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Good job Government motors! Keep the bar high. Pretty sad the weights were over the Dodge GVW. I would have loved to see what the cummins would have done. IMHO, the cummins motor is always the one to aim for. GM has the tranny and Ford has the frame/suspension/body.
 

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Nice job by the article writers concerning the location. There is no Eisenhower Pass. The location is the Johnson-Eisenhower tunnels. The Johnson tunnel is named for a dead Colorado governor. The nearest pass is Loveland Pass that semis carrying hazardous cargo are routed over when CDOT and the State Patrol deems it necessary to prevent problems in the tunnels. Loveland Pass is higher than the tunnels.

Ah yes, if only pickup buyers could order powertrain options like the Class 8 truck guys can. A Ford Super Duty with a Cummins engine and Allison tranny would be a hell of a pickup.
 

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Every test out there is about how fast something can pull X amount up a hill. How about how safe can a truck pull X amount. How about a swerve test or a accident avoidable test.

Ford has the most complete package for towing, even if its not the fastest truck out there. GM and their independent front ends and hydro formed frames cannot hold a candle to the ford suspension and frame.:mocking:
 

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How about a swerve test or a accident avoidable test.
Excellent idea. I would love to see it though it would probably never happen as its not as sexy of a topic as HP and Speed

GM and their independent front ends and hydro formed frames cannot hold a candle to the ford suspension and frame.:mocking:

Care to explain your comment on the GM frames? What does ford have? I've considered the hydroformed rails to be virtually one of the strongest ways to build a frame as you end up with a fully boxed configuration and no seams.
 

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Care to explain your comment on the GM frames? What does ford have? I've considered the hydroformed rails to be virtually one of the strongest ways to build a frame as you end up with a fully boxed configuration and no seams.
None of GM frames lack seams:empathy3: They all have a front, center, and rear frame section.

Fully boxed huh... All large dump trucks and 18 wheelers (or any combination of the two) use open channel C frame. Fully boxed frames don't mean nothing for towing or hauling heavy loads. The only area where it would be helpful to have a fully boxed frame is for going off road. Fully boxed frames are stiffer and prevent the bed from shaking to much, esp when going over bumps and rocks. Its a sales gimic.

Ever seen a GM 2500 off road in an off camber situation? 2 tires will be off the ground. The front does not flex enough to allow articulation.

These tests are racing. Racing is about power to weight ratio (and traction). The Super Duty is quite a bit heavier than the GM, the Gm will more than likely beat the Super Duty in a drag race. GM is pretty petty these days when they want to win a drag race with 25K loads.

Just trying to point out that the new Gm will do whatever it takes to be best in class. Even if it means BSing their customers. Some body one ups Gm and they go back and ``reevaluate`` their product. Then as if by magic (spring dust and HP dust) they determine that they under estimated the vehicle. It appears to me now that GM really doesn`t seam to know what its vehicles are capable of. And they don`t seam to care, they just juggle numbers untill they have the best on paper.
 

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Just trying to point out that the new Gm will do whatever it takes to be best in class. Even if it means BSing their customers. Some body one ups Gm and they go back and ``reevaluate`` their product. Then as if by magic (spring dust and HP dust) they determine that they under estimated the vehicle. It appears to me now that GM really doesn`t seam to know what its vehicles are capable of. And they don`t seam to care, they just juggle numbers untill they have the best on paper.
Now, now, every manufacture out there gets caught up in this competion. If that were not true then GM will always be on top.:empathy3:
 

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Now, now, every manufacture out there gets caught up in this competion. If that were not true then GM will always be on top.:empathy3:
True Randy, but Ford does this by bettering the engines they produce. GM will just reprogram the same engine to make more power.

The best way I can say it: GM knows that the real world stuff cannot be tested. So, make a truck that can do well in all the "paper" tests and get people to buy it. IMHO, Ford keeps up with this, but they also have one stout "real life" vehicle that is made to withstand abuse. If torsion bar suspension was the way to go, dodge or ford would have followed. 2/3 of the HD trucks have a solid front axle. Is GM better because they have IFS? IMHO, no, worse, and it shows in the amount of weight you can hang off the front of it. Until 2011, they were tons (yes I mean that) behind Ford and Dodge. Have you ever seen the amount of toe that a GM front end has from fully comressed to all the way up? Its over 2"s. How can that lead to good handling over bumpy terrain. It can't!

IMHO, a truck is kind of like a tractor. You can tell how well a tractor is built by its weight. Granted the weight needs to be in the right areas, but as a rule, the heavier tractor always wins.

When towing, one way to have more control over a large load is to be heavy. There are also a ton of design tools to help.
 

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All of these competitions are a waste of time, no matter who is doing it. To know which is best is very hard to determine and for the individual owner may likely be a crapshoot anyway.

Right now my trucks are all aging, I have one '99 F550 7.3 auto 4x4, one '02 F350 7.3 auto 4x4, one '03 F250 6.0 auto 4x4 and one '05 F550 6.0 auto 4x4. While all of these have been good trucks I wouldn't say any of them have been bullet proof, all of them have had some issues and the mileage is low on all of them. All the issues are engine related though, never seem to have problems anywhere else.

I am waiting to see how the newest diesel fares with some time on it. I hope to wait until 2012 to buy a now one if their good.


I am not loyal to Ford, the other dealer in town is the GMC, Chevy and Dodge dealer and runs a poor dealership.
 

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I don't know squat about the big trucks, closest I've come is specifying a F450 with ambulance package (for bigger batteries and alternator) for our fire department brush truck. It carries 250 gallons of water and a pump, so for a brief instant in time I was up on all the axle, springs, etc.

In 1994 I got a Ford Ranger. First American vehicle I ever owned. It was fantastic, no problems. Someone ran a stoplight when it was 10 years old with 75K miles on it, that was the end of that. Got $5K to get a "new used" truck.

In 2000 we bought a Ford Escape. It's been towed to the dealer 3 times. The interior has really cheap foam that is dried out by now, it's a rattle trap. The door trim came off after 3 years, I keep putting it back on. It's a hung of junk designed for a 4 year life (maybee).

In 2005 when the Ranger was totaled, I got a F150. When I took it home and started pouring over it, I saw that the wiring harness for the engine was not attached to the various points designed to hold it, it was sitting on top of the engine. The plastic panels by the windshield wipers came off at 1 year. I took the interior for the cab apart to add my radios. The entire wiring harness was shifted such that every piece of tape they put on it to keep it from chaffing on the body was in the wrong spot, and the harness was rubbing on the bare metal in many places. The big molded assembly for the heater and vents was cracked down the middle, had to glue it together. Several of the push in pins that hold the interior panels were missing. The push in plastic pins for where you step out of the door were broken, had to get new ones. This went down the assembly line and no one stopped to make it right, if they screwed up something they just kept going.

So I affectionately refer the F150 as "My last Ford". The Ranger was perfect, the next two were poorly designed and assembled. Local Ford dealer is great, the GM dealer no one likes, so it's back to non-US vehicles for whatever is next. It's really sad that Ford had it's act together for a while, and then cost reduced itself back into the 70's. This is also why I don't assume that "Made in the USA" has any correlation to quality.

At the FD, we're looking at a rescue chassis next, will probably put it on a F550 chassis, but I'll be all over that before we take delivery.

Pete
 

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Pete:

those two Ford's you have problems with sound like high quality union made units. :lol:

Knock on wood, I'm happy with my '99 F-250.
 

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not APPLES TO Apples

IN A FEW OF THESE TESTS FORD WAS USING A f350 AGAINST A CHEVROLET 2500.TtHE EQUAL COMPARISON SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN FORD F350 AGAINST A CHEVROLET 3500......I WILL NEVER DRIVE A FORD. I'D RATHER WALK.:thumbsdown:
 

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From the sound of it, Chevy will be redoing its truck, not just the body, for 2013. The current frame has been in use since 2001. Maybe they will do some serious interior changes as current, Dodge and Ford have Chevy beat interior wise.

I don't see how you can go wrong with any of the 3/4 or 1 ton trucks built today. They all have pros and cons, but all will do the same job just about equally as well.
 

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From the sound of it, Chevy will be redoing its truck, not just the body, for 2013. The current frame has been in use since 2001. Maybe they will do some serious interior changes as current, Dodge and Ford have Chevy beat interior wise.

I don't see how you can go wrong with any of the 3/4 or 1 ton trucks built today. They all have pros and cons, but all will do the same job just about equally as well.
Totally agree, and they all make junk to. Our factory ordered 2008 Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4 megacab was in the shop 42 times in the first 25 months for everything from electrical to front end wander and rear end clunks broken exhaust manifold, you name it. Almost 4 years and 142,000km later it is a pretty nice machine now.
 

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From the sound of it, Chevy will be redoing its truck, not just the body, for 2013. The current frame has been in use since 2001. Maybe they will do some serious interior changes as current, Dodge and Ford have Chevy beat interior wise.

I don't see how you can go wrong with any of the 3/4 or 1 ton trucks built today. They all have pros and cons, but all will do the same job just about equally as well.
Incorrect!! The chassis under the current GM trucks was totally redone for 2011!! Nothing was carried over from the previous frames. The added a cover to the front diff, so now you can put a locker in the front if you wish. They had to make room for the DEF tank, and all the SCR plumbing. In fact, word on the street has it that this is actually a 4500 chassis under the 3500. The redesign will only be the body, and maybe more DMAX updates.

As for diesels, I will NEVER own a Cummins, DMAX is an awesome engine!! And with all the other options out there, like SISU, Mack MP10, Detroit DD series (MBE engines with the DD badge) the Cummins has a lot of catching up to do.
 

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As for diesels, I will NEVER own a Cummins, DMAX is an awesome engine!! And with all the other options out there, like SISU, Mack MP10, Detroit DD series (MBE engines with the DD badge) the Cummins has a lot of catching up to do.
Did you have a bad experience with Cummins? :unknown: Cummins has a always offered an excellent engine. It was cheating in 1989 when they collaborated with Dodge and installed an engine designed for school buses, construction equipment, generator sets, pumps, etc.etc into a pickup. The engine wasn't designed as a light duty as the GM and later Ford were. Even up to a few years ago, the competition's engine were still rated as light duty engines while the Cummins B series is still rated as a medium duty. (could be now, I haven't researched it lately) I do agree with you as the Duramax is a great engine. I hope Ford's new Powerstroke repairs their very badly damaged reputation. The reviews so far on the new 6.7 Powerstroke have been very favorable. Cummins has led the diesel engine industry for many many years. It is American employee owned and operated although now they are a "world" company. The B and C series midrange plant is in Indiana producing a ridiculous amount of engines for domestic and export markets. Not too many companies can say the same. I believe Clessie Cummins was not only a great American business man and innovator, but a great story and hero to many, just like John Deere. I am a proud Cummins owner. There will always be room for a Cummins in my driveway (Dodge or no Dodge).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is not necessarily yours (obviously right?) and is not meant to be taken in a disrespectful manner.:hi: I don't dislike any of the current engines, they're diesels!:thumbup1gif:

I do believe that all 3 brands make a quality product and would make most owners very happy.:yahoo:
 
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