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1026R intermittent shut off

12K views 47 replies 15 participants last post by  HouseMouse 
#1 ·
I seem to have a gremlin in my electrical system of my 2012 - 1026R
If I run it over an hour it will suddenly just shut off, much as if I just jumped off the seat!
The warmer it gets (NOT OVERHEATING by any means!!) the worse it becomes & shuts off.
Did it twice today while raking the trails with a 48" rake, not really hard work, both within
10 minutes, once while raising bucket & last was just driving to go drop rake off.

Usually it starts right back up with a restart, display says "shft to neut"

Had this issue since 24 hours (bought used, now out of warranty) has 72 hours on it.

I have removed both the key & the PTO/RIO switch, cleaned the contacts & applied dielectric grease.
Checked the seat switch connector, & changed the fuel solenoid relay.

When it first happened, it would stay dead like the key was shut off.
Now it just QUITS, but the panel stays active and tells me to "shft to neut"
Runs great otherwise, no smoke, fresh fuel, new filters & I use a diesel additive.

Did NOT do it last winter when I was bucketing snow for 2 hours.

My local dealer service tech is very helpful but also stumped.
Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions?
Thank you all!!
 
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#4 ·
I tried the butt wiggle to see if that was it, didn't seem to have any effect.
Maybe I am doing it wrong??

I also moved the wires going to the fuel solenoid that were close to rubbing on the corner of the engine block.
 
#3 ·
Do you have any electrical modifications to your safety circuits like RIO bypass or seat switch bypassed? If so, check those out and verify they aren't the issue.

Does it happen when you hit the reverse pedal. Was the PTO on?
 
#5 ·
No safety switch modifications



Have not modified the PTO/RIO switch as only the snow blower is PTO driven, no mower, etc.
Seat switch has not been modified & won't be as I have grand kids.

Never had it happen in reverse.

I do greatly appreciate the help & ideas!!
Thank you!
 
#6 · (Edited)
With the tractor running.... Try jiggling the ignition switch?:unknown:

Then I would defiantly look at the Seat Kill Switch.

Lastly for this morning.... I would replace the fuel filter under the left-side floor board.
 
#8 ·
Key switch, seat switch, fuel filter



I have tried wiggling the key switch, as well as the PTO/RIO switch , can't get it to stop when I do that, maybe something bad inside switch(s) ?? Same for seat switch.

As far as the filter, doesn't slow down or sputter & starts right back up in a second.
Filter is new as well as fuel, checked both filters.

Wondering if something is heating up more the longer it's used & opening up??

Thank you for your reply & help!!
 
#7 ·
The last owner to report this had a short in the wiring for the fuel solenoid right up against the engine block. You said you already checked that, but I would look at it pretty hard.
 
#9 ·
Wire short on block



I moved these away last year & zip tied them away from the block. Auto part Fuel line Wire Engine Automotive fuel system

Still look fine, not against block.

Any chance the solenoid gets hot & drops out??
I replaced the solenoid relay this summer along with the filters.

I can run it ALL day dragging logs & limbs out of the woods & bucketing logs to the wood splitter, but then I am shutting it off after 30 minutes of run time. It's only when I run for and hour or more straight, why I am thinking something is heating up & moving causing a circuit break momentarily?

Thank you for your help & replies!!
 
#11 ·
I'll ask the obvious:

Are you moving forward on the seat?
Are you bouncing on the seat?
Is your body weight low, like well under 200 lbs?

In other words is your body weight or movement on the seat allowing the seat safety switch to open?
 
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#13 ·
I'm guessing not the seat?



I'm 6 feet & lean back into the seat, just the right fit so I'm not forward on seat,
definitely not bouncing!! LOL
I weigh 260, even without a switch, that should crush the wires together!!

Thanks!
 
#14 ·
I'm 6 feet & lean back into the seat, just the right fit so I'm not forward on seat,
definitely not bouncing!! LOL
I weigh 260, even without a switch, that should crush the wires together!!

Thanks!
I have two thoughts....

1. Try jumping your seat switch. If the problem disappears, then you know what to do.

2. Can you see what the ICC says at the moment of shutdown? I wonder if it is the ICC shutting down the engine or something after that dropping the fuel solenoid.
 
#17 ·
Service Tech may be on to something...

I emailed & talked to my sales & service guys at Frontier yesterday, the more they asked questions the more I could recall in detail. I remember & now kick myself for not posting this earlier!!

I can run it all day on & off when I pull logs or tree limbs from the woods, or when I bucket the cut logs to the splitter. However then for safety sake, I shut the tractor OFF while cutting, trimming or splitting.

It's only when I'm in the seat for a longer period, like when bucketing several loads of gravel for the driveway or trail raking or grooming. Also those take place in warm weather. I have run the bucket during the COLD for hours with no issues.

My tech is thinking it's the fuel solenoid getting HOT & dropping out.
Dieselshadow was very close to that as well with the panel saying "shift to neut"

I thought it just meant "shift to neut" so I can restart & not realize it's an error code!

I will get a new one & put it on and hopefully have a "happy ending" to this chapter!:thumbup1gif:
Many THANKS!!! to all for ideas & help!!!
 
#21 ·
My tech is thinking it's the fuel solenoid getting HOT & dropping out.
Dieselshadow was very close to that as well with the panel saying "shift to neut"

Why not take a hair dryer and warm up the solenoid and see if you can reproduce the issue before spending money on the parts?
 
#18 ·
Have you checked you fuel tank cap? Double check the breather hole is not partially blocked which can slowly build a vacuum in your tank. Happened to me on another JD product and it stumped everyone until I just happened to look at it and noticed it was partially blocked with dirt. Cleaned it and the problem was gone. Good luck.
 
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#19 ·
This also happened to me on a JD L120 lawn tractor. It would run fine until you put a load on it. Classic case of fuel starvation. New fuel cap fixed that problem, but it is one that I will always remember to check first if I have another similar problem.

Dave
 
#23 ·
All to often I see parts changers masquerading around shops as techs. It doesn't take much skill to keep changing parts until the broken part is found but it takes skill and thought to find the broken part and fix it first.

Case in point. My friend kept going through front breaks on his Nissan Xtera. I told him I would do it for him for the price of the parts. I noticed when I took the caliper off of the pads that the inner pad was warn twice as bad as the outer. If I was parts changer would have just replaced the pads and put on new rotors and called it done. I wanted to know why, so I investigated. Found out that someone had used anti-seize to lubricate the caliper pins. This caused a two fold problem. One it cooks off under the heat created by breaking and has little lubricating properties. Also it caused the rubber dampener that goes on the end of the pins to swell and would not allow the pin to move. I used actual caliper lube and he should now get many thousands of miles out of his pads and rotors.
 
#30 ·
What I don't like about that whole bad solenoid theory is why it would start right back up and be fine again. If the solenoid were bad, you'd think a 5-10 second cooling period wouldn't be enough to get it working again. The start cool could pull it back in, but you'd think the hold coil would fault out again real quick or not work at all. The start coil would add its own heat load as well.

I don't think it's your solenoid going bad based on the information at hand. I'm still leaning towards a safety switch or ICC going intermittent.
 
#31 ·
Solenoid vs ICC vs switch



I see exactly where your thinking about this, It would be nice if I had a black & white clear cut simple answer which I hope I can provide some day soon!!

I'm still leaning & hoping it's the coil for the following reasons....
1 - I can't replicate the problem myself, with a safety switch & my electronics knowledge, I should.
2 - It never happens when it's cool or cold, meaning during winter or with on & off usage all day pulling firewood, etc. There the tractor only runs 20 - 30 minutes & is then shut down while I chain saw or split wood.
3 - If it were an ICC "computer chip" or safety switch, why never in the first 20 - 30 minutes?

The theory of a the coil getting hot & dropping momentarily seems to fit the best, along with the display reading "shft to neut" which my tech is telling me the coil is not activated even though the key is in the "ON" position. Also remembering last summer as I was moving 3 truck loads of pit run for my driveway, the problem got worse & shut downs more frequent the more I used it, til the point I just had to quit for a few hours.

I remember electrical / pneumatic solenoids got weird at work as they started to fail, some were fairly new with few cycles on them.

I MAY BE TOTALLY WRONG!! :banghead:
I'm now on a quest to solve this problem no matter what!!!!
I will keep you posted as I find out more.

As always I am very grateful to you all for the ideas & help.
Duke
 
#32 ·
Years ago I had a similar problem on a Ford Tempo, it would just die on the road. Let it cool for a few minutes and it would start up. I found it was within the distributor there was a coil that the rotating magnet passed by to excite and create the current that triggered the ignition cycle. Not quite the same as the fuel solenoid, but what I found in that case is the tiny wire in the winding of that coil, (I forget the name of the part but I think it was the ignition pick up or something), that wire was broken but because it was wound so tightly in the coil it would maintain contact until it got hot at which time it moved just enough to break the circuit, when it cooled it moved back into contact. I had to trouble shoot it in a failed state so I headed out on the highway with my tools and manual and the test procedures until she died, and bingo, found the problem. So that said, the solenoid is a possibility.
 
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#34 ·
Similar problem....



I have a friend who is in maintenance & repair in the appliance field, he said pretty much the same thing when it comes to various solenoids like a dryer gas valve solenoid, etc. I'm crossing fingers this is it & we can put this chapter behind us! If they just fail, it's an easy find & fix, it's the intermittent ones that are a pain!!

Many thanks!!
 
#33 ·
Duke,

After Diesel's reply yesterday and your response from last night. I'm wondering if we have over looked the simple answer. Have you tested the battery? Though batteries don't like quick temp changes they do generally perform better when cool. I wondering if you are getting a voltage drop and the ICC is dropping the solenoid. You may want to take your battery to an auto parts store and have it load tested. The tests are usually free so the only cost you would out gas and your time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
Battery



The battery passed the test, good idea though!!
I also cleaned & checked all terminals, all good clean & tight.

I pick up the replacement solenoid later today & hope to test the tractor tomorrow.

Many thanks!!
 
#36 ·
Difference of manufactures ??

Just got back from my Deere place,
got the replacement solenoid $195.92 total.
OUCH :cry:
I sure hope this is the final chapter, I will know tomorrow when I put it in.

Wondering what difference if any, there is between manufactures.
I looked online & found a Larry B solenoid for $65.oo a Holdwell for $39.99 etc.
I realize some are cheap aftermarket knockoffs that are half the quality of the original OEM part.
Trouble there is knowing which ones.

I opted for the JD one made by Woodward so if nothing else, I eliminate it as the cause of the
gremlin shutdowns. I have used Woodward in the past in other applications so I'm more comfortable
with that part of the equation.
 
#38 ·
Maybe, maybe not: Replace the fuel pump?



Had troubles like this on my 1026R when I first got it. Would just stop, for now apparent reason. And, would start right up again… run awhile, and, again, just stop. Turned out had a bad fuel pump. Probably not what is causing your problem… but, then, again, maybe??!!
 
#39 ·
Had troubles like this on my 1026R when I first got it. Would just stop, for now apparent reason. And, would start right up again… run awhile, and, again, just stop. Turned out had a bad fuel pump. Probably not what is causing your problem… but, then, again, maybe??!!
Although it's frowned upon on this thread... It just may turn into a merry go round of replacing parts. One part at a time. :usa
 
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#42 ·
Changing parts out...

I could not agree more, it gets very expensive to just start changing out parts!
However in this case, all the testing, e-mails, talking with my service tech, & YOU GUYS,
I'm really at the end of the proverbial rope here.
I will admit I haven't tried VOODOO yet, I'm saving that for Halloween night if this
new solenoid doesn't work.

I will know by dinner time tonight :flag_of_truce:
 
#44 ·
Agree working on a intermittent trouble can and is a very difficult and sometimes long drawn out repair and at times expensive. Well always expensive if you count your time ,if you are doing the repairs and plus the parts. I've changed my share of parts on different equipment thinking at times this has to be the cause . Other times would be told by our testers change a digital card or circuit board and you just knew they had no clue what was causing the trouble , but had to start with something to see if or what changed by changing out a part.
In your case hope this clears the trouble and you can start enjoying your tractor again.
 
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#46 ·
It's the solenoid!!!

FOLKS..... WE HAVE A WINNER.....
It was the solenoid.

Swapped it out this morning, two bolts & a plug in, about 5 minutes as I cleaned all the surfaces before the new one went in & added dielectric grease to the plug.

I did notice a few drops of oil on the piston, not sure if that is normal?
There is an O-ring type seal between it and where it bolts to. Does NOT come with a new one!
Old one was in good condition so I cleaned & reused.

Then tested for 3 hours under different loads, trails, bucketing the rest of the firewood to the splitter, I left it run the whole 3+ hours under different speeds, everything I could think of!! I even hooked up the snow blower and raised & lowered it a few times as I need to test fit the PTO shaft.

NOT A SPUTTER!!! Worked like a Deere should work :greentractorride: Auto part Bicycle part Bicycle fork Brake Wire
Engine Auto part Fuel line Vehicle Car


Many THANKS to ALL of you for helping & suggesting ideas!!
Duke
 
#47 ·
Hoo raaaaayyyyy! I hate that kind of troubleshooting also...

I shudder to think of JD life without this forum and all the "askin'" and "knowing" that goes around here for all of us to benefit from!!! :usa:good2::greentractorride:
 
#48 · (Edited)
Awsome!, Awsome!, Awsome! Somehow, I knew this was going to be a hunt and peck till the what the heck and replace parts issue. :good2:
 
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