Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I went up to our VT home on Saturday morning and drove right up the driveway without any issue at all. There are a lot of leaves under the snow that came down right before the first snow storm so I didn’t have the opportunity to blow them off before they got covered. Exactly what I was trying to prevent. Oh-well.

I brought up a new battery and other stuff to try to get my 1983 420 tractor up and running again. After an hour of taking off all the engine covers, removing the battery and battery tray, I was able to check all the fuses and electrical connections. I found no smoking guns there. So I reinstalled the battery tray and put in the new battery. It started right up. I suspect that the battery had gone bad. Unfortunately, the new battery was slightly too big and didn’t fit the tractor correctly, so I have to trade it in for a smaller one, but at least I know that the tractor starts. And I confirmed that all the front hydraulics work fine.

But I needed to plow so I jury rigged it in place, and proceeded to put on the new rear tire chains. Once that was done I successfully plowed.
First 420 Plow.jpg
Well, almost. As I was cleaning up the large piles at the foot of the driveway, the tractor started feeling weird and started leaning to the right. I stopped, got off and looked things over without seeing anything wrong. So I got back on and started back up again only to barely be able to move and the right tire chain came off. Huh? I looked down and then saw the problem. I had a right rear flat tire! Great. If it’s not one thing, it’s another.
Flat.jpg

So, I need new rear tires. I'm not surprised that the current ones didn't last. They look old, dried out and starting to crack.

I want to replace them with Carlisle All Trails but they appear taller than the turfs I'm currently running so I don't know the best size for the 420. I also will need chains for my steep driveway, so I need to figure out the corresponding size for them.

Anybody have experience or guidance for me?

Thankyou, Steve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,484 Posts
I went up to our VT home on Saturday morning and drove right up the driveway without any issue at all. There are a lot of leaves under the snow that came down right before the first snow storm so I didn’t have the opportunity to blow them off before they got covered. Exactly what I was trying to prevent. Oh-well.

I brought up a new battery and other stuff to try to get my 1983 420 tractor up and running again. After an hour of taking off all the engine covers, removing the battery and battery tray, I was able to check all the fuses and electrical connections. I found no smoking guns there. So I reinstalled the battery tray and put in the new battery. It started right up. I suspect that the battery had gone bad. Unfortunately, the new battery was slightly too big and didn’t fit the tractor correctly, so I have to trade it in for a smaller one, but at least I know that the tractor starts. And I confirmed that all the front hydraulics work fine.

But I needed to plow so I jury rigged it in place, and proceeded to put on the new rear tire chains. Once that was done I successfully plowed.
View attachment 660050
Well, almost. As I was cleaning up the large piles at the foot of the driveway, the tractor started feeling weird and started leaning to the right. I stopped, got off and looked things over without seeing anything wrong. So I got back on and started back up again only to barely be able to move and the right tire chain came off. Huh? I looked down and then saw the problem. I had a right rear flat tire! Great. If it’s not one thing, it’s another.
View attachment 660052

So, I need new rear tires. I'm not surprised that the current ones didn't last. They look old, dried out and starting to crack.

I want to replace them with Carlisle All Trails but they appear taller than the turfs I'm currently running so I don't know the best size for the 420. I also will need chains for my steep driveway, so I need to figure out the corresponding size for them.

Anybody have experience or guidance for me?

Thankyou, Steve.
That's a nice looking old 420. I purchased a 430 new in 1986. Good tractors! Do you mow with It? If not, I would consider Carlisle lug tires (26 x12 x 12). Had them on mine, and didn't even need chains. Actually, except when the ground was extremely wet, they didn't harm the lawn. I nicknamed my 430 "The Beast" because you just couldn't hardly stop it. It had been in the family for 32 years. My son just sold it a couple months ago. Hated to see it go.

BTW: This is a very recent picture in unrestored condition.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: JKR

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That's a nice machine. I dont think I want AG tires though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,889 Posts
I have ag’s on my 420/loader. They are horrible ion snow and ice even with plenty of ballast.

You needs 26/12/12 tires. 1” of height difference if there is one shouldn’t cause problems.

Would a tube solve your issue or is the tire bad?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
420 tires

I have ag’s on my 420/loader. They are horrible ion snow and ice even with plenty of ballast.

You needs 26/12/12 tires. 1” of height difference if there is one shouldn’t cause problems.

Would a tube solve your issue or is the tire bad?
The current turf savers are old and cracking, so I want to replace both of them to prevent any further issues.

In looking at the Data Sheet website, I see that turf tires use 26/12/12 and AG tires use 23/10.5/12. That's why I'm not sure which size to order. I don't even see the All Trails listed in 26/12/12 in the Carlisle catalog, but I do see them for sale from multiple sources. Left overs?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,919 Posts
Well here has been what I have slowly been replacing My rear Tires with on My Garden tractors 26x12.00-12 Kenda Terra Trac Garden Tractor Tire I like them Better than the Carlisle for 1 reason there 4PLY. So I either use the Kendra or I Use AG tires Tire's. Any thing Pre 1992 gets Ag's any thing Later gets Kendra's The HDAP style really does do will In the snow with out chains and works Pretty good In the dirt. That said I have used AG tires Predominately In the winter for the Last 30 years On Most of My Tractors Specifically My Main snow removal Tractors a New 1988 JD240, 1994 JD425 (Bought in 2000) and a New 2003 JDX485. Not Until the Purchase of a Used X748 In 2014 did I go to the HDAP style tire. Because I was dead set against them for winter use Because the AG tires did so well But either would Be good for Your 420 and You won't need chains But I suggest running Ballast of some Kind. I normally run 4 to 6 suitcase weights depending on tractor and this year I started using 72lb cast Iron wheel weights as well On the X748 and it Probably doesn't need it. But I also use a GX335 with HDAP style tires & wheel weights and 4 Suitcase weights. Haven't suffered any real wheel slippage with the HDAP style Kendra's In either 26X12 or 23X10:bigthumb:
 
  • Like
Reactions: VTx394

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,889 Posts
The current turf savers are old and cracking, so I want to replace both of them to prevent any further issues.

In looking at the Data Sheet website, I see that turf tires use 26/12/12 and AG tires use 23/10.5/12. That's why I'm not sure which size to order. I don't even see the All Trails listed in 26/12/12 in the Carlisle catalog, but I do see them for sale from multiple sources. Left overs?
26-12-12.

Wherever you looked is wrong. 23-10.5-12 are 300 series tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
The 26-12.00-12 is a big tire, but fits on the 300 series well if you are not concerned abut clearing a mower deck. Actual diameters vary by manufacturer, so you may find some that clear and some that don't. Here is a picture of my two 322 tractors with each size in use -- the larger rears with 18-8.50-10 fronts in the turf tread pattern had issues with clearing the deck when lifted all the way up. Obviously it worked to my advantage when using the center grading blade however...

non-identical twins 1.jpg

Chuck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,919 Posts
26-12-12.

Wherever you looked is wrong. 23-10.5-12 are 300 series tires.
Ditto
AG tires are 26x12.00-12 for the 420 & 430 always Have been


I wonder if he is Looking at something to do with the 425 thru 455

When the 425 thru 455 were Introduced the first year Both 2Wheel steer and All Wheel Steer all had 23x10.50-12 for turf or AG.

Starting in 1993 the 445 & 455 2 wheel steer had had 26x12.00-12 for either Turf or AG and the 425 2 Wheel steer stayed with 23x10.50-12 for turf or AG while the AWS version of the 425, 445 & 455 had 23x10.50-12 turf or AG

Now the GX300 series for 2004 & 2005 Used 24x12.00-12 Turfs and 23x10.50-12 AG tires same Goes for the X500 series Turf or HDAP were 24x12-12 & AG was 23x10.50-12 for that series except All wheel steer Models On the X500 series

:bigthumb:
 
  • Like
Reactions: VTx394

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,109 Posts
Whatever tire type you decide upon, I'd echo Sergeant suggestion and get at least a 4-ply. My 455s came with 2-ply turf tires. Nothing wrong with the turf tread, it served me well for both mowing and snow blowing. My issue was they were 2-ply. It wasn't that I required more weight carrying capacity, which is the typical reason for moving to a greater ply count. My issue was the low inflation pressure of the 2-ply, 10 psi. If I was doing any kind of pushing or pulling with it, the rim would slip on the tire bead and I'd have a flat the next day. Tubes didn't help, as it would tear the valve stem.

I found the same exact Carlisle turf tread tire, except in a 6-ply. I could inflate it to 35 psi. I never had a flat after that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,889 Posts
The 26-12.00-12 is a big tire, but fits on the 300 series well if you are not concerned abut clearing a mower deck. Actual diameters vary by manufacturer, so you may find some that clear and some that don't. Here is a picture of my two 322 tractors with each size in use -- the larger rears with 18-8.50-10 fronts in the turf tread pattern had issues with clearing the deck when lifted all the way up. Obviously it worked to my advantage when using the center grading blade however...

View attachment 660312

Chuck
Those 322s always make me smile.

Whatever tire type you decide upon, I'd echo Sergeant suggestion and get at least a 4-ply. My 455s came with 2-ply turf tires. Nothing wrong with the turf tread, it served me well for both mowing and snow blowing. My issue was they were 2-ply. It wasn't that I required more weight carrying capacity, which is the typical reason for moving to a greater ply count. My issue was the low inflation pressure of the 2-ply, 10 psi. If I was doing any kind of pushing or pulling with it, the rim would slip on the tire bead and I'd have a flat the next day. Tubes didn't help, as it would tear the valve stem.

I found the same exact Carlisle turf tread tire, except in a 6-ply. I could inflate it to 35 psi. I never had a flat after that.
That’s surprising. I don’t think I’ve ever had a rear tire up to 10psi. Mine are all at 6-8 right now. Freshly checked.

What lube did you use mounting them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,109 Posts
Those 322s always make me smile.



That’s surprising. I don’t think I’ve ever had a rear tire up to 10psi. Mine are all at 6-8 right now. Freshly checked.

What lube did you use mounting them?
A rich mixture of dishwashing soap & water applied with a flux brush.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
plys

Whatever tire type you decide upon, I'd echo Sergeant suggestion and get at least a 4-ply. My 455s came with 2-ply turf tires. Nothing wrong with the turf tread, it served me well for both mowing and snow blowing. My issue was they were 2-ply. It wasn't that I required more weight carrying capacity, which is the typical reason for moving to a greater ply count. My issue was the low inflation pressure of the 2-ply, 10 psi. If I was doing any kind of pushing or pulling with it, the rim would slip on the tire bead and I'd have a flat the next day. Tubes didn't help, as it would tear the valve stem.

I found the same exact Carlisle turf tread tire, except in a 6-ply. I could inflate it to 35 psi. I never had a flat after that.
Thank you for this. I was wondering what would be best in this regard also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Update 12-11-18

After thinking about it for a bit, I decided to go with Kenda-terra-trac-4-ply in 26x12-12 size. i got them installed yesterday and will be picking them up after work tonight.

Meanwhile, back at the garage...

I decided to strip it down, clean it up and replace a few parts to make sure that it starts reliably. I replaced the ignition switch. I bought and will be installing a starter improvement kit (once I figure out how to do it). I'll do an oil change. I'm going to take off the rear seat pan to clean off the transmission and trans-axle. And am waiting on the parts I need to do a brake job on both rear wheels. All the springs on the left brakes were broken so new ones are on order. I wanted to put on new brake shoes, but after seeing that they want almost $50 per shoe (!!!!!!) I decided to make due with my current ones.

A few pictures...

Stripped Front.jpg

Right Front.jpg

Motor top Right.jpg

Rear Tear down.jpg

LR Brake Pieces.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The starter improvement kit should have detailed installation instructions included with it -- but just in case here is a PDF copy of it...there are some 420-specific steps shown in the second column on page 4.

View attachment 661642

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I did get those, but the ones I got are so dark I can't see anything in the pictures. This set you attached are better, but still not very good. Pictures 8 and 9 are the ones that I can't figure out. If anybody had good pictures of what they did in those sections it sure would be helpful.

Steve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
Take your time and carefully follow the written instruction steps and you should not need any of the pictures except the simple wiring diagram on page 8. Many members here and on WFM have made successful starter improvement relay installations using off the shelf relays and no kit whatsoever...just that last schematic.

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
I just looked over the wiring diagram and it appears they have shutdown protection if either your butt comes off the seat when the PTO is engaged. or if it's in a drive position with your butt off the seat. So I was thinking the start protection really isn't needed because all though you would be able to crank it, it would not start. So I was thinking all that would be needed to improve the start function would be a starter button eliminating the safety loop, wire it directly from "+" to the purple start wire on the solenoid.

any thoughts? Oh, mine has an intermittent start as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,570 Posts
Eric,

A very strong benefit of keeping your tractor at factory configuration, particularly as it regards the wiring harness, is that it makes it much easier for members of these boards to help diagnose and assist in solving any issues you may be having. If it is highly customized, this makes finding an owner 'improvement' much harder to factor into any troubleshooting we may need to do in these threads -- particularly if the present owner is not the one that originally did the hack.

Look carefully at the wiring diagram of the ignition control and its TDCM input -- there are two separate paths by which the spark is disabled. The one you mention is via the delay timer on the seat switch which is active when the tractor is in motion (ground speed lever not in the neutral slot...) OR if the PTO switch(es) is/are not in the OFF position OR the parking brake not set in later year models. The other 'delay bypass' is driven by the starter interlock circuits, present at pin 7 of the TDCM connector (see the note about wire 710 at the ignition switch terminal S2) that provides the state of the PTO switches, brake switch Neutral switch. If the starter "safety loop" as you call it is not functioning properly, there will be no spark independent of the operator presence being sensed at the seat switch...the Theory of Operation included as my third attachment below is a clear description of this.

ignition diagram 318.JPG

318 Starting circuit.JPG

View attachment 318 ignition theory of operation.pdf

Chuck
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top