[drmurray247]

On May 1st I finally got this tractor. The original reason for getting the 3rd function was to use a grapple. When I told the salesman to put this on my build he said that his computer was alerting him that since I'm choosing this option it now opened up the option to also use the 3rd function to control the MMM. He explained how the deck would normally be raised and lowered, then said instead of that method I would be using the 3rd function button. I think it was around $280 in parts plus however many hours labor to install. I decided to get the option.
Over the next 3wks I used the tractor 3 times, for a total of 18hrs, to clear over growth that my zero turn couldn't do anything about and mow at the same time. Periodically would stop mowing, raise the mmm, then use the FEL to push saplings and small trees over or break low hanging branches off. When I would go to mow again I noticed that the mmm was already down to the height i had the knob set at. At 1st I thought there was a chance I was hitting the down button while using the FEL. Started paying a lot more attention and that wasn't the case. Then I started timing it. It takes about 90-120secs and the deck is back down. As a 1st time tractor owner I wasn't sure if this was normal or not. I seached for leaks and found none. I just started making it a habit to every minute or 2 of using FEL I would push the up button and do this continuously until I got back to mowing.
On May 23rd, I went to the property again to play with my new toy. About 5hrs in, I looked down and saw the left side of mmm dragging the ground. Quickly saw the pin was missing on that side and that ended my day. Loaded it up and decided to leave it on the trailer over night and take it to the dealer the next day after work. Didn't need dealer for pin but the brakes weren't working very well since day 1, the U on front of mmm went under the hooks all 5 times I went to reconnect to deck so had to 2 man it to get it back on, shut down numerous times while using the backhoe and popped out of gear twice that day into neutral which 1 of those times it was while going up a hill so rolling backwards down the hill with poor brakes definitely made me, shall we say pucker up a little bit.
Took it to the dealer and gave them the hand written list of problems/concerns. Got the call it was ready June 3rd so went to get it after work. When I arrived I found the only thing they had done was replace the missing pin to hold the deck up and adjusted the linkage on the shifter. They said the linkage was way off which is why it popped out of gear and that's the same reason it was intermittently turning off while using the backhoe. Although I had it in neutral it was so out of whack the vibration would make it think it was no longer in neutral so would shut down for safety. Apparently they didn't look at the rest of the hand written list stapled to my work order, so it stayed there.
Got an update call from them 3 times last week. The 3rd call was the brakes were more than just making an adjustment but it done and the U bracket and deck has all been aligned and adjusted. BUT although they were sure the deck dropping was most likely the SCV was going to need a rebuild, all their tests on the SCV came back good, so they don't know what's wrong with it, but say something definitely isn't right.
As a 1st time tractor owner I honestly don't know if its normal or not. My assumption is it would have close to the same as the FEL and backhoe rate of drop. Those hold very good. When I left the FEL off the ground 6" and not running over night, it was still in the air the next day. I don't know if I should be expecting the same from the 3rd function MMM??? To be honest, I'm wondering if the dealer knows what it expect out of it either. They just opened this new location by me the end of March and quite possible their mechanics don't know either. 3rd function on these small tractor hasn't been around very long, right? Anyways, I haven't gotten any calls from them since last Wednesday.
Too late to make a long story short. Looking for some knowledge from others that have the JD 3rd function on their MMM as to what to expect with it holding up? Should I be filing a claim with JD somewhere? Should I take it to another dealer? Are they mistaken and that is normal for the MMM to drop like that so my tractor is sitting there for nothing right now??? Tomorrow is going to be a month since I gave it to them. They've had it longer than I have. What would you guys do?

 

[PlumberHome]

Wow! That's a lot happening in such a short time. I don't have any answers for you. However, my understanding is there are 2 hydraulic lifts: the lesser one is just a lift and hold button to raise, release the button and the MMM drops back down by gravity. The other one is the Premium hydraulic lift; it uses the 3rd function SCV button toggle on the FEL control to raise and lower the MMM to stop at any position.

I have a 2025R on order with the same setup, it was supposed to have been delivered to the dealer this past Wednesday (6/23), but no confirmation yet. I'm guessing the first week in July for delivery to me. I ordered it in mid March.

Once I have mine, I'll update on the 3rd function SCV and the MMM with my experience.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I have a 1025R with a 54D and the independent lift run off the 3rd SCV. The deck does drift down within a couple of minutes but that's dur to the cylinder, not the SCV. Not sure what, but it's something I've figured out how to live with. If I want the deck to stay up, I raise it and rotate the height knob to the highest setting.

 

[drmurray247]

Wow! That's a lot happening in such a short time. I don't have any answers for you. However, my understanding is there are 2 hydraulic lifts: the lesser one is just a lift and hold button to raise, release the button and the MMM drops back down by gravity. The other one is the Premium hydraulic lift; it uses the 3rd function SCV button toggle on the FEL control to raise and lower the MMM to stop at any position.

I have a 2025R on order with the same setup, it was supposed to have been delivered to the dealer this past Wednesday (6/23), but no confirmation yet. I'm guessing the first week in July for delivery to me. I ordered it in mid March.

Once I have mine, I'll update on the 3rd function SCV and the MMM with my experience.

Thank you PlumberHome. Good luck with your new toy. I was very happy with the performance of mine while I had it. Look forward to some pics of your when you get it.

 

[drmurray247]

I have a 1025R with a 54D and the independent lift run off the 3rd SCV. The deck does drift down within a couple of minutes but that's dur to the cylinder, not the SCV. Not sure what, but it's something I've figured out how to live with. If I want the deck to stay up, I raise it and rotate the height knob to the highest setting.

Thanks for your experience with your 3rd function. If that was the only thing happening on my tractor I would've probably assumed it is normal and just asked them about it, to be sure, when I took it in for the 50hrs. If they would've told me that it is normal then I would have it home already. Now that they've told me they don't believe it to be normal, I'll still accept it as normal if they (or John Deere) put it in writing. At this point I hope it is confirmed that something isn't right. To me its easier to accept it being gone for a reason, then to find out it's sitting there right now for nothing.

 

[drmurray247]

UPDATE....just got a call from the dealer. JD has responded to the Dtac ticket that the dropping of the mmm after raising with the 3rd function is normal. It recommended to do as MarkEagleUSA has described he's doing with his. Raise the deck, adjust the knob to the highest setting while doing things other than mowing, then raise again to take the weight off, adjust to whatever height and lower the deck.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

It puzzles me why Deere can't offer a hydraulic mower lift that doesn't creep down. My 30 yr old Cub Cadet 1641 will hold the deck up overnight. It will leak down over 24 hrs, but that's still infinitely better than Deere.

I believe this has to do with the lift cylinder, not the SCV.

 

[drmurray247]

It puzzles me why Deere can't offer a hydraulic mower lift that doesn't creep down. My 30 yr old Cub Cadet 1641 will hold the deck up overnight. It will leak down over 24 hrs, but that's still infinitely better than Deere.

I believe this has to do with the lift cylinder, not the SCV.

Yes. You're 100% right. It is the cylinder, not the SCV. But they said there's nothing wrong with the cylinder. It's normal operation. I agree with you. I'd like to think they could put a cylinder on that doesn't have this bleed down, but they didn't. They said I'll get it in writing and is 100% attached to the Dtac ticket which is permanently in JD system on my tractors VIN/serial number. They're going to do a final inspection of the whole tractor tomorrow morning before telling me it's ready for pickup. Its the best news I've gotten all week.
Since it's been in the shop my Artillian double grapple setup, forks, frontier tiller and Baumalight stump grinder have arrived. Happy to see all these things, I ordered months ago, finally arrive but not being able to use any of them has made it that more stressful being in the shop.
Thanks again for letting me know your personal experience with your 3rd function & MMM. Definitely made it more believable when they called me and said "it's normal".

 

[RayLagrange]

Yes. You're 100% right. It is the cylinder, not the SCV. But they said there's nothing wrong with the cylinder. It's normal operation. I agree with you. I'd like to think they could put a cylinder on that doesn't have this bleed down, but they didn't. They said I'll get it in writing and is 100% attached to the Dtac ticket which is permanently in JD system on my tractors VIN/serial number. They're going to do a final inspection of the whole tractor tomorrow morning before telling me it's ready for pickup. Its the best news I've gotten all week.
Since it's been in the shop my Artillian double grapple setup, forks, frontier tiller and Baumalight stump grinder have arrived. Happy to see all these things, I ordered months ago, finally arrive but not being able to use any of them has made it that more stressful being in the shop.
Thanks again for letting me know your personal experience with your 3rd function & MMM. Definitely made it more believable when they called me and said "it's normal".

It’s Not the cylinder. If it were you would have oil all over the deck. It’s a single acting cylinder which means oil is used on one side to push or extend the cylinder and gravity is used to lower it when you move the scv to lower it.(it has a vent to let air in the other side as it goes down and if the oil were leaking past the inner seals it would be forced out the vent.) I have the optional rear scv and the mmm hose is routed to the back. I have the same leak down issue. I spoke with my dealer who then contacted Deere and we were told the scv isn’t able to hold the deck. To make a scv to hold it would cost too much and then couldn’t compete price wise with the competition. I now wish I had the three point lift mechanism for the mmm, because that would hold it up. Obviously the third function valve is letting it leak down.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

It’s Not the cylinder. If it were you would have oil all over the deck. It’s a single acting cylinder which means oil is used on one side to push or extend the cylinder and gravity is used to lower it when you move the scv to lower it.(it has a vent to let air in the other side as it goes down and if the oil were leaking past the inner seals it would be forced out the vent.) I have the optional rear scv and the mmm hose is routed to the back. I have the same leak down issue. I spoke with my dealer who then contacted Deere and we were told the scv isn’t able to hold the deck. To make a scv to hold it would cost too much and then couldn’t compete price wise with the competition. I now wish I had the three point lift mechanism for the mmm, because that would hold it up. Obviously the third function valve is letting it leak down.

If that's true why doesn't my grapple jaw leak down when attached to the same SCV?

 

[JDJake]

It puzzles me why Deere can't offer a hydraulic mower lift that doesn't creep down. My 30 yr old Cub Cadet 1641 will hold the deck up overnight. It will leak down over 24 hrs, but that's still infinitely better than Deere.

I believe this has to do with the lift cylinder, not the SCV.

Ask the engineers at Deere. Look at the size of the cylinder, the location, and the specs. Now look at the cost of said cylinder and comparable ones. Look at the cost of adding holding valves to said cylinder. I work on Deere products five days a week, and I can honestly say sometimes their engineers leave a lot to be desired. But, it is their products, they design them how THEY want. All I can say is, if anybody has a better idea, take it up with Deere's design engineers.

 

[drmurray247]

It’s Not the cylinder. If it were you would have oil all over the deck. It’s a single acting cylinder which means oil is used on one side to push or extend the cylinder and gravity is used to lower it when you move the scv to lower it.(it has a vent to let air in the other side as it goes down and if the oil were leaking past the inner seals it would be forced out the vent.) I have the optional rear scv and the mmm hose is routed to the back. I have the same leak down issue. I spoke with my dealer who then contacted Deere and we were told the scv isn’t able to hold the deck. To make a scv to hold it would cost too much and then couldn’t compete price wise with the competition. I now wish I had the three point lift mechanism for the mmm, because that would hold it up. Obviously the third function valve is letting it leak down.

It'll be interesting to see what I do get in writing. As of right now, all I have is what the GM of this location told me over the phone this evening. Not to say he can't use a screwdriver or wrench, but I'd venture to say that I don't believe he's that knowledgeable of the mechanical side of tractors and the correct terminology. I say that based on his descriptions of the repairs over the last few weeks. I don't hold that against him as he's hired to be the GM, not the certified mechanic. The 2 times I talked to the mechanic directly, I could tell I was talking to a mechanic, not a salesman or GM.

 

[JDJake]

If that's true why doesn't my grapple jaw leak down when attached to the same SCV?

Single acting cylinder versus dual acting cylinder. One side of the single acting cylinder is vented to atmosphere. With a dual acting cylinder you have oil on both sides, so to leak down it has to overcome pressure on one side, and suction on the other. As stated earlier, length and diameter of the cylinders also come into play.

 

[drmurray247]

Single acting cylinder versus dual acting cylinder. One side of the single acting cylinder is vented to atmosphere. With a dual acting cylinder you have oil on both sides, so to leak down it has to overcome pressure on one side, and suction on the other. As stated earlier, length and diameter of the cylinders also come into play.

True. It is a single hose to MMM as opposed to the 2 hose setup to the front for a grapple. Again, I'll be interested to read the write up for it when they call me. I'm no tractor mechanic and have very little hydraulic experience, but I do have 27yrs of being a HVAC mechanic/technician and can hold my own on a car, so it won't be easy to pull a fast one over on me.

 

[JDJake]

True. It is a single hose to MMM as opposed to the 2 hose setup to the front for a grapple. Again, I'll be interested to read the write up for it when they call me. I'm no tractor mechanic and have very little hydraulic experience, but I do have 27yrs of being a HVAC mechanic/technician and can hold my own on a car, so it won't be easy to pull a fast one over on me.

Most solenoid operated valves hold pressure coming from one direction, in this case, fluid supply from the tractor. Depending on the valves design, if enough back pressure is created, it will push the valve open enough to cause leak down.

 

[RayLagrange]

If that's true why doesn't my grapple jaw leak down when attached to the same SCV?

It’s not as heavy as the mmm. And the angle vs leverage. If you look at the short lever the mmm cylinder has to push vs the angle leverage on the grapple it’ll make sense to you.