I cannot help but notice there only seems to be a difference with fuel injectors between 3025e and 3032e. Same engine, same compression, pretty much the same RPM... this has got to be tunable via an ECU/air box upgrade. I am not an engine mechanic but I have worked on aircraft for 16 years and this is killing my brain!
3025e HP increase
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I’d say it’s more than a simple thing, the 32hp is going to have DPF and the associated electronics to control it. You wouldn’t need that to increase the power of your 25 hp machine but you woukd have to know what you were doing with the injectors and the pump to do it correctly.
I wouldn’t think that the emissions would increase the HP. I believe the 25hp version is just tuned down with fuel/air mix.
Yeah, on the specs list on John Deere website, the 3025e says direct injection and the 3032e says high pressure rail injection. I wonder if the injectors and ecu could be swapped. If it has an ecu, I am used to tinkering with motorcycles.
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Typically direct injection is common rail. (Not always but more often than not.). So could be the same injectors just controlled differently for more HP. As others have said the 32 HP version would require emissions which would also necessitate that fuel system be ECU controlled to monitor DPF and perfrom regens.
Jeff.
Yeah, it actually says, high pressure common rail direct injection. The emissions and dpf are added systems. People remove regen systems all the time. Maybe the injectors are the same. I will continue to research. I know that I am the one asking the question, I will go ahead and say now, that regen and dpf would not give this tractor more power. I am just saying that you should be able to reprogram this tractor to have the same power since the engines are 100% identical. You could delete regen and dpf if you had the tools, but reprogramming a 3025e to squirt more fuel may be far easier.
p.s. I apologize, but I am coming from street bikes. We reprogram these bad boys all day for more power, and delete emissions. You just have to find someone with a dyno or ecu program. Probably nobody is doing this for tractors...
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I know this. I just mentioned it because without emissions the engine could still be mechanical injection, but with it it MUST be ECU controlled.
Jeff
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The problem is programmers are common for things like pickups, cars and bikes, but as far as I know not so much with tractors. If your 3025e is common rail it would be easy to turn up with the needed programming. I believe my 2025r is indirect injection and mechanical.
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For what you would spend to do this it would probably cost more than just buying the 3032E. I would have no problem with the emissions equipment. In fact, I DON'T have a problem with the emissions, as it is on my 3046R. Also I would not want to risk voiding my 6YR 2000 hour powertrain warranty.
Jeff
Jeff
The emissions particulate filter and DEF do not contribute ANYTHING to power and in fact along with the maps in the ECU which detune the engine slightly to take some away.
Odds are the same pump is used for all the 3 series tractors and it just holds head pressure in the common rail and the different size injectors use what they need.
The injectors MIGHT be different but it might also just be JD using the same part but with two different PN for inventory control purposes (actually very common in the automotive industry). Some fuel increase can be done by modifying the pulse of the injector to a longer duration in the ECU mapping.
If the injectors are actually are different flow rates / volumes then changing the injectors to a larger size would also require changing the fuel/air maps in the ECU or swapping in a 303X ECU with the right maps. Note that with a swap you still might have to go into the ECU to disable the sensor inputs for the DEF tank level and injection controls because not having them would make the system think it was empty and there might be an engine disable code in that case.
I run a racecar (racecar are spelled backwards is racecar because racecar) with supercharger and have to modify the maps any time I change a parameter like fuel volume (changing pulse timing or duration or different volume injector) or boost pressure (or variable valve timing) .. Each manufacturer uses proprietary software coding for their ECU and SOMEONE has to break their protection first to be able to retune that manufacturer's ECU. Who knows whether Yanmar or JD is actually programming the ECU?
It's JD corporate policy that they don't want 'right to repair' and want all servicing done by their dealers which is pissing off farmers across the nation who want to be able to do repairs on their own equipment. So it's probable that JD has built in especially hard security into the software in their ECU's.
So there are ECUs out there that no one has ever decoded because it wasn't worth the effort. A performance car's ECU will be done, an economy car's isn't likely as there's little market/demand! I'd bet that JD's ECU's on the 3 series haven't been as it's a major software analysis to do it and there's not enough business from the low numbers of owners who'd want to retune their tractors to justify it. Perhaps a JD compact tractor owner who's already working in the performance industry might take it on as a personal task and share it. Of course the EPA is cracking down on the entire performance industry since the *edit
It cost me over $600 for the software to go into my cars ECU and that's only for that make and model of car, no others. I have spent a LOT of time, trouble and $$$$$ KEEPING all the emissions control equipment and emissions levels legal on my car (it does pass the yearly emissions inspection, even with twice the HP over stock but doing so would be uneconomical for mass production which is why it doesn't happen)
I'd LOVE to upgrade my 3025 but it's probably not practical or a simple parts swap due to the ECU issues.
On a final note, before I retrained/switched to Aircraft mechanic and gas turbine engines, I worked on marine diesels for a couple of decades and have changed many an injector and adjusted the governors to match but those were not ECU controlled diesels.
Odds are the same pump is used for all the 3 series tractors and it just holds head pressure in the common rail and the different size injectors use what they need.
The injectors MIGHT be different but it might also just be JD using the same part but with two different PN for inventory control purposes (actually very common in the automotive industry). Some fuel increase can be done by modifying the pulse of the injector to a longer duration in the ECU mapping.
If the injectors are actually are different flow rates / volumes then changing the injectors to a larger size would also require changing the fuel/air maps in the ECU or swapping in a 303X ECU with the right maps. Note that with a swap you still might have to go into the ECU to disable the sensor inputs for the DEF tank level and injection controls because not having them would make the system think it was empty and there might be an engine disable code in that case.
I run a racecar (racecar are spelled backwards is racecar because racecar) with supercharger and have to modify the maps any time I change a parameter like fuel volume (changing pulse timing or duration or different volume injector) or boost pressure (or variable valve timing) .. Each manufacturer uses proprietary software coding for their ECU and SOMEONE has to break their protection first to be able to retune that manufacturer's ECU. Who knows whether Yanmar or JD is actually programming the ECU?
It's JD corporate policy that they don't want 'right to repair' and want all servicing done by their dealers which is pissing off farmers across the nation who want to be able to do repairs on their own equipment. So it's probable that JD has built in especially hard security into the software in their ECU's.
So there are ECUs out there that no one has ever decoded because it wasn't worth the effort. A performance car's ECU will be done, an economy car's isn't likely as there's little market/demand! I'd bet that JD's ECU's on the 3 series haven't been as it's a major software analysis to do it and there's not enough business from the low numbers of owners who'd want to retune their tractors to justify it. Perhaps a JD compact tractor owner who's already working in the performance industry might take it on as a personal task and share it. Of course the EPA is cracking down on the entire performance industry since the *edit
It cost me over $600 for the software to go into my cars ECU and that's only for that make and model of car, no others. I have spent a LOT of time, trouble and $$$$$ KEEPING all the emissions control equipment and emissions levels legal on my car (it does pass the yearly emissions inspection, even with twice the HP over stock but doing so would be uneconomical for mass production which is why it doesn't happen)
I'd LOVE to upgrade my 3025 but it's probably not practical or a simple parts swap due to the ECU issues.
On a final note, before I retrained/switched to Aircraft mechanic and gas turbine engines, I worked on marine diesels for a couple of decades and have changed many an injector and adjusted the governors to match but those were not ECU controlled diesels.
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Any pictures of what was involved with the installation?
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I didn't take any pictures. I know I should have. Just raise the FEL up all the way to get arms out of the way then open the hood, remove the top side panel on right side which is 2 turn buttons no tools required. The remove the lower side panel which is help on with 2 3/8" head shoulder bolts. Then simply unplug
wire from fuel pump plug module into fuel pump the plug fuel pump wire into module. Pretty easy really.
Seems almost too good to be true... but bumping the 3025e up to 32.5 HP for $1K isn't a bad proposition. Easy removal for warranty work too...
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I am running a 72" finish mower to cut some pastures that was bogging down tractor pretty easily, PTO RPM would go to 510 and belts on mower would squeal.. After I installed this I never did bog the tractor but I could make the belts squeal on mower. Now my forward speed is determined by mower not the tractor.
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