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2305 differential failure

31K views 73 replies 21 participants last post by  Gareth96 
#1 ·
Posted on a similar thread but thought I'd start my own and add a few pics. The tractor is a 2008 and belongs to a friend who's a landscaper. Just rolled over 600 hours when the differential came apart and lost rear drive. All ten bolts worked loose, broke off or fell out of the bull gear. When that happens the wheels are completely loose and freewheel. The tractor has only a pinion brake so you have no brakes at all. Luckily he was using front wheel assist along with the tiller and loader or it could have been much worse. He was landscaping a yard at a new house on the edge of a long steep hill.

He bought the tractor in 2016 with 180 hours on it. I serviced the transmission and found some aluminum filings so cleaned it up and changed the oil. After 8-10 hours I drained the oil again, checked the screen and found no filings. Don't know if he had any service done since then, I haven't had it in my shop. He said he had been noticing some noise when he'd road the tractor between jobs, but seemed fine when in the dirt or under load. I found all ten bolts in the bottom of the case, all of them are bent and have the threads chewed up. One bolt was broken off in the gear but I was able to screw the piece out with my fingers, no locktite at all on any of the bolts. The case has some minor damage and the differential carrier has the holes egged out. The side cover is destroyed. The bull gear has some marks on the top edge of the teeth but it will clean up with a file. Have most of the cleanup done just waiting on all the parts to come in.
 

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#4 ·
My initial search of possible problems found his post, as soon as I saw it I just knew I had the same issue.

Says in the manual to use high strength thread locker on these bolts, but they apparently skipped that step. Not one bolt had sign of any in the threads. One bolt was still fully engaged in the gear but snapped off, I turned the piece out easily with my fingers.

Kinda surprised me how easy removing the whole assembly was. In only four hours I had it on the table with the side open, that included pulling the rear cover first to confirm what I thought was the problem.
 
#13 ·
This is unfortunate for sure. It seems like the post about this issue earlier this year or late last year, was in Canada, if I recall correctly. Its clear there is now an issue which those with the 2305's should be very careful to pay attention to. It would be handy to see if we could get the VIN number on the other tractor which experienced this failure to see if there is some similarities.

Are the rear end assemblies in the 2305 and the 2320 the same model units? I couldn't really find the specific units listed by model number for these machines. The tractors are so similar in size and both were made largely at the same time........2006-2011 for the 2305 and 2006-2012 for the 2320.

Actually, the gears and axles, bearings and case in the SCUTS and even like in my 455 with the K91 Tuff Torq are very stout and if assembled correctly and serviced, very few catastrophic or even hard part failures. I was pleasantly surprised when I went into the rear end assembly on my 455 with 2,600 hours on it. Other than needing gaskets and some seals and the PTO clutch and PTO clutch brake shoe, everything else in the case was like new. When was the last time someone posted on GTT that they had to put any gears, axles, bearings,(hard parts) in any of these rear end assemblies? It's not very common, for sure.

Now, that I think about it, I wonder if it would be possible to get an inspection camera probe down through the case filler neck area where you could visually see the ring gear bolts...??... Inserting a remote inspection camera probe into the case would be a very good idea to look for any signs of abnormalities or wear. It sure would be great if you could, verses having to disassemble to verify.

It would be a good idea for those with these machines to invest in a proper filter opening tool to check the filters for metal wear material, in addition to the shavings. It would also probably be a good idea to service the hydro's every 200 hours or less, just to keep an eye on the fluid and possible debris as the OP on this thread suggested. The moment anything out of the ordinary occurs, a noise, vibration, etc. it must be checked carefully.

This is the filter opening tool I have always used and really like it. There are cheaper alternatives out there, but we opened every filter every time, so I wanted the best quality tool which was easy to use........

Amazon.com: Longacre 77750 Oil Filter Cutter Tool Model: 77750 Car/Vehicle Accessories/Parts: Automotive
 
#15 ·
Now, that I think about it, I wonder if it would be possible to get an inspection camera probe down through the case filler neck area where you could visually see the ring gear bolts...??... Inserting a remote inspection camera probe into the case would be a very good idea to look for any signs of abnormalities or wear. It sure would be great if you could, verses having to disassemble to verify.
The filler neck goes into the front case area so that's a no go, but I think you could go up through the hole for the suction strainer in the bottom of the case. There isn't much room between the differential carrier and the side cover but you might be able to get in along the bottom of the bull gear and then carefully rotate the assembly to see the bolts one at a time. I plan to test that theory when I get it reassembled and it's still on the bench. That flat area between the strainer and the bull gear is where most all the bolts ended up.

You can also pull off the back cover easily, you only have to remove the three point arms and hitch, then you can see the bull gear and the ends of the bolts as they go through the gear. I was able to reach in and move the gear with my finger so I knew it was completely loose from the carrier.
 
#14 ·
This same situation happened to me with my 1986 GT430 about 6 years ago. The difference in my case was that John Deere had worked on my tractor and they didn't use Locktite either. :banghead: All the bolts had worked themselves loose and eventually sheared off. Before all the bolts sheared and the tractor became completely immobile, the broken bolts kept wedging themselves between the gears and the casing, which cracked the casing. The gears themselves were not damaged as they are very tough. Not many parts were still available, but luckily, I found a used transaxle from a 300 series and transplanted my 2 speed gears in it, making sure Locktite was used. A lot of work for such a simple mistake. "Just Locktite It." :gizmo::nunu:
 
#16 ·
My 2305 is a 2008 with 250 hours. I presently have it up on blocks to grease the drive shaft u-joints, service trans and change engine oil. I'm starting to get a little paranoid after reading this post. :unknown:

If I see any shavings at all in the suction strainer I'm going to remove the 3 point and pull rear cover. My son has a probe camera so I'm going to try the idea from the previous post about going in through the strainer opening for a look. From the tag S/N my unit was likely built before the one in this thread.

May be time to trade?
 

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#19 ·
My 2305 I believe is a 2008 with 466 hours.

SN#: LV2305H520263

I literally just changed the Hydro fluid and filter. I tried to pull out the screen but it was to much of a PIA I said screw it since I was changing the fluid early anyway. This really is scary and I can't afford a trade in or the money to fix it if something happens. Fortunately I don't have any problems at the moment but it sounds like the only way I can check if this is a problem is draining $100 worth of brand new fluid....
Keep in mind that there are two known "victims" who have reported this problem among all of the tractors sold over the run of the 2305 which was 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, so technically 6 model years. Hopefully, the scope of the parts not being lock tited properly was one employee at the rear end assembly companies bad Friday afternoon and it only impacted a hand full of units.

Since the average one of these machines is now more than 10 years old, it would lead me to reason this isn't a widespread issue as it sure hasn't been reported as a frequent issue. Actually, these machines have very few issues inside the hydro case, etc. It's the driveshaft not being greased and now this, which seem to be two "known" areas to watch and be aware of. Fortunately, they are both regarding issues which owners can be proactive and avoid a potentially devastating repair bill.

It is interesting that both of these machines which have had a failure seem to have very low hours (comparatively). A 10 year old machine with 400 to 500 hours on it is a low hour machine in my book.

I know if I owned a 2305, I would wait to see if "iamrfixit", the GTT member who started this thread, has any luck seeing the gear and bolts with the inspection camera. That is going to be very interesting if he can. Then, you could drain the hydro when servicing it and allow the camera to carefully look around for any signs of the metal shavings in the case or any case damage or that the ring gear is not tight and running square.
If such an inspection with the camera isn't possible, I would be removing the 3 point hitch and pulling the rear cover. The rear cover uses a gasket, which is part number LVU802920, so I would make sure to have that on hand. Just make sure to really clean the area around the back case carefully with both a blower and then a power washer as you certainly don't want to introduce any dirt into the rear case when the rear cover is removed.

Personally, I FIRST would check the torque on the bolts first and see what they show (I would want to know). I bet the vast majority are going to be spot on the recommended torque number. If the bolts are all torqued correctly, the chances are they were installed correctly, using lock tite.

If it were my machine, I would pull the bolts one by one and be CERTAIN they all have lock tite and they are all torqued correctly when you reassemble it. I wouldn't pull more than one bolt at a time to apply the lock tite and then re-torquing them, just to keep the gear tight while going through this process (verses pulling all the bolts out of the gear at the same time.)

Then, of course, since you are already in there, it would make sense to check the torque on everything which you can see in the case when opened. All of the specific torque numbers are in the Technical Service Manual. I would also pull the PTO clutch when the rear cover is removed. You can measure the PTO clutch disc thickness and check the PTO clutch brake shoe and if worn, deal with that issue when inside the case. Now would be the time to check it and replace if needed.

It's a critical way to avoid a catastrophic failure that frankly could make the issue of repairing the machine an economic challenge. I bet if one had to pay the dealer to perform the repairs being described, they would have at least 10 to 12 hours of labor in the job plus the parts, assuming they removed the entire rear assembly as did "Iamrfixit" did, which is exactly what must be done when going into the case not sure what's damaged and broken.

I would guess the time to pull the rear 3 point hitch arms, remove the rear cover and perform the check on the bolts, etc, and reassemble and fluid and filter change is likely a 2 to 3 hour job for most with experience and the professional tools.

Personally, if the machine has been good for your needs and you like it, I certainly wouldn't trade it just because of this POTENTIAL issue. If you are not able to do the work I described above with pulling the cover, etc. have someone who is a skilled mechanic perform the work for you and then you have peace of mind that this issue won't be looming to potentially cause you trouble down the road.
 
#17 ·
My 2305 I believe is a 2008 with 466 hours.

SN#: LV2305H520263

I literally just changed the Hydro fluid and filter. I tried to pull out the screen but it was to much of a PIA I said screw it since I was changing the fluid early anyway. This really is scary and I can't afford a trade in or the money to fix it if something happens. Fortunately I don't have any problems at the moment but it sounds like the only way I can check if this is a problem is draining $100 worth of brand new fluid....
 
#18 · (Edited)
Drain it into a nice clean pan and there's no reason you can't reuse it. Get the pan with the clean fluid out of there before you do any work and you won't contaminate the fluid. Getting the strainer out is kind of a pain but not impossible, taking off the left side wheel and tire makes it easier. Remove both hose clamps and work the hose elbow loose, can't remember for sure, think I removed the short hose completely and then pulled the strainer cover and screen.

Been thinking about inspecting and a better option might be to pull the axle housing on the right side. There is a small rectangular hole in the side cover that *might* let you actually get a socket on the bolt. If that's the case then you could actually take the bolts out one at a time and put loctite on them. My bolts were all gone and the side cover so chewed up I couldn't tell for sure. I didn't pull the axle housing until the whole unit was off but I think the OP on the other thread did remove his with the unit still in the tractor. The axle housing is easy enough to remove, just a few bolts and then it pulls right off. No gasket required, just uses silicone on the mating surfaces. I didn't get a pic but of mine with the side cover still on, but he had one on his post, I attached it below.

If you did find the bolts and gear loose it pretty much has to be opened up. The bolts will egg the holes out as they work back and forth which causes the metal to roll up around the holes. You'd never be able to pull the gear up completely tight against the carrier. Even as bad as mine looked, there was really only 2 holes where that happened on the back side. All of the holes were damaged on the outside, 3-4 of them were egged out pretty bad. The threads in the gear are almost perfect condition.
 

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#21 · (Edited)
This morning I drained the transmission in my 2305 with 250 hours , removed the filter and pulled the suction strainer. The trans oil was surprisingly clear. The strainer had a very small amount of grit on the bottom and the magnets had nothing on them. I stuck a finger into the case and felt a thin lay of sludge on the bottom. After lunch I'm going to swab out the bottom of the case with shop towels wrapped around a mechanics magnet. If I don't find any more debris, I'm going to close it up.

I would like to visually check the bull gear bolts however I have a lot of work I need to catch up so that will need to wait for winter. I don't believe there is a problem at this point.:good2:

UPDATE: I cleaned out the bottom of the trans/diff housing with paper shop towels wrapped around a magnet. Mostly thin layer of brown sludge. You can see a portion of the bull gear thru the suction strainer opening. I have 3 small pry bars with angled tips which I used to apply pressure to the gear. There was no movement at all, so it appears to be in excellent condition.

My tractors had an easy life to this point, mostly maintaining 600 ft driveway, moving dirt, pushing snow, etc. This summer I need to reshape my backyard to improve water drainage. This will include a lot of box scraper work and moving dirt. I intend to check it again after the yard work is completed.
 

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#24 ·
:thumbup1gif::good2:IamRFixit,

Your detailed explanation of the problem as well as the possible inspection solutions are extremely helpful to anyone who might be facing this issue. Thank you for doing a great job on the subject matter and taking the time to not only share the experience, but to consider things such as possible inspection methods, etc. The way you have dealt with this thread has made it very informative and very helpful to all who own or might be repairing a similar machine.

My experience has been that it's often easier on these small tractors to simply pull the entire rear unit out of the tractor and then get it up onto a work bench or table for careful inspection and repair. With the age of the machine, it's a very prudent move to carefully consider the replacement of such things as the PTO seals and also the "wear parts" such as seals on the differential lock shaft, the swash plate and so on, especially when you have the entire assembly out of the machine.

I couldn't tell from the parts illustration if the mid PTO shaft or even the rear one, for that matter, have seals which can be replaced from the exterior of the case without tearing down the assembly to reach the seals from the inside. If the seals can be replaced from the exterior, doing so while the unit is out sure makes the process easier. As we know, often grass and other debris can end up wrapped around the PTO shafts and can get packed very tightly against the seals, plus just the wear on the seals from the shaft rotation make considering the condition of these pieces when you already have the assembly out of the machine a prudent move.

Thanks for making this thread of the highest value to those who own these machines with your thorough explanations, the detailed photos and for taking to time to respond to others posts on the subject. Your extra effort and time spent on this subject has made this thread of the highest value to all who own or might be working on these machines. Plus, it's made the process of interest for all to follow.

Thank you for doing a Great job on your posting and the information you are providing on the subject. :bigthumb:I am glad to see you have joined the GTT website.:good2:
 
#25 ·
Thanks for making this thread of the highest value to those who own these machines with your thorough explanations, the detailed photos and for taking to time to respond to others posts on the subject. Your extra effort and time spent on this subject has made this thread of the highest value to all who own or might be working on these machines. Plus, it's made the process of interest for all to follow.

X2! :thumbup1gif:
 
#32 ·
When an issue such as this arises, it causes many of those who own the model of the machine to really worry about what, if anything they should do. Some have already asked if they should be "trading their machines" or get rid of them before a problem happens. These are reasonable questions, but its important to not allow emotions to cloud your decision making.

Important Facts to Keep in Mind about this Bull Gear Fastener Failure.

1. These 2305 machines were built between 2006 - 2011. That makes these machines anywhere from 8 to 13 years old.

2. The number of cases reported of these failures is extremely low, with just a few (2?) documented that have been related to GTT.

3. The failure of these machines seems to happen around the 500 hour of use time frame. In the case of this machine, the fluid change which happened at about 1/3 of the total hours of when the failure occurred, did demonstrate the bolts were striking the case side cover because of the aluminum shavings in the case.

4. It appears the failure is a very progressive process and not something which suddenly happened. From the time the bull gear bolts were loose enough to rub the side cover until the same bolts came out and the catastrophic failure took place could have taken 300 to 400 more hours to take place.

This means there are plenty of opportunities to be monitoring the conditions of your tractors hydro assembly.


If I owned a 2305, here is how I would deal with this matter.
Full Disclosure, This is strictly MY opinion. Others should do what they think is best. If you lie awake at night worrying about what might happen, then perhaps you should open the case and confirm you don't need to do anything or sell the tractor. But I certainly wouldn't let my emotions get the better of me. I would proceed and make decisions based upon evidence and facts, not fear and worry. I know, for some it's far easier said than done, but there is no point in taking unnecessary financial losses or incurring expenses when there isn't evidence of wear or a problem.


Starting point regardless of machine hours - I would immediately perform a hydro service and very carefully examine inside the sump with at least a flashlight and ideally a remote inspection camera. I would carefully look around inside the case at anything I can see looking for any signs of wear, etc. I would also insert the inspection camera into the filler neck and also into the area around the spin on filter and carefully inspect everything you can see, for any signs of anything out of the ordinary. Slow and steady, looking for signs of wear of any metallic debris.

An inspection camera would be helpful and a camera where you can record the file for later comparison would be very helpful. Even if the access for the probe is limited, getting inside the case and looking around is certainly more likely to find something which warrants further review than not being able to.

Important Point - At any point in the process, whether its the initial hydro change to start the process or during a change outlined based upon hours, regardless of hours on the machine, If I found any signs of aluminum or excessive metallic wear, I would open the rear case cover and torque the bull gear after adding lock tite to each bolt.

I would inspect and check the torque on everything accessible in the case. Aluminum can only result from something not wearing correctly which would need to be addressed. The failure appears to take some time so the minute you see evidence of case wear or other excessive metallic wear, its best to open the case and address it. Doing so can prevent a catastrophic failure and massive repair bill.

During the use of the machine and between scheduled fluid changes, if I noticed a new strange sound or a difference in the sound of the machine when in motion, either forward or reverse, I would stop and perform another fluid change, looking for signs of wear or metallic debris. If none was found, I would have to decide whether to proceed with the new fluid or open the case at that time. Much would depend upon the type of noise, how and when it occurs, etc. Its an individual judgement call at that point.

Assuming there is no evidence of wear or metal fragments during the initial hydro service, Then based upon the machines total hours of use, here is how I would proceed.


Total machine hours of 0 up to 250 hours
I would change the hydro oil every 75 hours and very carefully watch for any signs of metallic wear inside the case. If there are any signs of aluminum in the case, I would remove the rear end assembly and open the case and properly torque the Bull Gear after removing each bolt and properly adding Lock Tite.

Total machine hours of 251 to 750 hours
This appears to be the most critical stage in the machines possible failure. Therefore, I would proceed very carefully and I would be diligent for any signs of strange noises or variations in how the machine drives and operates. If there are any new noises or issues, I would immediately perform another hydro service looking for metallic wear.

Any material which was found, I would determine if its iron or aluminum. I would change the hydro oil every 50 hours and very carefully watch for any signs of metallic wear inside the case. If there are any signs of aluminum in the case, I would remove the rear end assembly and open the case and properly torque the Bull Gear after removing each bolt and properly adding Lock Tite.


Total machine hours of 751 to 999 hours
I would change the hydro oil every 100 hours and very carefully watch for any signs of metallic wear inside the case.

Total machine hours of 1,000+ hours
I would change the hydro oil every 200 hours and very carefully watch for any signs of metallic wear inside the case. If there are any signs of aluminum in the case, I would remove the rear end assembly and open the case and properly torque the Bull Gear after removing each bolt and properly adding Lock Tite.


Chances are there are going to be very few issues with very few machines. But I definitely would carefully monitor the tractors operation for unusual wear or strange noises or behavior.


Otherwise, I would use the tractor and follow all other service issues per the service schedule. But I wouldn't make any trade decisions or actions based upon what "might" happen as chances are, your machine is going to be just fine and not have any problems.

Keep an eye on the machine, pay attention to strange noises or behavior by the tractor and respond accordingly. Any signs of aluminum wear inside the hydro case and I would be pulling the 3 point hitch arms and removing the rear cover of the hydro case and properly torquing the bull gear after pulling each bolt and applying Lock tite.

Otherwise, it would be tractoring on..............:greentractorride::greentractorride:
 
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#37 ·
When an issue such as this arises, it causes many of those who own the model of the machine to really worry about what, if anything they should do. Some have already asked if they should be "trading their machines" or get rid of them before a problem happens. These are reasonable questions, but its important to not allow emotions to cloud your decision making.

This means there are plenty of opportunities to be monitoring the conditions of your tractors hydro assembly.


If I owned a 2305, here is how I would deal with this matter.
Full Disclosure, This is strictly MY opinion. Others should do what they think is best. If you lie awake at night worrying about what might happen, then perhaps you should open the case and confirm you don't need to do anything or sell the tractor. But I certainly wouldn't let my emotions get the better of me. I would proceed and make decisions based upon evidence and facts, not fear and worry. I know, for some it's far easier said than done, but there is no point in taking unnecessary financial losses or incurring expenses when there isn't evidence of wear or a problem.


As a 2305 owner, I'll admit after reading the start of this thread I became very worried. I bought this tractor 11 years ago hoping it would last me the rest of my life. After changing my fluid & filter, cleaning the suction strainer, cleaning the sump and prying/pushing on bull gear I'm a LOT LESS Worried. As sullybear stated, I will continue doing checks on this problem fairly often. 11 years, 250 hours at 72 years old, I don't think I have much to worry about.

I would like to give a BIG THANKS to iamrfixit for bring this problem to our attention with all of his relevant info and pics.:bigthumb:
 
#35 ·
Found a bunch of filings that got through the strainer and went through the hydraulic pump. The outlet of the pump routes to the divider block, there is another strainer inside the inlet port on the divider valve, it's very fine and was made even more fine by the layer of filings that had accumulated. It didn't look like near as much until I started cleaning them out, wish I'd got an after pic. Although it looks flat here, the strainer is actually dome shaped, there was a lot of junk accumulated around it. I laid the case on it's side and raised the bottom up on a block to tip the port downward, then used some brakleen to wash all the filings out. Washed the pump and lines out and didn't find much. The filings are aluminum and VERY small, at this point I'm just going to put it back together and hope it didn't do much harm. Everything hydraulics wise was working even after the last bolts broke. There is no budget to rebuild everything, trying to do so could exceed the value of the machine pretty quick. Already plan to change the oil and filter a second time after getting a few hours of use on it.

One thing leads to another. Just killing time yesterday so figured I'd grease the drive shaft while it's apart and in the process started looking at the wire harness. Pretty sure the pvc water pipe zip tied to everything wasn't a factory solution, so I peeled some tape to find all these butt splices. Likely the result of someone not getting the mower deck PTO shaft locked in place. There's 11 wires and each wire had 3-4 splices. There was also 1-2 on each wire staggered inside the pipe. They were packed with grease and hadn't given problems but I don't like the look of it. They had also routed the harness through the hole with the brake pedal and zip tied to the PS lines, it was rubbing every time the brake was used.

I cut about 3' out to get rid of unnecessary splices and replaced with new wire, solder and shrink tube on each joint. They used all black wires to replace the damaged section, I at least tried to color code. Only so much you can do when they use color striped wires. Taped up the new loom, wrapped with new plastic conduit and secured to the frame. Looks a lot nicer now but forgot the pic. While in there I cleaned out an old mouse nest, tons of leaves and dirt and an old mud dauber nest that had packed the voltage regulator/rectifier cooling fins completely full. Also planning to add a water temp gauge while the dash is out of the way.
 

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#36 ·
iamrfixit, can the divider block strainer be serviced without removing the unit from the tractor?
 
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#38 ·
Yes, you'd have to pull the ROPS, seat and fenders but it's all right on top so should be pretty accessible. I don't know how easily the strainer comes out, I didn't try that. With all the filings it was easier to just roll mine over. You could remove the whole divider block too if you had too. Strainer is J in the pic
 

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#40 ·
Here's the after pics. Not sure what the wiring looked like from the factory but think it's a lot neater now and secured to the frame with coated metal loops.

Had the jack stands under the frame and they were constantly in the way. Was not very stable either, the front wheels kept rolling and sliding the frame back/forth on the jack stands as I tried to pull the transaxle. Even worse, out of habit I grab the steering wheel to stand up, with the pivot point on the front axle along with the narrow frame I've nearly knocked it off the stands several times.

Trying to get the driveshaft out they were really in the way so I moved the stands under the loader brackets and it's WAY more stable now. With a couple more suitcase weights hanging on the front bumper I'm sure I can even hang the transaxle back on without throwing off the balance, kinda wish I hadn't removed the loader. I plan to use the engine hoist when I put the transaxle back in. Took it out with a floor jack, it worked but working alone it was difficult to hold it upright on the jack while trying to pull everything backwards and slip the shafts off. Wired the stands to the loader brackets so hopefully they can't slip off, really doesn't move around like it did before though.
 

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#43 ·
Well, made a deal to buy the tractor, got into it for what they offered him trade in, seemed pretty reasonable. He already owed me some money so that benefits us both. Sent my parts order in last weekend during Green farm parts sale, now just waiting for the parts to arrive. Hoped they'd ship pretty quick but still have no tracking info yet. Local dealer said my parts list would just be a stock order and should only take a couple days but I ordered online trying to save a buck.

Reconsidered on the differential carrier. Had my machinist cut about .005 off the gear side and that left a nice flat mating surface for the gear to bolt up. Cleaned up the other side at about .004. He coated the surfaces with dykem before turning it, the red that's left behind is the low spots. The gear side has one tiny spot left, the side with the bolt heads he cut til it was at least flat around all the bolts. It cleaned up pretty well. After test fitting with the new bolts I think it will be fine. Plan to use some bearing mount between the mating surfaces and high strength loctite on the bolts. I will also be keeping a much closer watch on those bolts and fluid condition. The replacement bolts have 19mm heads instead of 17mm so they cover a little more surface. The important thing is that everything still runs very true and surfaces are flat. Really only a couple holes that are ugly all the way through. Even using all brand new parts the gear would still have slop in the bolt holes.
 

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#44 ·
Have you considered using any material such as JB Weld to fill in the slop in the gear bolt holes. With the larger bolt heads and Locktite, filling the holes should help, I've done this with success in the past.
 
#45 ·
No I hadn't but it might not hurt.

Even in new condition the holes are 13mm and the bolts only 12mm, so obviously they allowed and expected some slop in the fit. Really only have two holes that got enlarged all the way through to the gear side, and even then it's pretty minor. Amazing how much better everything looked after cutting only .005 off. We contemplated making some bushings for at least a couple holes, but they'd have to be pretty thin, difficult to make and maybe install.

The bearing mount bonds strong and there's quite a bit of surface area between the gear and carrier. Think I'll try to clock the gear against the bolts in the forward direction as I torque it down. My plan is to mate the gear with the bearing mount applied, and then torque all the bolts in a star pattern, then remove the bolts one at a time to apply primer and loctite, then re-torque as I go just to be extra sure I get clean surfaces and good coverage with both primer and loctite. Don't know if the thin layer of bearing mount compound will help but don't think it will hurt. It can sure make a slip fit bearing a lot tougher to remove.
 
#46 ·
Iamrfixit,

I was going to ask you if you do this type of work as a side job or if this is your primary occupation but then I saw where you mentioned something about the compressors at the shop where you work so that question was answered. These tractor repairs must be something you work on at home on your own. You certainly have the insight to share the details of such a project.

Personally, I think I would go into the rock shaft control valve with that level of filings in the screen. I would also pull the pump apart and check the inner pump impeller and housing to make sure there is no damage. Also, some of the tractors are known to develop a leak between the assembly and housing which usually originates from the gasket, from my experience, which is number 26 in the following parts illustration.

John Deere Parts Catalog

Also, check the swash plate bushing and seal because of the wear which can cause a weeping leak. I had one which the swash plate bushing from all of the directional change was worn enough to warrant replacement. Same with the front (mid pto ) shaft seal. Since you are in there and have it that far apart, it makes sense to prevent future issues from cropping up......

I also removed the last rear end assembly with a floor jack which was dicey at best, trying to keep it balanced. I put it back in with a Motorcycle lift, the type which lifts the bike under the center section with the parallel frame rails on the jack. Being able to jack the entire assembly up slowly into position sure made the process simpler. Also, since I could balance the assembly better, I decided to install the axles and the housings onto the assembly when I had it on the bench. Originally, I had pulled the axles off to make the unit easier for me to lift manually up to the work table. Since I was going down with the repaired and complete assembly on the motorcycle lift, the axles provided the balance to make setting it down by myself easier.

I don't know what the entire assembly weighs, but as you know, its fairly heavy, especially for one person to pick up and set on the table......

Looks like you have yourself a tractor......Are you going to keep it or get it repaired and sell it?

Nice job on the wiring loom repair. Amazing what some consider a repair verses what we would consider a proper repair.......why do you think they used the PVC tubing, to protect the wiring after repair? Unique way to house the wire.............

I also want to thank you for doing a great job on the covering of this entire matter. You have done a wonderful job with the explanations, the photos the answering of questions and the explanation you have given and the entire project documentation. You have made the entire thread as valuable as possible and an important reference for others. Thank you for doing a great job covering this important topic. It's threads like this which really add value to the GTT site to share such important details. Great job....

We are looking forward to the reassembly of your new machine. Thank you for sharing with the GTT family. :bigthumb:
 
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#47 ·
Thanks for the kind words!

Yes, mostly just do this kind of stuff on the side. I have a really well equipped home shop, I've bought so many tools and so much equipment I hardly have room to work in it anymore. Way too many hobbies in one small shop. I do a lot of car/truck work along with welding repairs and fabrication. I also have a full blown woodworking shop going on in there. Whether wrenching, metal or wood, I enjoy using and owning pro grade equipment and I have a bunch of it. I'm just as often found building something out of wood. Have built furniture, cabinets, sheds, garages, even houses along with tons of remodeling, plumbing and electrical work for myself and others. My landscaper friend always seems to have something for me to do on his trucks, equipment, rental houses or his own home. He also offers a "handyman" service which usually consists of me doing most of his handy work.

My day job is managing a maintenance dept at a chemical plant. My crew and I maintain the large valves and piping, numerous pumps, and several screw and reciprocating compressors. Also some conveyors and packaging equipment in another area of the plant. I've worked as a lead operator at the plant since 1986, about 5 years ago I was promoted to manager of the maintenance dept. Still trying to get completely out of operations, it's proven very difficult to train a replacement.

Going to look at the hydraulic pump, it obviously had filings getting through it. I haven't seen any sign of filings past the screen on the divider valve. The layer that had built up in the banjo bolt and on the screen almost certainly worked to filter even finer particles. The hydraulic drive unit is pretty easy to remove if I had to go into it later, but I may have a look and replace the gasket at least. I've ordered a couple of the other seals as well. Even with a significant amount of aluminum filings in the gearbox there is not much sign of wear. Everything looks really good and the magnets in the screen had almost nothing stuck on them.

I do plan to have the tractor for a while so I want it right. I might trade up later on. Pretty much anything I have is for sale if the right deal comes along. I don't really have a huge need for it but what the heck, got lots of stuff I probably don't need, always depends on who you ask, LOL. I can go get my landscaper friends 1025 or skidsteer pretty much any time I'd need it. My best friend has an even bigger skidsteer along with a mini excavator, telehandler and tractor/loader. Both have big dump trailers, so I can get my hands on equipment if I need it.

I've used a motorcycle jack to drop a heavy gas tank or two over the years but don't own one anymore. The "workbench' I've been using on this project is actually my motorcycle "handy lift" table with the front tire vise removed. I tried to avoid digging my engine hoist out of the shed, but there was just no way. That transaxle unit is too darn heavy and very top heavy, the engine hoist and lift table makes handing it a piece of cake, I'm sure getting it put back in place will be almost simple using the hoist.

Kinda figure if I have any further problems, I know the way back in. That's a lot of the reason I decided to just re-use the differential carrier. I'm pretty certain it will work just fine, a new replacement is $700, that money is better spent elsewhere. I'm not afraid of tearing back into it if I had too, (not saying that I want to!) Wasn't real sure I wanted to tear into it at all in the beginning, but I've gotten pretty familiar with the guts of it now. Only took 4 hours to have it out of the tractor and on the table with the side off, that was without a manual and having never done it. Think I could almost cut that in half knowing how everything comes apart.
 
#49 · (Edited)
I placed the parts order almost 2 weeks ago and it still shows as "processing". I finally get a response to numerous requests for status update, the side cover is backordered, wonder how long that will delay me. I'd really like to get my shop space back!
 
#50 ·
Anyone have any insight on Greenfarmparts.com?

I placed the parts order almost 2 weeks ago and it still shows as "processing". I've called and emailed, went through the chat feature, as well as asked a question on the order status page, I can't even get a response. All I get is an answering machine when I call and no response to any other method. About to call my credit card and report fraud. My local dealer said they could have the parts in 2 days, the small savings is not worth the wait. I was beginning to get frustrated yesterday, I started calling first thing this morning and I'm well past mad on my way to going nuclear now.
This seems to happen with them from time to time for some reason.

They are a subsidiary of Reynolds Farm Equipment. Give them a call and see if they can put you with GFP people - some have had success this way. Info in this link.

Fishers, IN - Corporate Site
 
#51 ·
A box of parts arrived at my house on Monday and I finally got started with reassembly today. Realized I forgot to order a rear cover gasket and PTO valve gasket so got those ordered right away. The differential, pinion shaft and diff lock fork all have to go in together, took a little bit but it went together. Then got the PTO brake piston inserted and lined up with the brake shoe. Installed the pinion drive and range selector shafts and torqued on the front case. Once that was done I could install the PTO brake springs and tighten that up, along with the range selector detent ball and spring. Everything seemed to work as it should so installed the hydraulic pump and hydro drive motor. Then cleaned up and bolted on the axle housings. Pretty much stalled until I get the gaskets.

This afternoon I was cleaning up and discovered one of the alignment pins had stuck in the old cover. With numerous studs along with the other pin I just didn't notice. Was able to pull the axle housing, loosen the cover and get the pin installed with minimal effort. Only problem is now that the whole front case assembled, I can no longer see that the PTO brake piston correctly engaged in the shoe. Pretty sure it's fine but another thing to worry about. Probably take an hour and a half to pull the pump, hydro motor and front case all apart and put it back together again just for a quick look, but that's the only way to see. I'll sleep on it, maybe remove the PTO brake piston again, measure the depth, just take another look at it.

Took a bunch of pics during assembly, then run a borescope up behind the gear to see how well I could see the bolts. You could easily see the bolt heads but you'd need to rotate the differential to see all of them.

I bench tested the high strength loctite on a 1/2 bolt and it's very stout stuff. I cleaned the bolt with brakleen, then applied primer, loctite and threaded the nut about halfway on by hand. Next day I put a 3/4 " wrench on and leaned into it, the bolt turned just slightly then locked up. I pulled about as hard as I could and it would not budge further.
 

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#65 ·
A box of parts arrived at my house on Monday and I finally got started with reassembly today. Realized I forgot to order a rear cover gasket and PTO valve gasket so got those ordered right away. The differential, pinion shaft and diff lock fork all have to go in together, took a little bit but it went together. Then got the PTO brake piston inserted and lined up with the brake shoe. Installed the pinion drive and range selector shafts and torqued on the front case. Once that was done I could install the PTO brake springs and tighten that up, along with the range selector detent ball and spring. Everything seemed to work as it should so installed the hydraulic pump and hydro drive motor. Then cleaned up and bolted on the axle housings. Pretty much stalled until I get the gaskets.

This afternoon I was cleaning up and discovered one of the alignment pins had stuck in the old cover. With numerous studs along with the other pin I just didn't notice. Was able to pull the axle housing, loosen the cover and get the pin installed with minimal effort. Only problem is now that the whole front case assembled, I can no longer see that the PTO brake piston correctly engaged in the shoe. Pretty sure it's fine but another thing to worry about. Probably take an hour and a half to pull the pump, hydro motor and front case all apart and put it back together again just for a quick look, but that's the only way to see. I'll sleep on it, maybe remove the PTO brake piston again, measure the depth, just take another look at it.

Took a bunch of pics during assembly, then run a borescope up behind the gear to see how well I could see the bolts. You could easily see the bolt heads but you'd need to rotate the differential to see all of them.

I bench tested the high strength loctite on a 1/2 bolt and it's very stout stuff. I cleaned the bolt with brakleen, then applied primer, loctite and threaded the nut about halfway on by hand. Next day I put a 3/4 " wrench on and leaned into it, the bolt turned just slightly then locked up. I pulled about as hard as I could and it would not budge further.
Dose the axle housing needs a gasket ? and if it dose what is the part #? that will be helpful thanks
 
#52 ·
Here's the borescope video and a still pic. It's just a cheap $35 camera from amazon, seems to work pretty well. I didn't spend much time on it because the battery was about dead and so was my phone but you can get the idea. This was through the suction screen hole and up behind the differential gear.


 

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#53 ·
I wondered how you were coming on this project. I always just order my parts through my local dealer. The small savings online isn't worth it to me and my dealer will match their (GFP) prices anyway. Plus my dealer often gets parts the next day and sometimes, even later the same day if its in one of their other stores.

You sure have the case and all the parts cleaned up very nicely, you must have a parts washer tank in your shop at home.

You have done a wonderful job documenting this incident and also verifying details such as the ability to inspect the bull gear and the bolts with the inspection scope, which will be very helpful for anyone concerned about their machine.

Looking forward to watching you get this machine back into running condition. Thanks again for taking the time and answering questions and doing an outstanding job documenting the process.
 
#54 ·
Saved about $90 plus the sales tax on a $900 order, went ahead and got a filter pack and a 5 gal bucket of hygard along with the parts. The cover was the biggest problem, as it was backordered with no release date. They found one in Canada and had to change status of the order to "emergency machine down" in order to get it shipped down here. No shipping and no additional freight charge on the order though! I don't mind a few days to save $160 but 2+ weeks is another thing. To do it again I'd probably just order the parts locally. As I was reassembling I was feeling very aware how long this thing has been apart.

Tried hard to keep all the tractor parts organized but stuff gets moved around and other jobs keep coming. Had to replace F350 ball joints in the garage at home and did some steering column bearings in the driveway. Only a few blocks but it's a pain to run between places trying to get all the tools I need. Even for a job I've done many times, hard to remember everything. Speaking of ordering parts, I ordered the ball joint set from Amazon, I've been doing a lot of that lately. The local Oreilly store was $325 for four ball joints, $134 on amazon for the same Moog brand and identical part numbers! Often saving 50%+ over local parts. Struts, shocks, suspension parts, hub assemblies, lots of stuff has really big markups. Just ordered both door lock actuators for my truck, name brand for less than one generic actuator cost over the parts counter.

I do have a parts washer, clean all the removable stuff in it along with using up most of a case of brakleen to clean out the heavy assembly. Thankfully I'd just found a couple cases of CRC on sale for $2.50 a can. Can also get it by the gallon and use it in a pressurized spray can, that works out to about the same as sale price. The local NAPA store is about $6+ for 19oz can but sells the gallon for $30, near sale price without all the cans to discard.
 
#57 ·
Got my missing gasket on Thursday, spent about 20 minutes getting the rear cover on. Since I was using the hoist to lift it, I also attached the hitch/rops support onto the transaxle, then hung the assembly on the frame of the tractor. The engine hoist made it a piece of cake, the whole process of getting it in place an hooking it up took maybe a half hour. I connected up the hydraulic lines, brake, forward/reverse and wiring. Found the power steering return line had a tiny screen crimped in the banjo bolt. The screen was starting to come loose so called it a day and ordered a new bolt first thing Friday morning. Paid freight to get the bolt Saturday morning and installed it. Added the hygard but got called out so I didn't get much done.

Late this morning I fired it up, topped it off, checked for leaks and tested it out. The 3 point lifted and lowered and forward and reverse motion worked fine. I installed the footboard, brake pedal and forward/reverse pedals. Then came the fender deck, Hi/Lo lever, Fwd lever, Pto lever, diff lock lever and seat. Then bolted on the Rops and hooked up the lights. Have some issue with the flashers but the work lights all work fine. The flashers used to work but one of the lights was busted off and hanging by the wires when it came to the shop. I've tested all my new wiring and it's all fine. It's a fuse, diode or flasher issue just haven't narrowed it down yet. Probably shorted something when he smashed the light off, he said he hit a gooseneck trailer with it. Don't really need them but they're on there so I like to have them working. I'll get it found but not a priority right now. Took it for a spin, then loaded it on my trailer and went to pickup the loader and tiller.

Having done it, I'm sure I could drive it in the shop and have the transaxle on the bench in an hour. Took me about 3.5 hours the last time but I had to figure out how everything came apart. As I was reassembling things I kept feeling like I was forgetting something because it went so quickly. Had no parts left over and everything seems to work other than the flashers. Hopefully I'll never need to take it apart again.
 

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#58 ·
Posted on a similar thread but thought I'd start my own and add a few pics. The tractor is a 2008 and belongs to a friend who's a landscaper. Just rolled over 600 hours when the differential came apart and lost rear drive. All ten bolts worked loose, broke off or fell out of the bull gear. When that happens the wheels are completely loose and freewheel. The tractor has only a pinion brake so you have no brakes at all. Luckily he was using front wheel assist along with the tiller and loader or it could have been much worse. He was landscaping a yard at a new house on the edge of a long steep hill.

He bought the tractor in 2016 with 180 hours on it. I serviced the transmission and found some aluminum filings so cleaned it up and changed the oil. After 8-10 hours I drained the oil again, checked the screen and found no filings. Don't know if he had any service done since then, I haven't had it in my shop. He said he had been noticing some noise when he'd road the tractor between jobs, but seemed fine when in the dirt or under load. I found all ten bolts in the bottom of the case, all of them are bent and have the threads chewed up. One bolt was broken off in the gear but I was able to screw the piece out with my fingers, no locktite at all on any of the bolts. The case has some minor damage and the differential carrier has the holes egged out. The side cover is destroyed. The bull gear has some marks on the top edge of the teeth but it will clean up with a file. Have most of the cleanup done just waiting on all the parts to come in.
Posted on a similar thread but thought I'd start my own and add a few pics. The tractor is a 2008 and belongs to a friend who's a landscaper. Just rolled over 600 hours when the differential came apart and lost rear drive. All ten bolts worked loose, broke off or fell out of the bull gear. When that happens the wheels are completely loose and freewheel. The tractor has only a pinion brake so you have no brakes at all. Luckily he was using front wheel assist along with the tiller and loader or it could have been much worse. He was landscaping a yard at a new house on the edge of a long steep hill.

He bought the tractor in 2016 with 180 hours on it. I serviced the transmission and found some aluminum filings so cleaned it up and changed the oil. After 8-10 hours I drained the oil again, checked the screen and found no filings. Don't know if he had any service done since then, I haven't had it in my shop. He said he had been noticing some noise when he'd road the tractor between jobs, but seemed fine when in the dirt or under load. I found all ten bolts in the bottom of the case, all of them are bent and have the threads chewed up. One bolt was broken off in the gear but I was able to screw the piece out with my fingers, no locktite at all on any of the bolts. The case has some minor damage and the differential carrier has the holes egged out. The side cover is destroyed. The bull gear has some marks on the top edge of the teeth but it will clean up with a file. Have most of the cleanup done just waiting on all the parts to come in.
Hi
My 2305 has an issue where the rear wheels will move the tractor on flat ground when there is no resistance. As soon as I add resistance say push bucket loader into pile of dirt the rear wheels just stop turning but you can here the motor trying to turn them. If I engage the rear Differential lock the left side rear wheel will spin and dig like it should but right side still nothing. In four wheel drive front wheels work fine. Is this problem related to the problem you had?
Thanks
 
#59 · (Edited)
No, if you had this problem the rear tires would only free wheel, they won't drive the tractor at all because the main gear is completely detached. I would pull the right side axle assembly or the rear cover first, sounds like you may have a broken axle shaft, maybe a problem with the axle splines or the spider gears inside the differential would be my first thought.

It's been a while but I swear I pulled the right side axle assembly off while the transmission was still in the tractor. I was still trying to confirm the bolts had fell out of the gear. You can kinda get a look at the spider gears inside the differential carrier if you remove the rear cover, see attached pic.

Since the left wheel will grab and dig with the diff lock engaged, almost has to be something to do with the spider gears or right side axle. If the spider gears are the problem then the transmission would have to come out. Getting the differential carrier out of the transmission to work on it requires some major disassembly. Think a broken axle would be pretty obvious as the inner end of the axle would no longer be supported in the differential. I'm thinking broken spider gear, probably one of the gears marked O or P in the diagram.

735726


735728
 
#61 ·
Don’t feel silly at all, we all tend to overlook the obvious, plus who the heck would ever think of that on their own!
 
#62 ·
I had that problem on the Kubota I used to own. The tires had rim guard in which is a little slick. It wouldn’t climb a hill. I took it to the dealer, they said nothing wrong. Brought it home, still would climb a hill. I nosed it up against a tree and it would not spin a back tire but the fronts would. I finally leaned out and looked down and sure enough the rim was spinning in the tire. Added air, no problem.
 
#63 ·
LOL! That's great, can't beat an easy fix. Didn't even think about that, I've heard about that happening before but have never actually seen it. Having tried to dismount tires by hand it's hard to believe, but it does happen.
 
#64 ·
I had the same problem! My 2305 was sold to me by the dealer "for parts" because they said the last owner vandalized the tractor because he could not pay anymore. There was a hole in the bottom of the transmission under where the differential sits.
I brought the tractor home made a plug and filled the transmission. I could not drive in fwd or reverse, no brake nothing.
So I opened the gearbox rear panel and I could see the ring gear was free to rotate on the differential.
I took the tractor appart and found that the ten bolts holding the ring gear (bull gear) where in the bottom of the case and that is what caused the hole and other damages.
I pluged and repaired the hole, change the differential case and bolts.
I did this in 2012 and I am still runing it right now. My tractor is a 20008.
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