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So far, I can't see what the dealer has done wrong. The radiator is caked with debris, which the owner has verified that there are portions that he cannot see light through. The dealer has said the oil doesn't look right.
What would you expect a mechanic to do in this case? Not tell the customer? The OP has not elaborated on the $1400.00 repair mentioned in the title of the thread. What does that include?
And by the way, in my experience it is common for debris to cake on the back of the radiators. It seems like dirt and dust (especially when moisture, antifreeze, or oil is present), get flung by the fan, and stick.
It seems like the OP has been edited but it was originally suggested that the radiator needed to be replaced, and that cost would be $1400.

As for what I would expect the dealer to do in this case (I realize your question was rhetorical to the whole group but I'll answer anyway LOL), I would expect the dealer to give a quote for cleaning the radiator rather than just saying "looks dirty, you need a new one". Add to the fact that the OP claims that the engine was not running hot and had no indication of a performance issue while using it....this all seems like a lot of projection and assumptions on the dealer's part to get a $1400 radiator sold to the OP. But I could be wrong <shrug>
 

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A good dealer would have said;

Mr. customer. we've found crap blocking the radiator, and the oil looks a little dark indicating excessive heating may have occurred. We'll clean the radiator and change the oil with JD diesel oil. In the future clean the radiator using a water hose and maybe even a little detergent. DO NOT USE A PRESSURE WASHER.

I had an NH dealer sell me an X580 with the promise to upgrade with full refund if I upgraded during the next year. I went to them to upgrade to an X7xx and they then said they don't take trades. My goal at the time was to avoid taxes. When the dealer told me they wouldn't take a trade on a 20-hour machine as promised I went shopping. I ended up purchasing the X7xx from a dealer 25 miles away who is now a member of the United AG group. I pay taxes, have bought two (2) tractors from them, I buy all of my attachments from them, they handle all of my service, and I couldn't be happier. A short drive may be in the OP's future, but changing dealers is what I would be doing.
 

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If Deere is getting involved, the first points I would bring up to them would be:

(1) IF the tractor was overheating as the dealer claims, then why didn't the PTO ever shut off?
(2) IF the tractor was overheating, then why didn't the temp gauge ever show it?
(3 Why didn't the overheating warning ever light come on?

Either this dealer is full of it, or the tractor has major safety and electrical issues. My guess is it's the dealer.
 

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A good dealer would have said;

Mr. customer. we've found crap blocking the radiator, and the oil looks a little dark indicating excessive heating may have occurred. We'll clean the radiator and change the oil with JD diesel oil. In the future clean the radiator using a water hose and maybe even a little detergent. DO NOT USE A PRESSURE WASHER.

I had an NH dealer sell me an X580 with the promise to upgrade with full refund if I upgraded during the next year. I went to them to upgrade to an X7xx and they then said they don't take trades. My goal at the time was to avoid taxes. When the dealer told me they wouldn't take a trade on a 20-hour machine as promised I went shopping. I ended up purchasing the X7xx from a dealer 25 miles away who is now a member of the United AG group. I pay taxes, have bought two (2) tractors from them, I buy all of my attachments from them, they handle all of my service, and I couldn't be happier. A short drive may be in the OP's future, but changing dealers is what I would be doing.
I may have fell for that word of mouth blabbing promise when younger but since then I've learned to get everything in written language and signed . He gets a copy and I get a copy . That usually stops that B S in it's tracks .
 

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…Reminds me of the time I walked into the local stealer to get a tip on how they greases the front U Joint on the 10 series. The "really sharp" service tech looked me in the eye with a real clever look on his face and said "ya don't."
This is exactly why I do all of my own maintenance. it’s the only way to be certain that the job was done right, or perhaps more importantly, know what corners were cut.
 

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After reading this thread, I gather that the only current issues are that the radiator needs a good cleaning and the oil "looks" to be in poor condition with possible engine damage. If there were any actual engine damage, there would be actual inspection / testing that could be performed to confirm the suspected damage. Such as compression test, oil pressure test and cooling system pressure test. But before running through these tests, there would be noticeable signs of an issue. Burning coolant/ excessive smoke from the exhaust, low coolant level, engine noise or mis fire and possible metal in the oil. If the tractor is operation normally, a thorough documentation of the lack of the OPs having "no-issues" and the dealer's findings about the oil and radiator condition and no other operating issues, should be made on the invoice. Continue operating the tractor as usual and have the oil changed in a short time. Have the oil tested as stated. Cover all the bases and all should be well. Just my two cents.
 

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Important Facts to keep in mind.

1. Deere's warranty statement expressly states that ONLY Deere can offer any warranty coverage and No one can modify the terms of their warranty coverage. Specifically, it states in Section F. of the warranty terms

""F. NO DEALER WARRANTY – The selling dealer makes no warranty of its own and the dealer has no authority to make any representation or promise on behalf of John Deere, or to modify the terms or limitations of this warranty in any way. ""

2. From the Operator's Manual, Page titled "Fire Prevention"

  • A build up of grass, crop material and other debris may occur during normal operation. This is especially true when operating in very dry conditions or conditions where airborne crop material or crop dust is present. Any such build up must be removed to ensure proper machine function and to reduce the risk of fire. The tractor must be inspected and cleaned periodically throughout the day.
  • Regular and thorough cleaning of the tractor combined with other routine maintenance procedures listed in the Operator’s Manual greatly reduce the risk of fire and the chance of costly downtime.
3. From the Operators Manual, Page titled Clean Radiator Fuel and Transmission Cooling Fins

IMPORTANT:

Avoid damage! Reduced air intake can cause overheating. Keep radiator cooling fins clean.

Do not use pressure washers to clean radiator cooling fins. The force produced by pressure washers can damage the radiator and cooling fins.

Reduce compressed air pressure to 210 kPa (2.1 bar) (30 psi) when cleaning radiator and cooling fins. Spray compressed air straight into radiator. Do not spray the radiator on an angle or cooling fins can be bent.


Clearly, cleaning the radiator and all cooling system components is part of the normal machine operational maintenance. I agree this shouldn't automatically be a "warranty claim" because the cooling system needs to be maintained. Let's be honest, its discussed constantly here on GTT when these machines are used for mowing, whether with the MMM or a rear 3ph mower.

With that said, I also don't see any evidence of the machine being "extremely overheated". Such evidence to support a claim of extensive overheating would include;
  1. The coolant level being low as a result of the boiling of the coolant from excessive overheating.
  2. The coolant would smell burnt.
  3. The tractor would have had puddles underneath it from boiling out the coolant, No mention of this happening.
  4. The owner / operator denies seeing the temp gauage in the "overheated position".
  5. The PTO should have shut down when the machine reaches a threshold temp. No mention of this happening by the owner of the machine.
  6. The dealer didn't mention about the coolant level being low or at least it wasn't reported in this thread.
  7. The alleged "film" in the oil drain pan means nothing. The pan was extremely contaiminated from prior use so there is no way to know what was in the pan before it was emptied from its last use.
  8. Chances are, the oil catch pan wasn't cleaned before this motor oil was drained into it. Therefore whatever is in the drain pan could be from any of prior oil changes or other fluid changes.
  9. I wouldn't waste the money having the oil sample tested. Its so contaminated from what else is in the drain pan, it would be like getting a Urine sample for a drug test for someone from a public toilet bowl after a days normal use by random people. Very questionable results at best. Plus I wouldn't want any results attribuited to my machine when it the sample source is really unknown.
  10. Put new oil in the engine, run it, test that oil down the road if you feel the need. Otherwise, the process is a waste of time and money and could show results which are completely wrong.
If this were my machine, here is exactly what I would do.

  • Change the engine oil and use a Synthetic Diesel Motor Oil with the viscosity based upon the machines use climate.
  • I would clean the radiator and restore proper cooling. It can be soaked or a number of other ways to clean the radiaitor. Unless I was unable to restore air flow to the entire radiator, replacement isn't necessary.
  • I would change the coolant if there are any signs it was boiled or the protection of the coolant is questionalbe. Otherwise, I would simply top off the coolant to the proper level once the cleaning and air flow of the radiator is completed.
  • I would verify the coolant system is functioning as is should be and the temp guage in the dash is working, etc.
  • I would purchase the air and water cleaning wands for keeping the radiator cleaned in the future.
  • Use the machine for the purposes purchased and ignore the service departments comments about the machine being too small or unsuitable for mowing and 3ph cutting.
  • Maintain the machine as outlined and I wouldn't be pushed into any service which is outside of the scheduled maintenance if it in any way alludes to the "10 year warranty", as the dealer isn't permitted to offer any warranty terms outside of what Deere states in their warranty statement for the machine.

As is often the case when a machine owner gets a call from the Dealer telling them their machine needs large repairs and that warranty is not going to cover it, the initial reaction from the owner is rage and disappointment. When this happens, the details get murky and things tend to get twisted and distorted very quickly.

Now, let's step back and take a closer look. Are some of their claims valid? Hard to say as the facts don't all align.

A. - Is the radiator partially obstructed and likely impairing cooling? Yes.
B. - Does that mean the radiator MUST be replaced? Not unless it can not be cleaned and cooling function restored.
C. - Does the owner have responsibility for keeping the air flow for cooling unobstructed and allow the machine to be cooled? Yes, without any doubt.
D. Is a $1,400 repair warranted based upon the facts presented so far? No.
E. Was the machine actually overheating? Evidence doesn't support such a finding as the owner denies the PTO being shut down while mowing and he also denies the temp gauge showing the engine running hot.

Who's in the wrong and who's in the right? It's not that simple as the findings so far aren't supported by the usual evidence. That's why I would proceed as outlined above. I would also be prepared to pay the costs for the service, including the radiator cleaning. With all of the unresolved issues, I would want an estimate to proceed with the service when attempting to clean the radiator. I would also want to be very clear at what point the replacement of the radiator should happen and what the costs should be for this repair if the existing radiator can't be cleaned.

Beyond that, I would get the machine back in service and use it and then have the motor oil tested if there are any concerns about the power, the engines operation or if you simply want a baseline of the engines health at this point after these issues. All of the rest is like dust swirling in the wind, it does nothing to help and only makes it harder to see the facts at hand.................
 

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1. Deere's warranty statement expressly states that ONLY Deere can offer any warranty coverage and No one can modify the terms of their warranty coverage. Specifically, it states in Section F. of the warranty terms

""F. NO DEALER WARRANTY – The selling dealer makes no warranty of its own and the dealer has no authority to make any representation or promise on behalf of John Deere, or to modify the terms or limitations of this warranty in any way. ""
Thought I read that in my manuals. Thanks for verifying, SulleyBear.
  1. The alleged "film" in the oil drain pan means nothing. The pan was extremely contaiminated from prior use so there is no way to know what was in the pan before it was emptied from its last use.
  2. Chances are, the oil catch pan wasn't cleaned before this motor oil was drained into it. Therefore whatever is in the drain pan could be from any of prior oil changes or other fluid changes.
  3. I wouldn't waste the money having the oil sample tested. Its so contaminated from what else is in the drain pan, it would be like getting a Urine sample for a drug test for someone from a public toilet bowl after a days normal use by random people. Very questionable results at best. Plus I wouldn't want any results attribuited to my machine when it the sample source is really unknown.
Exactly what I was thinking when the oil analysis was mentioned. Whatever oil the dealer gave you now also contains oil from other machines as well as hydraulic fluid, gear lube, diesel fuel, coolant and whatever else the mechanic drained into his pan. Oil sampling is a great idea but, save it for next time. As mentioned, you'll need to know what brand and weight of oil the sample is (for example, Shell Rotella T 15W-40), how many hours are on it (note hourmeter at fill and drain), and I'm sure knowing how long it's been in the engine (dates in/out of service) wouldn't hurt either.
 

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Deere 1025r, 60D mower, Frontier BB2048, Frontier RC2048, Titan Attachments Pallet Fork
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Deere has informed the dealer that it's up to the owner to insure that both the front and back of the radiator is cleaned. You'll find this buried in the owner's manual on pg 230-7: "Using compressed air or water, remove all dirt and debris from fins at front and rear of the following - Radiator, including fan shroud, transmission oil cooler".

Tri Green dealer asked Deere "how can you expect the owner to clean the back of the radiator?". Deere's reply is to tell the owner to buy the magical Deere water wand for $39. But, if you use the magical water wand and it clogs up the fins with mud you again are out of luck. So, heads up to all 1025R owners: Get an air compressor and air comb to clean the back of your radiator. Factory warranty or not it's on the owner to figure out how to clean the back of the radiator.

To answer questions from those replying to this post: I have 160 hours on my 20 month old 1025R. I clean the screen and front of the radiator after every use whether bush hogging or mowing. The dealer advised they could pull the radiator and try to clean it, but not likely successful with caked mud. In addition, most of the repair charge is in the labor.

Deere will not cover under warranty, but they have agreed to share a portion of the repair cost. Better than nothing. But, this whole situation has soured me on Deere. I'll keep using the thing until the wheels fall off. However, I'll never buy another piece of Deere equipment again. I expect more from Deere than referring to weasel words in a manual about a maintenance procedure that can't be done without a compressor and an air comb.
 

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I've never heard anything like this on tractors...I've cleaned many radiators with hoses and air, and changed oil....this whole affair seems like a mountain out of a mole hill....
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
I guess I'm not a "Deere enthusiast" anymore. Get jabbed by Deere and you too may find out the true meaning of Green Tractor. Your green and lots of it for a company and product that's no better than anything else on the market.
 

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Sounds like the OP got it semi sorted.

In the interest of debate - Without knowing the manufacturer/authorized dealer contract between Deere and it's dealer network - It's reasonable that this "dealer" Warranty of "get all maintenance done here, we cover any failures" is a legitimate thing. (Mind you my opinion on it is: the practice is questionable at best, as evidenced by this thread and ill intentioned realistically.)

This section:
""F. NO DEALER WARRANTY – The selling dealer makes no warranty of its own and the dealer has no authority to make any representation or promise on behalf of John Deere, or to modify the terms or limitations of this warranty in any way. ""
The points that I take from this are:
  • No Dealer Warranty..." indicates this warranty the contract is defining is not a dealer warranty, its a manufacturer warranty.
  • "The selling dealer makes no warranty of its own" I interpret this: The selling dealer can not add/change/remove any terms of the warranty as defined on this contract.
  • "The selling dealer has no authority to make representation or promise on behalf of John Deere." This language states "on behalf of John Deere". Without being able to read the manufacturer/dealer agreement - this doesn't state that the dealer, on behalf of the dealers owner(s), whom are not John Deere Corp cannot enter a private contract with the buyer.

A contract between two parties can be for basically anything lawful in the jurisdiction the contract is stated. Buyer and selling dealer can agree (assuming there isn't specific language in the deere corp/deere dealer agreemebt(s) prohibiting this) to any terms they want. The terms in this case, if you do all your preventive maintenance here at our dealership, we'll (dealer ownership, not JD corp) be responsible to cover any repairs on the tractor for the next 5/10/15/200 years.

I could make a similar offer to anyone - If you pay me $150000/yr, I'll cover specific failures of someone else's widget, even while that widget is covered by the widget's manufacturer warranty. Many companies already do this, (squaretrade?) The point being - unless one party is prohibited from entering a contract (like employment non-competes) and the contract covers a lawful activity in that jurisdiction its reasonable to conclude its a valid contract if all parties agree. Granted it's much easier to prove/hold accountable for non-performance when it's a written contract, the good old handshake works too among honorable people.

SB: Not picking on you, I'm stating my non-lawyer holiday inn interpretation of the situation. I'm not stating your wrong and I'm right in any way - Just looking for meaningful debate on the topic. 😀 I'll very likely learn something!

Finally I'd really be interested to hear JD Corp's take on the "warranty" that this dealer is offering, if my interpretation isn't valid and they are offering something conflicting with JD Corp.
 

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2015 2025r 62mmm h130 af10f plow forks 62 disc ripper and a woods m5 Dixie mower
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Wow I have never heard anything like this sounds like the dealer doesn’t want to deal with cleaning it I bush hoged with my 1025r no big problems other than the front wheels coming off the gound sad that it has to come down to that
 

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I'd take it home and clean it yourself for free. $1400 can buy lots of tractor gadgets.
 

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If your temp gauge never got in the red, if the warning light never came on, if the PTO never shut down - it is pretty safe to say your tractor never overheated.

At best, your radiator is partially blocked. This would only be an issue on the hottest day of the year with the hardest load your tractor could pull.

Unless it is concrete, it can be cleaned. Typical dust debris is not that hard to clean.

It is a tractor. It is meant to work in the conditions that you are using it for.

Deere's response was based on the information that your dealer gave them - they were driving the bus that ran over you.

The basic maintenance to keep your tractor serviced is not that hard. Most of the routine stuff is in the manual. What you don't understand we can help you with.

Get your money back for that "service plan". Bring your tractor home and learn how to take care of the basics. It isn't that hard and we are all here to help you learn.
 

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We have quite a few car places near us that pull this bulls*. On a tractor I have used foaming radiator cleaner and water hose to clean those. "Dark used oil" - of course it is, LOL.
(Sounds like a SCAM).

OP learn to do your own maintenance, just hauling tractor to a dealer and back typically takes more time. When I do the work I know I cleaned magnetic trap, lubed every bearing, sharpened my blades... I use pressure washer (not on the radiator of course) to make my equipment look like new and stop and seal rust.
 

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Op, I have ran mine through tall grass and had the radiator so full of grass if you turned the pto on for 10 mins it would get to the red and shut the pto off! all I did to fix it was let it cool completely down and wash the radiator out from the back side with a garden hose.
No more overheating since 🙂👍🏻 I threw in the pic of the hours just to show that this is how it has been used since new.
Speedometer Odometer Trip computer Gauge Tachometer

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Here is some pictures of the very first time I used mine.I put 40hrs on it the first month bush hogging alone 🙂👍🏻 hopefully my pictures and my gtt friends will help you feel better about your situation. You've done nothing wrong and you have a 99.9% that the tractor is still good as new since it didn't shut the pto off.
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