Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My 4230 has started to smoke a lot out of the crankcase vent. It always has smoked but it is getting worse.
The last time I used it I spent about 12 hours planting 40 acres of millet.
Everything seemed normal and I shut off the tractor.
2 days later I went out and started it and it ran for 30 seconds or so, died and hasn't started since. I noticed that the fuel gage read near to empty and I wasn't getting the normal exhaust so I added fuel and also bled 3 of the injector lines.
No luck, not even with starting fluid.

any ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Despite what most people think, if you are not getting some diesel fuel to the cylinders, it will not hit with starting fluid. It has to have either diesel fuel or enough oil in the cylinders to build enough compression to hit on. Are you getting fuel to the pump?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Crack the lines at the injectors really well and crank the engine. Fuel should come out fairly descent. If not, check/replace filters, check fuel pump for fuel delivery and pressure if you have a gauge. You probably have a Rousa Master injection pump
and are known to me, three times, that the plastic attachment piece for the governor will fail, plastic pieces will clog up stuff and then disable the function of the injection pump. There is no way to repair the injection pump yourself, which is easy to do, but get another one at a repair shop and install it yourself. I remember there is a check valve on the fuel line at the injection pump, coming from the fuel pump, that has failed before on my 4240. Talk to your dealer, they usually have good suggestions and are very helpful. I've had to replace the pumps on a 4240, 3020 and a 2280 swather.

These are the checks that I usually perform in troubleshooting. Everybody else reading this, please give construct criticism, if I should of done something different. All I know, it always worked for me.

Good Luck and let us know your progress! :thumbup1gif:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,090 Posts
Despite what most people think, if you are not getting some diesel fuel to the cylinders, it will not hit with starting fluid. It has to have either diesel fuel or enough oil in the cylinders to build enough compression to hit on. Are you getting fuel to the pump?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
May I ask why you think a diesel engine won't fire when ether is sprayed into air intake? A good diesel engine will have compression without adding fuel or oil to combustion chamber. Evidently you've never witnessed or checked compression pressure with a gauge. Let me state that I dislike using ether as a diesel engine starting aid & only use it as a last resort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,090 Posts
Ditto what raco232 stated about clogged check valve on fuel return line fitting on IP. Loosen the 2 screws on timing window,pry gasket loose from IP housing and attempt to start engine. On subject of blow-by have you checked condition of engine oil? It's possible oil is contaminated with coolant from liner cavitation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I have seen many people try to start a Diesel engine with ether and the engines weren't getting and fuel from the injection pump and they will not hit on just ether. The part about the oil I was talking about is I have seen 1 exception to the statement above. It was a 3010 that was pretty worn and was burning quite a bit of oil and it had enough oil in the cylinders that it would try to hit with only ether for just a second until the oil burned out of the cylinders


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Chief Stick-picker-upper
Joined
·
12,176 Posts
Crack the lines at the injectors really well and crank the engine. Fuel should come out fairly descent. If not, check/replace filters, check fuel pump for fuel delivery and pressure if you have a gauge. You probably have a Rousa Master injection pump
and are known to me, three times, that the plastic attachment piece for the governor will fail, plastic pieces will clog up stuff and then disable the function of the injection pump. There is no way to repair the injection pump yourself, which is easy to do, but get another one at a repair shop and install it yourself. I remember there is a check valve on the fuel line at the injection pump, coming from the fuel pump, that has failed before on my 4240. Talk to your dealer, they usually have good suggestions and are very helpful. I've had to replace the pumps on a 4240, 3020 and a 2280 swather.

These are the checks that I usually perform in troubleshooting. Everybody else reading this, please give construct criticism, if I should of done something different. All I know, it always worked for me.

Good Luck and let us know your progress! :thumbup1gif:
Fuel return line check valve.
s-l300.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: raco232

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Additional steps I've tried

I have tried a few more things, still no luck

I replaced the fuel pump, (From this point forward I'm going to invest in a variety of adapters so I can hook up my gages and test for pressure- it would be cheaper)
I replaced the fuel filter
bled the injectors ( at most I only ever get a dribble)

no smoke no firing, no nothing

As for the oil I just replaced it about 15 hours ago
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Hi,

If you do change out the injection pump, make sure that you find the timing marks and write down the position before removal of the pump.

Also, to be safe, mark the position of the engine crankshaft and don't disturb it. Injection pump timing is tricky and a mis-timed pump will lead to other "no start" issues.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
quick question

Hi,

If you do change out the injection pump, make sure that you find the timing marks and write down the position before removal of the pump.

Also, to be safe, mark the position of the engine crankshaft and don't disturb it. Injection pump timing is tricky and a mis-timed pump will lead to other "no start" issues.

Good luck.
If I set the motor to so the timing pin is engaged, does it matter where the injector pump marks are since they'll no doubt have to move it to rebuild it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,090 Posts
If I set the motor to so the timing pin is engaged, does it matter where the injector pump marks are since they'll no doubt have to move it to rebuild it?
Timing pin needs to be inserted in depression in flywheel when #1 piston is TDC on compression stroke then line up marks inside IP timing window before installing pump.
 

·
Chief Stick-picker-upper
Joined
·
12,176 Posts
Never mind the Red paint.

Timing prior to inj pump removal.
Turn flywheel until pin falls in timing hole.
The timing marks should line up on the Injection Pump.
If not, remove flywheel timing pin and turn engine 180°.
With this accomplished, the #1 piston will be on TDC.
Step_4.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
If I set the motor to so the timing pin is engaged, does it matter where the injector pump marks are since they'll no doubt have to move it to rebuild it?
Hi,

No, you will be "OK" with timing pin set.

Sometimes the engine gets "disturbed" by accident (rotated, etc.)-- that's when trouble happens.

One last tip-- make sure that you have a strong battery. Bleeding the injectors, lines, etc. will require a lot of cranking-- seems obvious-- but I'll mention it.

And expect a lot of rough running until the pump bleeds out all the air.

Good luck.
-Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I'd rather be doing brain surgery

Argh!,
So, I undid everything (lines, cables etc.) and the 3 nuts from the studs. Then I removed the 3 bolts from the gear behind the pump. As I slid the pump out the gear moves from where it was. I am hoping it will be a non-issue if I rotate it back (the gear not the engine) so the pump when properly timed aligns with the holes in the gear.

It's a good thing this isn't happening right in the middle of first cutting:banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Replaced the injector pump

So, I replaced the injector pump, bled the lines, and after some cranking she fired up and ran. I let her run for about 5 minutes and then shut it off.
Darn thing won't start again.
I bled 3 of the lines again but since I'm doing it by myself I have to crank until I get fluid, stop and then tighten the line. DO I have to retighten while it is being cranked?
Also is it normal to have to bleed the lines a few times or should it be good to go once it starts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Update: Starts when cold

Well, I tried to start it again last night after sitting for 24 hours and with a little ether it stated and it purrs like a kitten. It sounds so smooth. I let it run for roughly 30 minutes; took it for a jaunt down the gravel road, maybe 2 miles, and everything was great.
Still a lot of smoke, more whitish than brown/black coming from the vent pipe.
Got home, shut it off and it wouldn't start again.

Does this seem to any of you that this is more of a rebuild issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
A worn engine typically stars easier after warmed up than when stared cold. When it fails to start, do you get any smoke out the exhaust? You mentioned that you changed the injection pump. Was it a new one or rebuilt one? If you are getting no smoke when it fails to start, it sounds like the pump is not building enough pressure to push fuel through the injectors. It also seems odd that you need ether for starting in summer. Compression must be very low if pump and injectors are good and still needs ether.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Ordered rebuilt through Abilene Machine

I do get smoke out of the exhaust when it won't restart after I've had it running.
Yesterday I let it sit about 6 hours after running it so I could remove the front end loader so it would fit in the workshop in case I need to rebuilt the motor.
After sitting that long it did start, again only with ether.
When trying to restart it after it has run I do get some odd noise from the front cylinder (knocking). No amount of ether has any effect to help it restart.

Also I am getting an oily bubbling from the front of the valve cover. I must not have it tightened enough but it seemed that I had.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
I think next step should be remove injectors and have them tested. Also check the compression while injectors are out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Next step

I have been trying to figure out how to do a compression test. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

AS further work I have the valve cover off again and I am going to look at the valve gap. I am curious though, how do I know when #6 is TDC?

I removed the fuel line from the inlet side of the transfer pump and blew air back into the tank just to make sure nothing was blocking the line
I removed the line also from the return line form the injectors into the tank just to make sure I wasn't getting a blockage that caused over pressure
I have ordered 6 new rubber pieces and 12 new clamps to make sure I don't have any leakage form the injector return manifold thingy (good term)

I am thinking of capturing a movie of how nicely the thing seems to run once I get it started to share

Why can't JD just be nice and send me a new 5 or 6 series for being a good customer
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top