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Another fun fact, Look at the orientation of where the seat is and how close it is to the steering wheel. There was noone in that seat after the fraudulant tipover (if there was, seat would have to be pushed back to get out of that mess) and noone was ejected from the tractor. At 69 years old, he would be hurt somehow. Then manages to have the time to snap some pics of tractor right in front of where it just kinda fell over right where he stopped mowing. People are rediculous today to get out of payments
 

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If pedals to paddles still wants to show this is untrue he can jack one rear tire with a floor jack and drive around with his brake on in a video very easily.
lol. For some reason, @rydplrs is once again claiming I said things I didn't say, in fact the total opposite, as usual. Pretty typical, but it would be nice if it wasn't regarding a system that could prevent you from dying.

And that's actually exactly what I've been doing for the last hour or so in the garage to demonstrate what's going on in there. The video is uploading to YouTube as we speak. So many people have completely different and incorrect conceptions of how the brake and diff lock interact. In 2wd with the diff lock linkage disconnected, it is exactly as I have been saying in this thread. I thought you unsubscribed?

That being said, I'm pretty sure I nor anyone else will be driving around with the brake on.... because you know, the brake is on....
 

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lol. For some reason, @rydplrs is once again claiming I said things I didn't say, in fact the total opposite, as usual. Pretty typical, but it would be nice if it wasn't regarding a system that could prevent you from dying.

And that's actually exactly what I've been doing for the last hour or so in the garage to demonstrate what's going on in there. The video is uploading to YouTube as we speak. So many people have completely different and incorrect conceptions of how the brake and diff lock interact. In 2wd with the diff lock linkage disconnected, it is exactly as I have been saying in this thread. I thought you unsubscribed?

That being said, I'm pretty sure I nor anyone else will be driving around with the brake on.... because you know, the brake is on....
If that’s not the opposite of what you said then you didn’t read what I said originally and you were arguing I was wrong by agreeing with what was actually said.
 
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If that’s not the opposite of what you said then you didn’t read what I said originally and you were arguing I was wrong by agreeing with what was actually said.
sorry but this guy is right peddles2 paddles is backtracking and now saying opposite. Nothing like an oops moment haha Maybe he bipolar
 

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Umm, no. I've been saying the same thing all along about the back brakes and diff lock interaction. And am correct about those things. You're saying two different things and none of them are entirely correct. I was also incorrect about the mfwd interaction, which I also demonstrate on the video.

You still have 2 wheel braking 1 front 1 rear if the diff lock fails.
It’s really no different from a old truck in park on a hill, in 2wd you jack up one rear tire and it will roll down the hill. In 4wd you have to jack up a second tire to let it roll, because although the rear differential will spin the spider gears, the transfer case still allows the parking pawl to hold the front axle still even though the rear tires are ready to spin in opposite directions.

If pedals to paddles still wants to show this is untrue he can jack one rear tire with a floor jack and drive around with his brake on in a video very easily.
The latter of your posts is correct and what I've been saying. We agree. The former is incorrect, which I spoke against and demonstrate on the video. I'm sorry but your explanations have contradicting themselves and also conveying dangerously incorrect information.
 

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sorry but this guy is right peddles2 paddles is backtracking and now saying opposite. Nothing like an oops moment haha Maybe he bipolar
I do appreciate that I’m not on an island alone in my viewpoint on this discussion, but let’s not continue. When I get tossed at me I’m perfectly happy with one return being the end of it. If I make a mistake in facts I’m perfectly happy to discuss it and learn from it. I don’t need a urination contest, nobody wins those.
 

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Umm, no. I've been saying the same thing all along about the back brakes and diff lock interaction. And am correct about those things. You're saying two different things and none of them are entirely correct. I was also incorrect about the mfwd interaction, which I also demonstrate on the video.





The latter of your posts is correct and what I've been saying. We agree. The former is incorrect, which I spoke against and demonstrate on the video. I'm sorry but your explanations have contradicting themselves and also conveying dangerously incorrect information.
They are the exact same description, one just uses more words, all adjectives.

Please make me this video.
 
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I don't consider "1 wheel braking" actually braking if that one wheel has no traction and is not actually applying any braking force that does anything. Perhaps that is the difference in interpretation between you and I on this. The "one wheel brake" will be the one wheel with little or no traction functionally doing nothing. Which is what I've been saying and IMO what matters. So I agree perhaps we're saying the same thing differently if that's what you're talking about.

The video is processing on YouTube.
 

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I don't see where pedals2paddles is wrong, unless I missed it somewhere.
 
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Here is a video I just made demonstrating how the brake and rear differential lock interact. This shows what will happen with generally equal traction on both rear wheels vs uneven or unequal traction on either rear wheel when the differential lock linkage from the brake is disconnected. The result will be little or no actual braking force from the back wheels. It will also demonstrate how the braking force is transmitted to the front through the MFWD. Every misconception will be demonstrated here, including one of my own related to the MFWD specifically.

  • With generally equal/even traction to both wheels, braking force will be sent to both wheels generally equally/evenly even without the diff lock. That's what an open differential does and in such circumstance, just like driving forward or backwards. This is also why you may not know the diff lock linkage is disconnected or broken. It isn't needed until you're on uneven terrain with unequal traction as demonstrated below. In other words, just because the brake worked fine driving in the parking lot, doesn't mean the diff lock is working fine.

  • Without the differential lock on uneven/unequal terrain, more or all braking force is sent to the rear wheel with the least traction. A wheel with no traction will get all the braking force. The wheel with the most traction will get the least braking force, or no braking force. It is an open differential, and this is no different than trying to drive on uneven terrain or ice. The wheel with the least traction gets less or no drive power for the same mechanical reason. Which is why you step on the diff lock pedal to force the power to both wheels. The brake pedal linkage activates the diff lock to force braking force to both wheels.

  • With 4wd engaged, the front driveshaft receives braking force regardless of what is going on in the back differential. The brake is on the input to the differential, which is mechanically connected to the front driveshaft too. It doesn't matter what the back wheels or back diff lock are doing as they have nothing to do with it. The brake will mechanically apply braking force to the front driveshaft when in 4wd regardless. This is not what I was expecting, but makes sense considering where the brake is mechanically located.

  • The front differential is also an open differential. So if there uneven traction in the front, the front braking force will be just is ineffective as the back. There is no diff lock on the front. So uneven traction on the front wheels will result in little or no braking force being applied to the ground in the front. Just like the back, the front wheel with little or no traction will get most or all of the braking force on the front. If the front has generally even/equal traction, you will get braking force generally equal to both front wheels.
For the record, this has nothing to do with whether the OP is being truthful or a troll. I don't know and I can see both sides of that and that's not what I'm debating at this time. My only concern in this is to ensure I and everyone else understands how the brakes will perform in these circumstances so we don't kill ourselves.

 

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We got trolled.
I agree completely. There’s no evidence of staging, and yet there’s no evidence or logic to back it up as described, and it requires the worst possible input from the operator to happen.
Thinking the same at this point. Especially since someone brought up the position of the operator seat as photographed.
 

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I'm sorry but this is not correct. The open differential, with uneven traction such as going down a grassy hill, will end up apply the braking force to the wheel with the least traction. This translates to no braking force at all since braking a wheel with no traction is obviously not helping you. The wheel with traction continues to freely rotate. And it will also reduce or totally eliminate any braking force on the mfwd drivetrain for front braking. The differential lock failing on uneven slippery terrain is a very serious failure that will easily lead to this kind of runaway. Compounded by the gear shift slipping into neutral, eliminating hydrostatic resistance braking force, you're toast. Even if in gear, the same uneven traction would prevent the hydrostatic drive resistance from being able to apply a braking force to the wheel with traction. The same thing would happen.

All of the above described is not a noticable factor on flat level ground with generally even traction to both wheels. You would never know the diff lock has failed on generally flat level ground because the wheels still get generally even braking. Compounding this is how infrequently the brake is even used at all due to the hydrostatic drive. It would be VERY VERY easy to not know your diff link linkage is broken until you're in a situation where you actually need it... like uneven terrain going down a grassy hill with the transmission accidentally in neutral.
So if the engine dies you have no brakes or anyway to show down? Thats crazy. I'm going to try that tomorrow and see what happens
 

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I don't consider "1 wheel braking" actually braking if that one wheel has no traction and is not actually applying any braking force that does anything. Perhaps that is the difference in interpretation between you and I on this. The "one wheel brake" will be the one wheel with little or no traction functionally doing nothing. Which is what I've been saying and IMO what matters. So I agree perhaps we're saying the same thing differently if that's what you're talking about.

The video is processing on YouTube.
1 wheel braking is one wheel stopped and the other spinning at 2x travel speed in reverse, up to to both wheels spinning in opposite directions up to travel speed. It depends on instantaneous traction and where the brake is within the system.

That’s open differential 101.

The other logic points in the list support the entire theory. They must be overlaid even though they are individual points they are still interrelated.
 

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Great video. I’d like to see you attempt driving in 2wd, because I think slow is the only way thats ‘free’ but overall it does show the initial description in this thread doesn’t match a working tractor. Brakes and 4wd had to fail simultaneously and only temporary for it to be possible.
 

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So if the engine dies you have no brakes or anyway to show down? Thats crazy. I'm going to try that tomorrow and see what happens
I think misread something in there or quoted the wrong post. I didn't say anything about the engine. But the answer is of course no, the engine running or not has nothing to do with the mechanical brakes.

1 wheel braking is one wheel stopped and the other spinning at 2x travel speed in reverse, up to to both wheels spinning in opposite directions up to travel speed. It depends on instantaneous traction and where the brake is within the system.

That’s open differential 101.

The other logic points in the list support the entire theory. They must be overlaid even though they are individual points they are still interrelated.
So yes, I believe we are actually on the same page and just using two different angles to say the same thing then arguing about it (y). I'm describing the outcome of trying to slow the machine down, and you're describing what the wheels are physically doing at the time.

Great video. I’d like to see you attempt driving in 2wd, because I think slow is the only way thats ‘free’ but overall it does show the initial description in this thread doesn’t match a working tractor. Brakes and 4wd had to fail simultaneously and only temporary for it to be possible.
Thanks. I did just try to do that. First and last time I will ever try to drive the tractor with a jack under it. But with the brake on, it doesn't go since the brake is on the input to the differential.
 

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One other thing I dont understand, and it was mentioned in previous comments. Myself and others, have gone on those outta control rides, I'm trying see how it ended up perfectly sideways in its tracks at where the mower stopped?ⁿ

Im sorry but having run mowers to heavy equipment from the moment I could reach the peddles, this looks staged to me.

In 4x4 even outta control the tractor would have turned to the left and been going at a angle. And then had to go sideways. You would have had to been spinning the wheel as fast as you could to get the wheel to turn that hard that fast to make it flip perfectly.
if the operator turned the tractor thinking he was at the bottom but wasn't at speed the tractor would flop exactly as in the picture
 

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if the operator turned the tractor thinking he was at the bottom but wasn't at speed the tractor would flop exactly as in the picture
With skid marks. Their length would depend on the depth, and they would be 1 tire height or more further down hill from where mowing stopped.
 

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With skid marks. Their length would depend on the depth, and they would be 1 tire height or more further down hill from where mowing stopped.
no skid marks needed if he just turned sharply he would flop. I've almost done that myself but quickly when she begins to lean jerk the wheel again heading down hill saving myself from flopping. Learned that with jeep cj5's in the mountains. Slopes can be deceptive and may appear to be less steep than they are. I used to brush hog steep areas using this tactic but a slight miscalculation and if lucky you flop instead of rolling over. Allways at the top not the bottom. At the top the tractor will try and go in the direction of th front wheels so instead of floping you end up going back down the hill. If you try to stop or go straight you will roll. Can't do that anymore my reaction time isnt fast enough.
 
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