Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys n Gals,
Has anyone had a hydraulic filter seal blow and loose all hydraulic fluid? I am not sure yet, but it seems that my seal blew on the hydraulic filter. At first I thought I blew a steering hose. But looking at the hoses today, and where the oil made the muddy underside wet, I really believe the filter blew. Had oil seeping out between the plastic under the seat and around the 3 point hitch drop adjuster. I lost it all from the time I backed up and dumped a load out of the FEL. I am unsure if it damaged the pump or tranny. Any ideas, help or suggestions would be helpful. I know the first thing is to pull the filter, check the seal. But the pump was making really strange noises. Only ran 5 seconds after I realized what happened. Everything happened in 30 to 45 seconds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
A family friend had a hard line fail right near the oil filter (1025R - not many hours). It appeared to be the filter at first. The dealer replaced the line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
A family friend had a hard line fail right near the oil filter (1025R - not many hours). It appeared to be the filter at first. The dealer replaced the line.
\
I am nearing 400 hours, it is a 2013 and out of warranty by 2 months. If I pull the filter and all is OK will call dealer for help. That is something that should not happen regardless of the hours years, unless rusted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
or it could have been a rub point failure. Good luck.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,136 Posts
I haven't had the hydraulic filter blow and don't know why it would unless it was coming loose, which this could happen. The filter is actually the charge pressure filter for the tractor propel (forward/reverse) pump and motor, so it is a high pressure filter so it must be installed pretty snugly. This filter filters the oil prior to it entering the piston propel pump/motor.

When the seal blew in the filter, the propel pump/motor system would have lost most or all of the system charge pressure which will starve the propel pump/motor for oil. If you shut it down right away, it should be OK. Do not start the tractor until you get the filter replaced and the sump filled with fresh oil. Even though you are not driving the tractor, the propel pump is still turning and needs to have charge oil to keep things lubricated.

The propel pump/motor is all internal in the differential. It is a piston pump and motor that hates dirty oil. These types of systems are also supplied with oil by another pump. In the 1025R, this other pump is the attachment pump. A percentage of flow from the attachment pump is used for charge oil for the propel system.

The propel system is actually a closed loop between the piston pump and the piston motor so it does not take allot of replacement oil. That said, there is engineered leakage built into the pump/motor system. The leakage oil is used for cooling and allows for recycling of oil. The charge system is what supplies the make up oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I haven't had the hydraulic filter blow and don't know why it would unless it was coming loose, which this could happen. The filter is actually the charge pressure filter for the tractor propel (forward/reverse) pump and motor, so it is a high pressure filter so it must be installed pretty snugly. This filter filters the oil prior to it entering the piston propel pump/motor.

When the seal blew in the filter, the propel pump/motor system would have lost most or all of the system charge pressure which will starve the propel pump/motor for oil. If you shut it down right away, it should be OK. Do not start the tractor until you get the filter replaced and the sump filled with fresh oil. Even though you are not driving the tractor, the propel pump is still turning and needs to have charge oil to keep things lubricated.

The propel pump/motor is all internal in the differential. It is a piston pump and motor that hates dirty oil. These types of systems are also supplied with oil by another pump. In the 1025R, this other pump is the attachment pump. A percentage of flow from the attachment pump is used for charge oil for the propel system.

The propel system is actually a closed loop between the piston pump and the piston motor so it does not take allot of replacement oil. That said, there is engineered leakage built into the pump/motor system. The leakage oil is used for cooling and allows for recycling of oil. The charge system is what supplies the make up oil.
Ray, what I am hearing is that the filter, if pressure is lost would almost immediately cause the loss of drive. Especially pouring a couple gallons per minute. Will call the dealer tomorrow AM. They put in the hydraulic lift, and may very well have created the rub point. I never had it apart for anything, so.....

Filter was changed almost a year ago, and I make sure things are tight. Did not seem to be loose, as I tried that. Could not get a great grip b/c of oil.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,136 Posts
Ray, what I am hearing is that the filter, if pressure is lost would almost immediately cause the loss of drive. Especially pouring a couple gallons per minute. Will call the dealer tomorrow AM. They put in the hydraulic lift, and may very well have created the rub point. I never had it apart for anything, so.....

Filter was changed almost a year ago, and I make sure things are tight. Did not seem to be loose, as I tried that. Could not get a great grip b/c of oil.
If the filter blew and you lost all charge pressure, which would most likely happen if the filter blew, your propel system would lose charge pressure which would cause the propel pump/motor to starve for oil and would stop propelling. This may not happen immediately although, it would happen with in a short amount of time.
As you obviously know now, when and if this charge pressure filter blows, you will loose a lot of oil pretty quickly.

These tractors are not very large and do not have allot of space to cram all the things in them that JD does.

Good luck!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,067 Posts
If the filter just worked loose, it might leak without a complete loss of everything. If you haven't already removed it, try and tighten it so you can see if it loosened up before taking it off. Check your fluid level, the strange noise you heard may be cavitation because it has leaked out enough oil that the pump is picking up air. If that's the only problem, serious damage is unlikely if you caught it quickly and stopped using it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
If the filter just worked loose, it might leak without a complete loss of everything. If you haven't already removed it, try and tighten it so you can see if it loosened up before taking it off. Check your fluid level, the strange noise you heard may be cavitation because it has leaked out enough oil that the pump is picking up air. If that's the only problem, serious damage is unlikely if you caught it quickly and stopped using it.
Well was in the middle of replacing my drainage pipe in front of the house, 165 feet worth. Doing a start up of a new plant, so today is my first unwind day. The filter was not loose. But the hydraulic filter o ring pushed out off the sealing surface. Dumped all fluid. But traveled prolly a total of 100 feet, and dumped a bucket load half way between. So it did not loose charge until pump stopped pump ing from the sump. Changed filter and refilled. No issues, but JD was notified in case of future failure. Won't pay it off early, as I have the insurance.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,308 Posts
You should be fine, hydraulic systems will generally survive a loss of fluid without damage, they'll just start sucking air.

You caught it quick, I would not worry about it failing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SulleyBear

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,055 Posts
Well was in the middle of replacing my drainage pipe in front of the house, 165 feet worth. Doing a start up of a new plant, so today is my first unwind day. The filter was not loose. But the hydraulic filter o ring pushed out off the sealing surface. Dumped all fluid. But traveled prolly a total of 100 feet, and dumped a bucket load half way between. So it did not loose charge until pump stopped pump ing from the sump. Changed filter and refilled. No issues, but JD was notified in case of future failure. Won't pay it off early, as I have the insurance.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I have had a couple of instances over the years where I lost a large volume of hydraulic fluid. One was when I was in the middle of the road and the steel line which provides the fluid from the pump to the point of the hydraulic line connectors split and was spraying fluid all over. I had the snow blower on and immediately lost the ability to lift the blower so I backed home dragging the blower about 200 feet (leaving a hydraulic "stripe" the entire way on the road surface and driveway). As I approached the garage, the cavitation noise was very noticeable and sounds very wicked and the momentum of the tractor was moving quite slowly and rapidly declining as I approached home. I should point out that it was also -11 degrees air temp when this happened and there was a 20 mph wind.

I first thought I had broken one of the hoses but the steel line was much more complicated to replace. I refilled the system with fluid and returned to use after the repairs. This summer I tore down the entire rear end and checked for signs of wear in the pump and impeller and plates, etc, and was pleasantly surprised to find no signs of damage or wear. I have since the incident put three hundred hours on the tractor without any issues.

Any ideas as to why the filter seal failed? Was it cut or damaged in any way or just forced out of the recess on the filter? I generally snug the filter by hand and then tighten no more than 1/4 turn with a filter tool. I actually mark the filter because it's hard to judge that 1/4 turn without a reference point on the filter.

Just curious, Was the filter that had the o-ring failure a Deere source or supplied hydro filter?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Oh it was Mother Deeres. Was kind of bulged out, more from the sealing surface than anything. Lost the pics, sorry. The o ring was quite deformed even when off. Must have had a hell of a pressure to do that. Was hard to get off so was not loose. I tighten by hand and then some with my strap. Use printing on filter to judge. Never had this happen before. Good to hear yours was ok. Mine lost it much quicker. 45 seconds at most. Had full synthetic in it too, not hyguard.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I have the same problem

Guys n Gals,
Has anyone had a hydraulic filter seal blow and loose all hydraulic fluid? I am not sure yet, but it seems that my seal blew on the hydraulic filter. At first I thought I blew a steering hose. But looking at the hoses today, and where the oil made the muddy underside wet, I really believe the filter blew. Had oil seeping out between the plastic under the seat and around the 3 point hitch drop adjuster. I lost it all from the time I backed up and dumped a load out of the FEL. I am unsure if it damaged the pump or tranny. Any ideas, help or suggestions would be helpful. I know the first thing is to pull the filter, check the seal. But the pump was making really strange noises. Only ran 5 seconds after I realized what happened. Everything happened in 30 to 45 seconds.
I have a 1026R that has about 100 hours on it and it is about 5 years old. The original hydraulic filter blew out the seal and lost all of the oil, I replaced it and the second filter lasted about 30 minutes before it blew out the seal on the oil filter. The third filter lasted about 1 hour before it blew out the seal. The second filter was tightened to specifications, 1 turn after seating, the third filter was tightened to 1 and 1/8 turns. The tractor is now at the dealer and they have no Idea what is causing this, ANYONE have any idea what can cause the pressure to increase and blow out the seals???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,002 Posts
I have a 1026R that has about 100 hours on it and it is about 5 years old. The original hydraulic filter blew out the seal and lost all of the oil, I replaced it and the second filter lasted about 30 minutes before it blew out the seal on the oil filter. The third filter lasted about 1 hour before it blew out the seal. The second filter was tightened to specifications, 1 turn after seating, the third filter was tightened to 1 and 1/8 turns. The tractor is now at the dealer and they have no Idea what is causing this, ANYONE have any idea what can cause the pressure to increase and blow out the seals???
You already have your own thread about this -

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/sub-compact-utility-tractors-scut/167186-1026r-hydraulic-filter-failed-3-times.html
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top