slightly larger. This will let it fit over the sleeve.
:dunno: is this what i have seen fellas call a speedy sleeve seal?

a lot fellas that had left the seals leak for awhile on their trailer axles then had to use a speedy sleeve-due to the spindle wearing a hair-and the original size seal wouldn't hold anymore.:dunno:that was many yrs ago for me-so i can't just remember to good.
 
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