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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I am trying to decide if I get a true 3rd function or a diverter valve. I think if I could get a electro-hydraulic proportional 3rd function I would probably just go that way, but I haven't seen much talk about it, and I don't really know of any options. My uses for the 3rd function will be the angle for my plow and a grapple eventually. I am thinking that it would nice to have the capability to feather the grapple, so I am sort of leaning toward the diverter valve. I think the downside is that I couldn't use two functions at once. So I have a couple questions to help me decide.

Anyone have experience with a true 3rd function on a 2038R, and are you able to curl the bucket and close the grapple at the same time?

The second question is more about how the hydraulics of the tractor work. I am worried that with a diverter I wouldn't have any pressure relief, and with the plow at full angle it seems that it would be easy to hit something and over-pressure that system and cause damage to the cylinders/lines/diverter valve. I know a crossover relief valve would help in this situation, but it got me thinking about the rest of the loader hydraulics and I realized I don't really understand how the pressure relief valve works. I know when you have the loader valve activated and you are pushing against something that takes more pressure than the system allows the PRV kicks in and I am assuming lets fluid 'bypass' to somewhere.

My question is if the loader valve is not activated and something over-pressures the system, does the PRV still work? Or does it only work with the loader valve is activated (in use)?

Hopefully that makes some sense. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Brandon
 

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Brandon, welcome to GTT.
There is LOTS of discussion on this, most with the new large frame 2R series have gone with the WR Long setup, one member (homesteadjoe) has written extensively about it and even has some YouTube video's on it including installation. As for the "two functions at once" thing, he can comment on that, but it's just not the big deal people make it out to be, plus with the lower GPM flow rates of most compact tractors if you can do it, it's very slow.

There is no consumer grade, inexpensive (relative term of course as we are talking about hydraulics) electro-hydraulic proportional valves on the market, so that option is really off the table. When using a true 3rd function, it's very easy to control the speed of thing like a plow or grapple with the use of simple fixed or variable flow restrictors, although it's not "feathering", it's very effective. Even when using a diverter they are still often needed when you have a higher flow rate and small cylinder like whats found on most grapples. FYI, I believe Artillian now has a diverter option for these models.

Now, onto your last concern:
My question is if the loader valve is not activated and something over-pressures the system, does the PRV still work? Or does it only work with the loader valve is activated (in use)?


It does not matter if you have a true 3rd, or a diverted circuit - when the valve is in neutral and the ports are blocked so the cylinders cannot move and there is NO pressure relief. On a snowplow, you can add in what's called a "crossover relief valve" AKA "cushion valve" to help protect the cylinders, hoses, and fittings, many consumer grade and all commercial grade truck and tractor plows have them installed externally or are built into the pump/controllers. We sell one on our website (not trying to sell, just as an FYI) and have more info posted there about them.


PS: I am moving this to the hydraulic forum as the info can apply to any machine.
 

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Awwww Kenny don’t be shy.....I added a third function to my loader and it works fine. My tractor also has rear hydraulic couplers on it and I prefer to keep them available for other uses....
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Hi Kenny,

Thanks for the welcome and the information! I have lurked around these forums for a very long time, I also have a GT235 that has served me very well and this website has been invaluable for that machine, and hopefully I will have be able to contribute a little more with my new 2038R.

I have read lots on the W.R. Long third function and probably every post HomesteadJoe has made on the topic, but was still not clear if these tractors were really able to activate both functions at the same. I know when I am using construction equipment it is very nice to be able to activate 2 functions at the same time. On a Gen1 2025R I used it was also easy to dump/raise at the same time, with my 2038R it is less easy to find that sweet spot. I am hoping that this will change as the tractor breaks in.

I don't think that feather is really what is important to me exactly, I think being able to change the speed seems like it would be valuable, most of the time a higher speed is probably preferable with the grapple, but I have thought of a decent amount of tasks around my place that a slower more precise grapple would be really nice, e.g moving really large pots around the property that the wife has!

Thank you for the clarification on how pressure relief works, I thought that may be the case and I think it makes a diverter seem like the way to go as installation is easier and cost is lower.

I guess my only real question left would be why a true 3rd function if you can't really use, or it isn't important to use, two functions at the same time?

Thanks,
Brandon
 

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With my Gen 1 2032r I have learned to feather the loader and 46BH controls to be able to work two functions at the same time. That said with my Artillian diverter and grapple I have absolutely zero need to try and access the original and the diverted circuit at the same time. Grapple operating becomes second nature with the diverter controls and instantaneous switching between curl/uncurl and open/close of the grapple-everyone I’ve demonstrated the grapple to has been amazed at the speed and ability of the grapple and I couldn’t ask for a better setup-and I work in heavy construction with everything from mini skid steer’s to D12 dozers, huge Excavators and loaders so I know what equipment is capable of.

Bottom line is with practice you’ll get fast enough and the controls are quick enough to respond that you’ll easily find the limitations of your machine before you really realize any benefit from wanting dual functionality.
 

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Hi all,

I am trying to decide if I get a true 3rd function or a diverter valve. I think if I could get a electro-hydraulic proportional 3rd function I would probably just go that way, but I haven't seen much talk about it, and I don't really know of any options. My uses for the 3rd function will be the angle for my plow and a grapple eventually. I am thinking that it would nice to have the capability to feather the grapple, so I am sort of leaning toward the diverter valve. I think the downside is that I couldn't use two functions at once. So I have a couple questions to help me decide.

Anyone have experience with a true 3rd function on a 2038R, and are you able to curl the bucket and close the grapple at the same time?

The second question is more about how the hydraulics of the tractor work. I am worried that with a diverter I wouldn't have any pressure relief, and with the plow at full angle it seems that it would be easy to hit something and over-pressure that system and cause damage to the cylinders/lines/diverter valve. I know a crossover relief valve would help in this situation, but it got me thinking about the rest of the loader hydraulics and I realized I don't really understand how the pressure relief valve works. I know when you have the loader valve activated and you are pushing against something that takes more pressure than the system allows the PRV kicks in and I am assuming lets fluid 'bypass' to somewhere.

My question is if the loader valve is not activated and something over-pressures the system, does the PRV still work? Or does it only work with the loader valve is activated (in use)?

Hopefully that makes some sense. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Brandon
I installed the WR Long 3rd function kit on my 2038R. I use it primarily to operate the Everything Attachments 55" Wicked Root Rake Grapple i have. To answer your question about curling the bucket and closing the grapple at the same time, the answer is yes it does BUT there is limited hydraulic flow available and the fluid takes the path of least resistance first, so sometimes if the curl up/down load exceeds the grapple open/close load, the majority of the fluid will flow to the grapple pistons first until the clamping load exceeds that of the curl function and then the curl will move faster.... Can you grasp that concept based on my explanation?

Homestead Joe Moving a Boulder with 2038R EA 55â€Â Wicked Root Rake Grapple - YouTube

Homestead Joe Logging with 2038R EA 55â€Â Wicked Root Rake Grapple - YouTube

Installing WR Long 3rd Function Hydraulics on 2017 John Deere 2038R - YouTube

HomesteadJoe and 2038R using EA 55â€Â Wicked Root Rake Grapple moving some brush - YouTube

John Deere 2038R with 55 Wicked Root Grapple Tackling Big Log - YouTube

John Deere 2038R logging with 55 Wicked Root Grapple - YouTube

Sincerely
 

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In part answer; I use a rear SCV for my grapple and never found a need to feather it. My SCV has "detents" for both open and close. I just move the handle for the SCV to detent and let the valve do the work. While the grapple is closing, I might be lifting the loader's boom or shifting to reverse. When openning to dump on the burn pile I might be dumping the bucket cylinders at the same time and/or shifting to reverse.
 
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