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Discussion Starter #1
Couple of things.

1) this site is great for finding out issues/problems/solutions

2) After Loading a trailer full of logs Sunday one of the "supervisors" that usually just watch and crack wise spotted a bolt laying upon the ground.
after further inspection it was a broken off bolt, about 1/2 dia.
After searching around we found the source, the loader mount, where it mounts to the tractor frame.
Not only was one broken off and gone so was 4 other ones. 4 on the right side and 1 on the left side.
Of the 18 bolts that hold the loader mount to the frame 5 were gone and all but 3 were loose.
YIKES!!!

3) So first thing I did was search this website (see #1) and find that these bolts loosen is a common issue, so much so that JD recommends tightening every 50 hours.
My Bad for not knowing this!!

4) I repaired/fixed this today. Its easy enough to remove the loader then the mounting brackets. They are heavy so I used a floor jack to support them as I removed the last bolt holding them to the frame.

I had to remove the broken off bolts, very easy, drill them out. PRO TIP, always use Left Hand drills to remove broken off bolts. 80% of the time the act of drilling them out will make the bolts spin out and no further work is required. BUY YOURSELF A SET OF LEFT HAND DRILLS. My Local Menards has them, less than $10 bucks for a set of 8 or more drills. For me 4 of the 5 bolts came right out during drilling, one I ended up drilling thru and then using a easy out.

I retapped all the holes, just cause, 12mm x 1.75 tap and the holes are ready for reassembly.

I had to get some new bolts. 12mm x 1.75 pitch x 35 (10 required) and 12mm x 1.75 pitch x 55 (8 required) 10.9 hardness spec which is equiv. to a grade 8 I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Well nobody had the correct lengths, they all had 40 and 60mm lengths.
So I bought the slightly longer, just 5 silly little millimeters longer, bolts. After trying reassembly it turns out that the slightly longer bolts wouldn't tighten up all the way.
So I broke out the hand grinder and hoogled the bolts down to the right length. Easy enough.
As I was I started assembling the mount back on it turns out that JD's bolts use a non-standard head size. 18mm hex instead of the standard 19mm for a 12mm x 1.75 pitch screw.
BAD on JD, why would they do such a stupid thing? Now I have to use 2 different wrenches when retorqueing bolts every 50 hours. Screw that (pun?), I ordered a whole new set of bolts from Mcmaster Carr.

Oh, and as always I stayed clear of buying parts from JD, I would hope my local JD dealer would have these guys in stock but I knew that JD would have a bend over and pick up the soap price on them.

JD Prices
55mm bolt $5.99 ea.
35mm bolt $3.29 ea.

McMaster Carrs price
55mm bolt $.94 ea.
35mm bolt $.84 ea.

SHAME ON JD for ridiculous prices!!!
 

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You were lucky only broken bolts and not castings.
I am not sure the JD P/Ns you priced for bolts.
My local dealer for 19M7403 (35mm) is $1.67, 19M7362 955mm) is $2.58 about 1/2 what your dealer charges.

I like McMaster for hard to find items, but they only ship UPS and a small package costs $15 :nunu:

Wheels, ROPS, and Loader mounts are the three things to constantly check until they (the fasteners), take a set.

Some people mark the bolt/nut head and adjacent surface with a paint marker for a visual that the fastener has not loosened.
 

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Oh, and as always I stayed clear of buying parts from JD, I would hope my local JD dealer would have these guys in stock but I knew that JD would have a bend over and pick up the soap price on them.

JD Prices
55mm bolt $5.99 ea.
35mm bolt $3.29 ea.

McMaster Carrs price
55mm bolt $.94 ea.
35mm bolt $.84 ea.

SHAME ON JD for ridiculous prices!!!
Wow... who is your local dealer? I would say shame on your dealer. :) Those prices are quite higher than what JD Parts shows as the LIST price for those bolts. The McMaster Carr price is a bargain for a Grade 10.9 bolt. The JD Parts list price and P/N is shown below.

55mm bolt:
Part Number:
19M7362
Part Price:2.42 USD Each
Description:Cap Screw - SCREW, HEX HEAD, METRIC

35mm bolt:
Part Number:
19M7403
Part Price:1.52 USD Each
Description:Cap Screw - SCREW, HEX HEAD, METRIC
 
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You were lucky only broken bolts and not castings.
I am not sure the JD P/Ns you priced for bolts.
My local dealer for 19M7403 (35mm) is $1.67, 19M7362 955mm) is $2.58 about 1/2 what your dealer charges.
heh heh You beat me to it. Funny, my local dealer prices vary by a few cents.
I like McMaster for hard to find items, but they only ship UPS and a small package costs $15 :nunu:
Same here. I love MMC but dislike places that have those huge minimum shipping costs. In their defense, they will in many cases actually charge less than what is indicated on their website. I recently ordered a roll of Crocus Cloth and I believe the website showed like $14 shipping. When the item shipped they only charged me $7.36. So I applaud them for taking steps to not screw you over.

Some people mark the bolt/nut head and adjacent surface with a paint marker for a visual that the fastener has not loosened.
This doesn't always work on bolts like those used for the loader. In some cases, the bolt doesn't actually loosen from turning but instead the metal under it can compress over time. So while the position of the bolt head remains unchanged, the junction does in fact loosen.
 
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heh heh You beat me to it. Funny, my local dealer prices vary by a few cents.


Same here. I love MMC but dislike places that have those huge minimum shipping costs. In their defense, they will in many cases actually charge less than what is indicated on their website. I recently ordered a roll of Crocus Cloth and I believe the website showed like $14 shipping. When the item shipped they only charged me $7.36. So I applaud them for taking steps to not screw you over.



This doesn't always work on bolts like those used for the loader. In some cases, the bolt doesn't actually loosen from turning but instead the metal under it can compress over time. So while the position of the bolt head remains unchanged, the junction does in fact loosen.
Good point!~ I think paint will compress,or even "flow" resulting a loose fastener. That's another reason takes several tightenings, before they stay tight.
 
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and find that these bolts loosen is a common issue, so much so that JD recommends tightening every 50 hours.
Having to retorque bolts and nuts on something like a tractor or implement is not an "issue". It is common practice as new equipment starts to wear in. Just like when you change your vehicle wheels - supposed to be retorqued in 50 miles.

So that begs the question - did you do as the manual says and retorque yours at 50 hours? How about your wheels?
 

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Having to retorque bolts and nuts on something like a tractor or implement is not an "issue". It is common practice as new equipment starts to wear in. Just like when you change your vehicle wheels - supposed to be retorqued in 50 miles.

So that begs the question - did you do as the manual says and retorque yours at 50 hours? How about your wheels?
I think the comment below from the OP means it was a "NO".

"3) So first thing I did was search this website (see #1) and find that these bolts loosen is a common issue, so much so that JD recommends tightening every 50 hours.
My Bad for not knowing this!!"

 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Having to retorque bolts and nuts on something like a tractor or implement is not an "issue". It is common practice as new equipment starts to wear in. Just like when you change your vehicle wheels - supposed to be retorqued in 50 miles.

So that begs the question - did you do as the manual says and retorque yours at 50 hours? How about your wheels?
I've never retorqued wheels on a car. never had an issue in the 45 or so years I've been driving.
I'll bet I'm the same as over 95% of the population. This retorquing wheels is a relatively "new" thing.
My .02 says it only necessary when someone screws up torqueing them in the first place.
Which if the solution is to redo them then why not every other bolt/fastener on a vehicle?
They could be done wrong or be loosening up too.

I'll check the torque of these bolts on the loader brackets in approx. 50 hrs and in the mean time I'll probably look at them every time I shut it down for the day. I will mark them after I get my all one size bolts from McMaster and replace the mix mashed up setup I have now.

Its an issue cause if they were torqued properly in assembly they keep loosening.
I can see the abuse that maybe the cause of it.
But something tells me that a different design could be made more robust so that this doesn't happen.
But the current state of mfg. being what it is I'm sure the cost to make a more robust assembly is way more than just telling the customers that "hey, these bolts will get loose and fall off, so retorque them".

I could be all wet. But 60 some years of working on mechanical stuff tells me other wise, maybe I've been working on the wrong kinda stuff.

I bought the tractor (approx. 10 years old at the time) used with somewhere around 300 hours on it about a year ago.

So no, I never retorqued anything on the tractor. Didn't think I had to. Don't know if the former owner ever did it either.
 

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I've never retorqued wheels on a car. never had an issue in the 45 or so years I've been driving.
I'll bet I'm the same as over 95% of the population. This retorquing wheels is a relatively "new" thing.
I wouldn't call it a "new thing". :) Unfortunately JD has been removing older operator's manuals from the website. The oldest one I could find quickly for was for a 990 CUT circa 2000 (19 years ago). I'm willing to bet similar language is in even older manuals.

Break-in - After First 10 and 30 Hours

· Check wheel bolt torque.

Every 50 Hours


· Check wheel bolt torque.

 

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Discussion Starter #10
I wouldn't call it a "new thing". :) Unfortunately JD has been removing older operator's manuals from the website. The oldest one I could find quickly for was for a 990 CUT circa 2000 (19 years ago). I'm willing to bet similar language is in even older manuals.

Break-in - After First 10 and 30 Hours

· Check wheel bolt torque.

Every 50 Hours


· Check wheel bolt torque.

Coaltrain mentioned "vehicles wheels", I took it to mean cars, I have noticed recently that when I get new tires installed the tire place suggest checking wheel torque after a certain amount of time/mileage. I think its 100 miles.
 

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Coaltrain mentioned "vehicles wheels", I took it to mean cars, I have noticed recently that when I get new tires installed the tire place suggest checking wheel torque after a certain amount of time/mileage. I think its 100 miles.
The independent garage that I go to does the same thing. The owners wife always reminds me to retorque or stop in and they will do it for me. My answer is always the same. If I didn't trust you, I wouldn't come here. I've been driving for nearly 58 years and have never retorqued car or truck wheels. I check the wheel bolts on the tractor in the spring of each year. I don't use the loader too much, but I'll check them next spring also.
 
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The independent garage that I go to does the same thing. The owners wife always reminds me to retorque or stop in and they will do it for me. My answer is always the same. If I didn't trust you, I wouldn't come here. I've been driving for nearly 58 years and have never retorqued car or truck wheels. I check the wheel bolts on the tractor in the spring of each year. I don't use the loader too much, but I'll check them next spring also.
I personally think its a CYA thing. So when they forget to torque your wheels right in the first place and they fall off they can say "we told you to check them, its your fault!".
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thinking about this last night and I noticed that mounting surfaces for the bracket are not on the same one piece of the tractor.
Some mount on the frame and some mount on the engine and transmission. Didn't look to see where the engine transmission splits but at this point I think there are 3 different surfaces/things that the plate on the bracket bolts to.

I'll bet dollars to doughnut holes that if I take the bracket off and check the mounting surface it won't be all in one plane. I do know that there are 4 bosses welded to the back side of the bracket and when allowing for this there is more chance of a condition that when bolting it down the plate on the bracket has to be bent to ensure a tight connection.

Could this be part of the issue of having to retorque the bolts?
 

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I wouldn't call it a "new thing". :) Unfortunately JD has been removing older operator's manuals from the website. The oldest one I could find quickly for was for a 990 CUT circa 2000 (19 years ago). I'm willing to bet similar language is in even older manuals.

Break-in - After First 10 and 30 Hours

· Check wheel bolt torque.

Every 50 Hours


· Check wheel bolt torque.

The manual for my 45 year old JD 2030 says to check the wheel bolts at 4 hours and 8 hours then frequently over the next 100 hours.
For rack and pinion adjust rear axles; when the rear wheels are moved to different width/track, the manual says to check the "special bolts" (these go into the wedges) after approximately 20 revolutions of the rear wheel and BEFORE working the tractor, then at 3 hours and 10 hours.
For my 13 year old JD 6415 the manuals also says check the wheel bolts/nuts at 4 and 8 hours and frequently for the first 100 hours
For rack and pinion adjust rear axles; they now say drive 50 meters and check the special bolts, then at 4 and 8 hours, then frequently over the next 100 hours.
 
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