[hilsenteger]

Well, if it weren't for bad luck....lol

So, today I finally got to draining and refilling the rad on my 1967 3020 gas. Drained, refilled with soft water, and then decided I should take the thermostat out before refilling and draining again. Problem is, once I got the bolts on the cover loosened up, I didn't realize that I had to take off the steel bypass hose that goes from the thermostat cover to the water pump in order to lift the thermostat cover off the housing and remove the old t-stat.

So, this piece (water pump bypass) connects at the t-stat cover:

...and follows to this piece that connects to the water pump:

So, seeing this, and not sure how to take these bad boys off, I thought I'd reconnect t-stat housing and use the currently functioning t-stat, although I was nervous because I'd already "broken the seal" and was worried I'd have a leak because I didn't put a new gasket in.

When I refilled it with water and started the tractor, predictably, I saw a small leak. Instinctively, I grabbed the wrench and tightened up the bolts on the cover - and, of course, I overtightened one of them too much and stripped the threads in the housing! This is the bolt that I overtightened:

So, now I'll have to start over and do this work properly.

First things first - I need a replacement t-stat housing to attach the tstat cover to. I'll start with JDparts. Anyone have experience with the non-stock replacement parts? Any fit issues? New bolts too?

Second, does anyone know how much to torque the bolts for the housing to the engine, and for the t-stat cover to the housing? My service manual doesn't say.

Also, when replacing the tstat housing to the engine, and putting the new t-stat in, can I just use the supplied gaskets for both, or do I need to use gasket maker too?

I've also searched through my service manual and it doesn't show water pump bypass pipe connections like I have, so I'm not sure how to proceed. Do I loosen the fitting at the water pump? That seems to be the only place where I can remove that connection. I'll need to get a larger wrench to get at that if that's it. I can't see how to remove that pipe/fitting at the t-stat cover until I get the fitting at the water pump off. Too bad the manual doesn't mention any of that! And, when I reconnect the fitting at the water pump, would I need to use thread tape to prevent leaking?

So far, the stuff draining out of the rad hasn't been too bad - no large chunks or anything like that. The last fill/drain was getting pretty clear, so once I replace these parts and replace my block heater, hopefully it'll be ready to fill with Cool Guard II and be ready for the winter!

I got my alternator on Friday, but only so many hours in the day - that will have to be the next issue to tackle. Winter is a coming, and slowly but surely, it seems like I'm replacing more parts on this tractor than I had originally anticipated! I just noticed that I have a hydraulic fluid leak in the back of the tractor that I haven't seen before that I'll have to look at as well.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Have a great week!

Grant

 

[hilsenteger]

Been reading a bit more about this and read that the water pump bypass tube has an o-ring on it, and that sits in the fitting. Is that right? So then, how do you disconnect that pipe to get the thermostat housing up to replace the thermostat?

 

[hilsenteger]

Hmmm...did I stump everyone? haha

I don't quite understand how this works, but I'm wondering if the metal tube, that attaches to the fittings at the water pump and at the t-stat cover, goes in, where the fitting is kind of like a compression fitting, where when you tighten it compresses around the o-ring at the tube end, creating a seal. If that's the case, I'm concerned about loosening that fitting at the water pump to loosen the pipe. I don't want to wreck the water pump. I also don't want to run the risk of twisting that tube at either end, since I have no idea when the last time they came off.

Can I cut between the straight pieces of metal tube so that I can remove the t-stat cover, and then replace the metal piece with rubber heater hose and clamps? (I tried to draw a pic below to show what I'm thinking). Would this work?

Am I making this too complicated? A larger concern - am I talking to myself? If I fall in the forest, will anyone hear me? hahaha

 

[hosspuller]

You're not talking to yourself... Following your job. But 1967 is pre historic in my experience.

On my 1996 5200, there's a bare metal tube that's inserted in the t-stat housing. Only a pressed in rubber seal on the housing keeps the coolant in.

 

[hilsenteger]

Morning HP - thanks for the response - sounds similar to what I'm looking at - to remove that pipe to get access to the thermostat, do you just pull/push the pipe out?

 

[Tx Jim]

Removing thermostat housing to R&R thermostat looks fairly easy & straight forward, Disconnect nut in WP on pipe then with thermostat housing bolts removed the remove assembly dismantle pipe from inside nut & thermostat housing R&R O-rings & stat then reassemble. Easy Peasy for an old codger such as I that served as a JD dealer service manager from '75-'87!

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/76112/referrer/navigation/pgId/106653

 

[hilsenteger]

Removing thermostat housing to R&R thermostat looks fairly easy & straight forward, Disconnect nut in WP on pipe then with thermostat housing bolts removed the remove assembly dismantle pipe from inside nut & thermostat housing R&R O-rings & stat then reassemble. Easy Peasy for an old codger such as I that served as a JD dealer service manager from '75-'87!

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/76112/referrer/navigation/pgId/106653

Haha - thanks Jim - I'm slowly moving towards "old codger" status, but not quite there yet!

OK, so a couple of quick questions from the young codger who doesn't do this very often:

• will that nut on the WP come off relatively easy? Will I need heat? Does it need thread tape on reassemble? What should I be torquing those nuts to?
• do those fitting nuts act like compression fittings?
• a buddy told me to use an insert (heliocoil?) to fix my stripped threads in the tstat housing - I was thinking to pick up a new part to avoid that - thoughts?
• suggestions on sealant to use with the gasket and technique? I was thinking to use a thin layer of Permatex gasket sealant on both the housing and cover surfaces, add the gasket, finger tighten, leave for an hour or so, and then torque up - (15lbs?) - then leave overnight before refilling and checking for leaks.

Really appreciate the help!

Grant

 

[Tx Jim]

No compression nut just o-ring sealing against a clean pipe(tube). I doubt nut for tube will require heat but I've been wrong before(divorced). Teflon tape or liquid thread sealer is fine. Thermostat housing retaining bolts @ 35ft #s if grade 5 bolts are utilized Heli-coil installed correctly is a very good choice for repairing stripped threads

 

[hosspuller]

Inserting tube into seal ... Make sure tube is clean. No burr on end to cut seal. Use a bit of coolant to lube tube before inserting. Mine doesn't leak.

 

[hilsenteger]

No compression nut just o-ring sealing against a clean pipe(tube). I doubt nut for tube will require heat but I've been wrong before(divorced). Teflon tape or liquid thread sealer is fine. Thermostat housing retaining bolts @ 35ft #s if grade 5 bolts are utilized Heli-coil installed correctly is a very good choice for repairing stripped threads

No compression nut just o-ring sealing against a clean pipe(tube). I doubt nut for tube will require heat but I've been wrong before(divorced). Teflon tape or liquid thread sealer is fine. Thermostat housing retaining bolts @ 35ft #s if grade 5 bolts are utilized Heli-coil installed correctly is a very good choice for repairing stripped threads

Again, thanks Jim. Just to be clear, 35ft/lbs for the thermostat cover bolts into the housing, or for the housing to the head? I was thinking about cover to housing connection, but I guess I'd need housing to head torque value too. I have no basis for this, but that seems high to me - for some reason I was thinking around 15ft/lbs. But, you obviously have more experience than I do!

 

[hilsenteger]

Inserting tube into seal ... Make sure tube is clean. No burr on end to cut seal. Use a bit of coolant to lube tube before inserting. Mine doesn't leak.

Thanks!

Does the tube go past the o-ring? Do you put the o-ring on the pipe first, then insert? Sorry, I'm just not getting the visual - I guess I'll see it when I do it.

 

[Tx Jim]

O-ring fits inside the nut & then tube slides into o-ring. I read the torque for thermostat housing bolt from a chart from JD 3000 series tech manual. There's a wealth of information contained within a JD 3000 series tech manual

 

[flyweight]

For a better understanding and your viewing pleasure, I present this cut-away view of the fitting, o-ring and tube.

The tube is a "Slip Fit".

 

[hilsenteger]

O-ring fits inside the nut & then tube slides into o-ring. I read the torque for thermostat housing bolt from a chart from JD 3000 series tech manual. There's a wealth of information contained within a JD 3000 series tech manual

For a better understanding and your viewing pleasure, I present this cut-away view of the fitting, o-ring and tube.


View attachment 805218

The tube is a "Slip Fit".

Hey there - thanks for that - I am a visual guy, and that's really helpful.

So, do I even need to take the fitting off from the water pump, or will that tube just come out with some gentle coaxing/pulling?

 

[hilsenteger]

O-ring fits inside the nut & then tube slides into o-ring. I read the torque for thermostat housing bolt from a chart from JD 3000 series tech manual. There's a wealth of information contained within a JD 3000 series tech manual

Thanks yet again!

I do have a huge service manual in a binder for the 3020 that I've been using - it's got to be around 700 pages, but in the section on the water pump and thermostat, I couldn't find a spec for tightening the bolts after replacing the tstat. I looked up the one you mention and it says it's SM-2038. I'll check what mine's called when I get home tonight. I might need to order another manual.

 

[Tx Jim]

Hardware torque values in my TM are in a chart shown by bolt diameter & grade.

 

[flyweight]

Once the thermostat manifold retaining bolts are removed, tap under the tubes as you’re lifting it. The tubes should slip out.

Note: If stuck, spray a bit of penetrating oil at the base of the tubes. Let sit for a while, then try removing.
About 2 beers time will do.👍

 

[hilsenteger]

Once the thermostat manifold retaining bolts are removed, tap under the tubes as you’re lifting it. The tubes should slip out.

Note: If stuck, spray a bit of penetrating oil at the base of the tubes. Let sit for a while, then try removing.
About 2 beers time will do.👍

Hahaha - Now that's the kind of information I need and understand - I'll buy your manual!! Thanks - I'll give that a go this weekend.

 

[Tx Jim]

About 2 beers time will do.👍

Time required to wait for lubricant to do it magic determined by # of beers would be determined on length of time required to consume "2 beers" which can vary drastically between different beer drinkers!! This is an observation from a former avid beer drinker!!!

 

[hilsenteger]

Just a quick update: I've got the t-stat housing bolts off, I've wiggled the rubber hose off the housing, and that's as far as I can get. I've sprayed penetrating fluid, I've tried tapping under the pipe, I've tried leverage, and I've tried turning the fitting attached to the water pump with my crescent wrench (that thing is on there!). Nothing so far. Maybe I didn't follow the instructions and I'm not drinking enough beer!!

I can move the tstat housing side to side, as far as the tstat will let me, and the metal hose in that fitting is moving around no problem, but it will not move upward. I'm a little concerned about hitting the pipe too hard underneath to get it to lift - I don't want to damage the water pump.

Starting to think I should have left the old tstat in there and just drained the fluid and refilled! I'm also looking at my reciprocating saw - cut that pipe, and then use a piece of rubber hose and clamps when reassembling. Seems like a simpler solution.