Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I posted a thread about heat issues in the Mauser cab last winter and again winter is just around the corner and I’m looking for suggestions.

My tractor runs great in the summer and winter. However, it does not build enough heat at temperatures lower than 0DegreesF to really get the benefits you should with a Mauser cab.
The owners manual specifically cautions about blocking airflow to the radiator. In the northern states this has been a normal thing to do in cars in years gone by. Changing the thermostat to a higher temperature one for winter seems to be what John Deere expects you to do if you want more heat in the cab. Weather fronts were common on trucks years ago but no longer seem to be necessary. How did the trucking industry solve this problem?

Blocking the radiator in extreme cold doesn’t cause the engine to overheat in the hour or two needed to move snow. Moving snow is not like mowing grass. Mowing grass is done at high RPM while moving snow rarely requires high RPM under most conditions. Even at high RPM’s the ambient temperature of -20F still dissipates the heat well enough to barely move the temperature gauge off the bottom.

What can be damaged by partially or fully blocking the radiator if the engine is not overheating? Wouldn’t it actually be worse for a Diesel engine to NOT achieve normal operating temperature for an hour or two?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,133 Posts
Bottom line, blocking off the radiator doesn't damage the engine, overheating is what damages the engine.

Now, the issue is, if you block off the radiator, you are going to have to watch your temp gauge to make sure you didn't block off too much. So, the question is, will you watch the gauge to make sure it does not overheat. If you can, go for it.

It is very normal for a diesel engine to not generator much heat in the cold temps, as the heat in the engine is absorbed by combustion and the heat is evacuated in the exhaust. Because the ambient temp is low around the engine, the engine itself is not getting super hot in the cold temps. Now, just because the engine does not get super hot does not mean combustion temps are low.

You cannot evaluate the actual engine temp of a diesel engine the same as a gasoline engine. Diesels, it is more about combustion temps which results in exhaust temps.

This is why pyrometers are used on diesel engines that have been fueled up to increase HP. Exhaust temps are the big deal on a diesel.

So, what can you do to increase actual engine temps, block of some of the radiator. Start with closing a portion of the radiator and see how that works. If not enough, close of slightly more. Again, you will have to watch the temp gauge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
I only owned a Mauser cab briefly--till I found it wouldn't clear the supplemental backhoe frame mounts. In that period, I noted a few things that were of concern in regards to the heater installation:

1. The size of the heater hoses were rather small. I'm thinking 3/8" hose or a metric equivalent a bit larger. I found out the hard and cold way that the diameter of the heater supply lines is critical when I got cheap setting up a service truck (step van) build. I reduced the size of the pipe feeding the rear heater from 3/4 to 1/2. It made a huge difference in the lack of heater performance.

I'd research if it is possible to fish a larger diameter hose up the cab pillars to the heater core. If not, I'd run larger hose, 5/8", to the bottom of the pillars and then reduce down.

2. The Mauser cab installation instructions have the heater feed connecting to the block drain plug location. This would result in coolant being fed to the heater that was just introduced into the engine block from the radiator. I'd change this so the connection was at the top of the block, just before heated the coolant is returned to the radiator or re-circulated if the thermostat is closed. See this thread I authored for details.

I ended up utilizing the Cozy Cabs, the heater is not huge by any means. However, it will cook me out of the cab. I typically have the water valve partially closed to limit the flow and, in turn, the heat output. The fan is almost always on low, unless I'm trying to clear the glass.

My other complaint with the Cozy heater is that it just re-circulates air in the cab. It doesn't draw, fresh, outside, air into the cab. Outside air is very dry, low humidity, in the winter, so it keeps the windows from fogging. I believe the Mauser heater does draw outside air, so that is a big plus, in my opinion. If you up the coolant flow and temperature, I believe you'll have a winning combination.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
I wonder if running it closer to PTO engine speed would be enough. I have to use high rpm with my 2305 for the snow blower and no heat issues with the tektite cab and heater.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Weather fronts were common on trucks years ago but no longer seem to be necessary. How did the trucking industry solve this problem?
I don't deal with larger trucks but I suspect they did the same thing that rest of the auto industry did. If you look at (or recall) the cars of the '50s, '60s and early 70s, the radiator cooling fan ran the entire time the engine was running. In the latter 70s/early 80s, they started putting in fan clutches so the fan would kick in/out at specific RPMs. Now all the fans seem to be electric. They put a temp sensor on the radiator and the fan only comes on when the radiator reaches a specified temp.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts
If I were you I would check to make sure the valve for the coolant flow is opening all the way in the cab roof. I found my valve was only opening about 60 percent when I got it based upon how the cable was adjusted for the roof temp control for the heater. Once I adjusted the cable to open the valve 100%, I haven't been able to run my heater on high ever since.

In fact, I run the valve about 1/2 into the red and its produces 72 degrees in the cab in most of our weather. Now, we don't get the extreme cold often, like you do, because of the massive amount of lake water just west of my location. It keeps the winter temps warmer and the summer temps cooler, which is part of what I really like about this area. The typical outside temps when I am plowing are in the upper teens to the low to mid 20's.

I find I only need to block the radiator in EXTREME conditions, well, extreme for our area. If its 0 degrees or above, I can't even run my heater on high and I don't wear a coat in the cab, just a long sleeved wicking shirt with another wicking long sleeve shirt over it. The coat hangs in the corner of the cab till I get out......

I will and have blocked the radiator in extreme cold and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. Switching to the higher thermostat would increase the heat slightly, but lets face it, if 160 degrees isn't producing enough heat in the cab, 180 degrees isn't going to boil you out of the cab.

I actually measured the coolant temps in the radiator last winter using the laser temp gun when we had the -30 degree air temps here and the 25 to 35 MPH winds, which made the windchill below -55. The coolant temp dropped like a rock once it hit the top of the radiator because of the extremely cold air being pulled through the radiator. When I saw that happening, I was more concerned about the effect on the engine of the dramatically colder water coming back through it, verses too much heat being in the engine should I block off the air flow to the radiator.

How you block off the airflow is critical, in my opinion. I don't block the radiator's air source from the outside air, but you could. I used Mountain Dew case cardboard and wrapped the radiator screen, front and back, so that I was preventing the fan from pulling the cold air through the radiator.

This doesn't block the radiator from cooling as it might if you put the cardboard against the front of the radiator itself, which I would refrain from doing. I prefer this approach as the radiator isn't impaired at all in its cooling. The thickness of the Mountain Dew case cardboard allowed me to wrap the screen and still have it fit in the slots in the radiator. Just don't wrap the outer edges of the screen on both the front and back and it will slide right back into place and be nice and snug.

This approach allows the radiator to still cool, which is important. I did the same thing with my 455 without the cab, just to keep the engine temp warmer and it worked well. On that tractor, since it draws all of the air through the dash right in front of the operator, I also blocked the side panels by inserting cut out cardboard inside the side panel vents, where the air is drawn in. Just make sure to remove this when the season is over or you will cause the temps to be too high and overheat the engine.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I wonder if running it closer to PTO engine speed would be enough. I have to use high rpm with my 2305 for the snow blower and no heat issues with the tektite cab and heater.

I tried running it at high rpm and it made little difference. The cooling system must be designed for summer heat and chaff clogged screens
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
I also went with a 180 degree thermostat, made a big difference, I have a cozy cab on my 1025r and the small heater works very well, would be better if it did pull outside air as in the factory cabs, but it does a good job, but my tractors are in a heated shop, so they start out warm when I go out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
In fact, I run the valve about 1/2 into the red and its produces 72 degrees in the cab in most of our weather.
That's what I have found too. Now I'm only one winter with this cab, but found it plenty warm in the cab.

Also thinking what if the coolant isn't getting up to the heater, like it is air locked.

My Johnny is up in Northern Wisconsin at the cabin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Martincom... can you elaborate on your comment"I only owned a Mauser cab briefly--till I found it wouldn't clear the supplemental backhoe frame mounts."

I have been trying to find out what is not compatible about the mouser cab and a backhoe for the past year. I have emailed JD, I have talked to the dealer, but cannot get an answer.

There is a video on youtube of a fella that has a 1025r, I think a 2018, that he states that they told him it wasn't compatible,"but there it is" he said. The only thing I can see in the vid is that the seat isn't mounted. It was the 260b hoe with the dedicated seat. I sent him a message but never got a reply. I wish I could link the video, but I don't know how.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you want to message me that would be fine.... Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I havent seen anyone mention it yet but, why not install an engine block heater as well so that the engine is warm right from the get-go? Diesels do take awhile to warm up so Im just thinking on it being warm before you even start it up. :hide:

I have an engine block heater but don’t use it because my tractor lives in a attached garage that I keep about 55F

Do you think plugging it in would make more difference than a heated garage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
:lol:Top | #6
SulleyBear SulleyBear is offline


SulleyBear's Avatar Join Date
Oct 2014
Last Online
Today @ 09:00 AM
Location
Beautiful beaches, moderated summer heat and lake effect snows. Right where I want to be.
Posts
6,866
Thanks
1,391
Thanked 2,452 Times in 1,374 Posts
If I were you I would check to make sure the valve for the coolant flow is opening all the way in the cab roof. I found my valve was only opening about 60 percent when I got it based upon how the cable was adjusted for the roof temp control for the heater. Once I adjusted the cable to open the valve 100%, I haven't been able to run my heater on high ever since.


Ill check that before winter but my real issue is normally when it is below 0 degrees F. Really just being enclosed and out of the wind and blowing snow makes a huge difference. The only reason I want to be able to plow in a T shirt is so I can wave at my neighbor who insists he doesn’t want help. He’ll be covered head to foot in blowing snow.:lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Martincom... can you elaborate on your comment"I only owned a Mauser cab briefly--till I found it wouldn't clear the supplemental backhoe frame mounts."

I have been trying to find out what is not compatible about the mouser cab and a backhoe for the past year. I have emailed JD, I have talked to the dealer, but cannot get an answer.

There is a video on youtube of a fella that has a 1025r, I think a 2018, that he states that they told him it wasn't compatible,"but there it is" he said. The only thing I can see in the vid is that the seat isn't mounted. It was the 260b hoe with the dedicated seat. I sent him a message but never got a reply. I wish I could link the video, but I don't know how.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you want to message me that would be fine.... Thanks
Don’t worry about hi jacking my thread, not a problem. Martincom has been very generous with his knowledge and I’m sure he’ll pass information to you as time permits.

You might also want to start a new thread asking your question. You never know when someone will have your answers. I speak from experience because I was having a problem with blown fuses in my Mauser cab. Dealer was at a loss for a solution but Jdforever had the same exact problem and talked me through the fix. I’m forever grateful! Turns out both our cabs were wired wrong at the factory in Austria!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
Martincom... can you elaborate on your comment"I only owned a Mauser cab briefly--till I found it wouldn't clear the supplemental backhoe frame mounts."

I have been trying to find out what is not compatible about the mouser cab and a backhoe for the past year. I have emailed JD, I have talked to the dealer, but cannot get an answer.

There is a video on youtube of a fella that has a 1025r, I think a 2018, that he states that they told him it wasn't compatible,"but there it is" he said. The only thing I can see in the vid is that the seat isn't mounted. It was the 260b hoe with the dedicated seat. I sent him a message but never got a reply. I wish I could link the video, but I don't know how.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you want to message me that would be fine.... Thanks
I believe you're on the right track. With the 260 Backhoe, there is a supplemental frame that parallels the main frame rails and is attached to the FEL mounts via clamps. The Mauser front mounts and the supplemental frame clamps interfere with each other by wanting to occupy the same space. See the attached installation manual for details on the supplemental frame and illustrations.

The 260B Backhoe does not utilize this supplemental frame. I don't know if there is added on plates sandwiched to the rear frame rails, if they beefed up the frame on the 2018s and newer, or if they decided it wasn't necessary. I'm speculating the latter as I have come across a post where a fellow installed a 260B on a 2017.

If you have a 260B backhoe, I'm confident you can install the Mauser. Bear in mind you have to remove the ROPS for the cab install and re-install it when you remove the cab. Here are some links to my aborted Mauser install, which has the installation manual attached, and Cozy installs. My previous post, in this thread, has links that includes source a link for heater hose quick couplers.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts
I havent seen anyone mention it yet but, why not install an engine block heater as well so that the engine is warm right from the get-go? Diesels do take awhile to warm up so Im just thinking on it being warm before you even start it up. :hide:
You have to be very careful with engine block heaters as they draw mice to build nests like a free government cheese give away draws.......those seeking free cheese (ties in nicely with the mice:laugh:...). But seriously, the block heaters do attract mice and I have had them build large nests on top of the engine in less than 24 hours.

I used to keep my snow plow tractor (the 455) in my unheated building with the block heater plugged in. Sure, it helps warm the block and it makes the engine start easier, but I would have to take my leaf blower and open the hood and blow the grass and debris they would drag up there from one day to the next.

One time, when I started the tractor, a mouse jumps down from the engine and it was in the middle of delivering more rodents and had one hanging out when it jumped. The nest had other little pink tiny meese, but I tossed the whole family out in the snow. Just what I don't want or need, unwanted mice who don't pay rent............and cause trouble.

I once had a smoldering nest on top of the engine ..........With a plastic hood and side panels, a fire would consume the front of the tractor in a flash, not to mention that there is also fuel stored in the same unheated outbuilding. The mice build on top of the block and the exhaust manifold right where the heat is located from the coolant chambers in the block. It wouldn't take long for the grass and other combustibles they love to use to spark and burn.

They will build a compact nest the size of a baseball or softball and they pack it in the areas of the engine where the block is warmest. So, if anyone is using a block heater, be aware of this, especially if the building where you are storing the tractor is attached to your house, etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a indoor / outdoor thermostat and extra sensor on my tractor since I first got it. The outside temp sensor is mounted on the underside of the I Match hitch,close behind the cab and out of the wind and moisture elements. Here is a photo of the thermometer in my cab showing the typical temps.

That's 70.5 degrees right where the thermometer is located, so its likely a little warmer higher in the cab. Plus, the temp unit is right next to the glass door, which might be slightly impacting the temp it is showing. If I ran the heater valve wide open, the heat would drive me out of the cab. The other thing impressive about the cab heating system is it recovers very quickly when the door is opened when getting in and out. Plus, it keeps the glass very clear when circulating the fresh air from outside the cab.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,318 Posts
I had an 09 Jetta TDI and in -20F days it wouldn't blow hot air at all out of the vents. So, it isn't just a tractor thing and I wouldn't exactly say the car\truck industry has this fixed. My Subaru doesn't do much better and that is a gas.

The good thing is we normally don't get snow when it is that cold. I am kind of shocked you say you are out there when it is -20F. I guess I have had to from time to time but it is pretty rare. Normally if it snows and then quickly drops in temp before I can get out there. Maybe you are dealing with lake effect snow. :dunno:

I would start by checking the valves to make sure it is opening first. That is the least invasive fix. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with blocking off part of the radiator. As others mentioned though, you need to watch that temp gauge. You don't want to overheat because that is where the problems come from. I am sure JD doesn't recommend it because people could forget about it and come summer wreck something. Then they will get sued or get suck with the repair bill because they said you should block off the radiator. By saying not to do it, if you forget about it and wreck something it is on you. Just be smart about it and you will be fine.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top