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Discussion Starter #1
I have had my 1026R since new and it always started within a couple of rolls of the crankshaft until recently. I just rolled over the 200 hour mark and just replaced the battery. The fuel filters were replaced at the 169-170 hour mark. I have just recently noticed that I now have to crank the engine over for 10-15 seconds before it starts and it smokes some where it never did in the past. If I run it for a while and then shut it off and restart there is no problem. Let it set for an hour or so and the slow start is back. Any suggestions on what might be causing this issue? I am thinking the injection pump is somehow losing its fuel and has to crank for a while before the fuel is there to be injected but why now? Thanks, Ed
 

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I assume you are allowing the glow plugs to cycle, correct???

It sounds like the glow plugs are not working, or you are not allowing them to cycle, since not getting fuel will not cause it to smoke when it finally does start.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I am following the Glow Plug Cycle, I have owned this tractor since March 2013 and it was new with less than an hour on the clock. I have not had this issue until recently so something has changed. During the summer even if I didn't follow the glow plug cycle it always fired in a couple of cranks, just smoked, now I have to crank it for 10-15 seconds before it fires. I am worried more about this winter when the snow is flying and it is below zero here in Michigan and it not starting when I need to blow snow.
 

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This sounds fuel related to me, like you have an air leak. Have you let the fuel pump prime for a few prior to attempting to start? Try this the next time it *should* be slow starting again and see if that makes a difference. If it does, change the filters again and pay attention to seals and hose ends looking for leaks.

Note, you can have an air leak but not have fuel leak. I know that sounds strange, but it happens all the time with diesels.

Make sure your electric pump is even working. You can pull the line off the filter and turn the key on. Observe the flow. It should be pretty good, not a trickle.
 

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I also think you're losing your fuel prime, check all over for any loose fittings or signs of fuel seepage.
 

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Do you use any diesel fuel additives? Have you recently changed sources for your fuel? Just brainstorming.
 

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I don't think this new starting problem and the very recent tractor service are a coincidence. The advice given is spot on. I would be looking for an air leak or perhaps the fuel pump has stopped working. Fuel pumps tend to either work or not work but an air leak in the system adds complicating consequences.

One of the things I have noticed is when the fuel pump isn't working the tractor starts hard, will lose power going up hills and it will run just fine headed down hill or on level ground, once you get it running. But it did run with the pump not functioning.

Any chance you put the small fuel filter in backwards or that you have the fuel filter in the separator not installed fully in the up position, affecting the fuel flow after the engine has been sitting?

What about a fuel line being pinched as a result of the service? The little under the floor board filter is a challenge to change and it helps to loosen the clamp on the fuel line. Maybe the clamp got turned and is partially pinching the line or maybe even this area is a source of your air leak......

Does the glow plug dash light seem to be staying on as before and going off after the normal amount of time?

Cranking for 10 to 15 seconds is quite a bit of time, really. Be careful about keeping the starter engaged too long when you are having trouble with the starting.

I am sure you will, but please make sure to let us know what you find is the culprit so others can learn from your experience. Hope you find the resolution an easy one. You are going to need it for snow duties pretty soon.......:hide:
 

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Sundancer, do you hear the electric fuel pump run when you turn the key to “on”?

It’s been observed before where the wire has been pulled out of the pump, or I believe they can just go bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't think this new starting problem and the very recent tractor service are a coincidence. The advice given is spot on. I would be looking for an air leak or perhaps the fuel pump has stopped working. Fuel pumps tend to either work or not work but an air leak in the system adds complicating consequences. I checked the Fuel Pump yesterday, I placed my hand on it and turned the Key on and felt it running. If this continues, I will do a flow test when I remove the FEL and install the Snow Blower.

One of the things I have noticed is when the fuel pump isn't working the tractor starts hard, will lose power going up hills and it will run just fine headed down hill or on level ground, once you get it running. But it did run with the pump not functioning. When running, I have no power issues.

Any chance you put the small fuel filter in backwards or that you have the fuel filter in the separator not installed fully in the up position, affecting the fuel flow after the engine has been sitting? No, I have been a mechanic since the mid 60s and I am very careful on that aspect.

What about a fuel line being pinched as a result of the service? The little under the floor board filter is a challenge to change and it helps to loosen the clamp on the fuel line. Maybe the clamp got turned and is partially pinching the line or maybe even this area is a source of your air leak...... An air leak might be a possibility and I will have to check it during the change over.

Does the glow plug dash light seem to be staying on as before and going off after the normal amount of time? Glow plug light has not changed and acts normal.

Cranking for 10 to 15 seconds is quite a bit of time, really. Be careful about keeping the starter engaged too long when you are having trouble with the starting. I am very careful about overheating the starter, I did that once when I was a kid and it was a very miserable experiance changing out laying on the ground with minimal access.

I am sure you will, but please make sure to let us know what you find is the culprit so others can learn from your experience. Hope you find the resolution an easy one. You are going to need it for snow duties pretty soon.......:hide:

See the above in red.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sundancer, do you hear the electric fuel pump run when you turn the key to “on”?

It’s been observed before where the wire has been pulled out of the pump, or I believe they can just go bad.
I placed my hand on the pump and turned the key on and felt the pump running yesterday. I then started the tractor after a minute or so and it started right up as in the olden days. I just might have to wait a lot longer to start, though I still don't know what might have changed. This issue did not start immediately after the filter change out but several months later. The filters were changed last fall and I went through the winter with no issues until late this summer when it started acting up.
 

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I placed my hand on the pump and turned the key on and felt the pump running yesterday. I then started the tractor after a minute or so and it started right up as in the olden days. I just might have to wait a lot longer to start, though I still don't know what might have changed. This issue did not start immediately after the filter change out but several months later. The filters were changed last fall and I went through the winter with no issues until late this summer when it started acting up.
I think based on your answer above that you have confirmed what others suggested, you likely have an air leak.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Do you use any diesel fuel additives? Have you recently changed sources for your fuel? Just brainstorming.
No change, I normally buy my fuel in 30 gallon barrels and add the fuel treatment as I fill the barrels. I normally fill two barrels and that lasts a year or so. I am due to get more fuel before winter sets in and I have to remove the FEL. I like to wait until I am sure they are selling the winter blend. I am looking at trying the Howes this time, just don't know which to use. I do use on road diesel as I get a $.50 cent off coupon from the local grocery store when you buy so many dollars worth of food. Beats the off road fuel price and I don't have to drive as far to fill up my barrels. I also can use the fuel in an emergency in the Motor Home (Cummins BT5.9 12 valve) and the Duramax (LB-7) if I have to.
 

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Maybe the glow plugs aren’t really working?? I don’t know how much difference they make in the warm temps we have now. When it gets cold it probably won’t start at all with out them. :dunno:
 

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No change, I normally buy my fuel in 30 gallon barrels and add the fuel treatment as I fill the barrels. I normally fill two barrels and that lasts a year or so. I am due to get more fuel before winter sets in and I have to remove the FEL. I like to wait until I am sure they are selling the winter blend. I am looking at trying the Howes this time, just don't know which to use. I do use on road diesel as I get a $.50 cent off coupon from the local grocery store when you buy so many dollars worth of food. Beats the off road fuel price and I don't have to drive as far to fill up my barrels. I also can use the fuel in an emergency in the Motor Home (Cummins BT5.9 12 valve) and the Duramax (LB-7) if I have to.
I use Howe's year around and have for a long time, probably 20 years plus. The blend rate is indicated on the bottle and in the winter, I use the double measure, which they indicate is a viable option. Howe's is a De-Emulsifier so it's not at all harmful to use extra product blended in the fuel. In fact, it won't hurt a thing and will just lower the filter freeze point even more and treat the fuel.

This is the Howe's product I use year around. It is an anti gel and it also increases the fuels lubricity and lowers its freeze point. If you want to start with one product, this is the one I would and have used.

I add this Meaner Kleaner Howe's Product in the winter months to the other Howe's product. It cuts down on the smoke on my bucket and plow blade dramatically from when I just ran the base Howe's product without the meaner kleener.

Make sure to keep the Howe's and other diesel additives at a temp above freezing and always add it to the fuel when the fuel is also above freezing. Products which protect against filter freezing and fuel gelling actually will freeze themselves at temps slightly above freezing. The lower the product when applied protects fuel against gelling, etc. the higher the temp at which the product itself not blended with diesel fuel will actually freeze......:dunno: If you read the products detailed instructions on the websites, they mention the importance of keeping the fuel additives above freezing temps and also how they will freeze themselves when they aren't blended with fuel. If you add fuel treatments when the treatment has been stored in freezing temps, it doesn't circulate in the fuel and properly blend.


 

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Discussion Starter #15
I use Howe's year around and have for a long time, probably 20 years plus. The blend rate is indicated on the bottle and in the winter, I use the double measure, which they indicate is a viable option. Howe's is a De-Emulsifier so it's not at all harmful to use extra product blended in the fuel. In fact, it won't hurt a thing and will just lower the filter freeze point even more and treat the fuel.

This is the Howe's product I use year around. It is an anti gel and it also increases the fuels lubricity and lowers its freeze point. If you want to start with one product, this is the one I would and have used.

I add this Meaner Kleaner Howe's Product in the winter months to the other Howe's product. It cuts down on the smoke on my bucket and plow blade dramatically from when I just ran the base Howe's product without the meaner kleener.

Make sure to keep the Howe's and other diesel additives at a temp above freezing and always add it to the fuel when the fuel is also above freezing. Products which protect against filter freezing and fuel gelling actually will freeze themselves at temps slightly above freezing. The lower the product when applied protects fuel against gelling, etc. the higher the temp at which the product itself not blended with diesel fuel will actually freeze......:dunno: If you read the products detailed instructions on the websites, they mention the importance of keeping the fuel additives above freezing temps and also how they will freeze themselves when they aren't blended with fuel. If you add fuel treatments when the treatment has been stored in freezing temps, it doesn't circulate in the fuel and properly blend.


Those are the two products I was looking at and I sent an inquiry to Howes asking specifically about mixing them and also using them in my Motor Home and Diesel Pickup. Thanks.
 

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I have read all the posts and I do understand the thought that the system could be cavitating, BUT, the OP said when it does eventually start, IT SMOKES BIG TIME!!!

This is a text book definition of un-burned fuel, usually caused by a glow plug issue or on older engines that did not have glow plugs, this was a normal event.

If the transfer pump is not working or the system is cavitating, the engine will not smoke because it isn't getting fuel. The OP condition indicates the engine is getting fuel but it isn't igniting which again, seems to indicate a possible glow plug issue.

It is possible for the glow plug light to light in the dash panel, and the glow plugs, or some of the glow plugs, not working.

When the key is turned to on, the EEC supplies power through wire 385 (Terminal J3 -11) to the glow plug relay closing coil for 5 seconds. The relay closes which supplies power to the glow plugs through wire 383.

Now what could be wrong.
1. The EEC provides power to the glow plug relay through wire 385 when the key is turned on, the light on the panel indicates the ECC is supplying power to the glow plug relay but the relay does not close due to the relay being bad. The result will be, the glow plug light will lit but the glow plugs will not get power due to the bad relay.
2. The EEC provides power to the glow plug relay through wire 385 when the key is turns on, the light on the panel indicates the ECC is supplying power to the glow plug relay, the relay closes but the fusible link in wire 002A is blown so no power is feeding the high amperage side, terminal 30 of the relay, so therefore no power is fed to the glow plugs.
3. The EEC provides power to the glow plug relay through wire 385 when the key is turns on, the light on the panel indicates the ECC is supplying power to the glow plug relay, the relay closes and supplies power to each glow plug but there is one, two or three glow plugs bad.

Any one of the top three scenarios will cause the glow plugs to not work or not work properly.

So, pull relay K3 (see diagram below) and test, with a voltmeter, to see if there is power at terminal 30 with the key OFF. If no power, check the fusible link. If there is power at ter. 30, move to 2...
2. With your meter on volts, check power at terminal 86. Turn the key on, you should see 12 VDC at terminal 86 for 5 seconds. If not, you may have an EEC problem or a wiring problem from the ECC to the relay. If you have power at ter. 86 for 5 seconds when turning the key on, then go to 3.
3. With the meter on Ohms, check resistance from terminal 87 to ground. Resistance should be less than 1 ohm. If not, there is a problem with one or more glow plugs.
4. With the meter on Ohms, pull the wire off each glow plug and check the resistance of each glow plug. The resistance should be less then 1 ohm. If not, replace the glow plug.
5. Also, verify that the glow plug relay is actually working by plugging the relay in and verify power at the glow plugs.
 

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Smoke color will dictate whether or not the glow plugs are the issue.

Black smoke means the engine wasn't getting fuel and when it finally lit off the excess will be burnt. This is a typical starting scenario for older diesels. You see a puff of black smoke upon start. This is also indicative of the governor or operator advancing the throttle for more fuel during start up. On these little diesels if there was air in the system, no fuel, the governor was advancing and once bled of air, there's a (relatively) large amount of fuel being injected.

Whitish-blue smoke means un-burnt fuel. This will happen with the cranking of the engine immediately. Not enough heat to ignite the fuel being injected. Typical of a cold diesel engine. Again, relative.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, I took a video of the first start today and now I am confused on how to get it from my iPhone. When I click on the Icon for Videos, it asks for a URL and gives examples of Hulu & YouTube, I have never used these services to play video before so I am at a loss. I don't do Facebook which looks like another option.

Any suggestions or should I just forget the video and work on the suggestions in the next month or so when I do my winter change over?
 

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Well, I took a video of the first start today and now I am confused on how to get it from my iPhone. When I click on the Icon for Videos, it asks for a URL and gives examples of Hulu & YouTube, I have never used these services to play video before so I am at a loss. I don't do Facebook which looks like another option.

Any suggestions or should I just forget the video and work on the suggestions in the next month or so when I do my winter change over?
An easy way would be to create a youtube account and you can upload it directly from your phone, then post a link to the youtube video.
 
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