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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a 2011 5055E about a year ago. It has 1200 hours, 4x4, FEL, AG tires. I have put about 150 hours on it in the last year. Recently the brakes have started giving a problem. When I use it at higher RMP's (2000) to bush hog or plow the longer I run it the more I have to pump the brakes to get a pedal. When I start out the brakes are fine but after about 45 minutes of operation the pedal starts to weaken... meaning I have to press it half way down to get a pedal. the longer I run it the worse it gets to the point of having no pedal and having to pump 8-10 times to get a pedal. Almost instantly after pumping to get a pedal then releasing for a few seconds the pedal is gone again.

I have changed the fluid and filter about 100 hours ago as well as removed and cleaned the suction strainer... it wasn't really dirty though. Fluid level is good. The problem started about 20 hours ago so it wasn't (or didn't seem to be) a direct result of changing the fluid and filter. I have searched and read a lot of things concerning brakes on these tractors but none seem to have the same symptoms that I have.

What is wrong with my tractor? Please help.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Easy checks first ... Have you bled the brakes on each side ? Was the engine running while you did the bleed?
No sir I have not. I'm open to try it but I do have a nice firm brake pedal for the first several minutes of operation.

I'm one of those that needs to know the "whys". Explain your reasoning please.
 

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A supposition : There's air in the brake circuit. As the machine heats, the air expands making a larger bubble.

The (2015 and later) engine is required to run to make up fluid lost through the bleed process. (check your model year's manual to confirm) First thought I had was bleeding the brakes as it doesn't require any thing beyond a wrench and fluid bottle. Deere's diagnosis process requires a gauge and adapters to start.
 

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Further questions... Are both brakes "getting weak" ? Uncouple the pedals and try them independently. Is there any change to the steering ?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Further questions... Are both brakes "getting weak" ? Uncouple the pedals and try them independently. Is there any change to the steering ?
Steering got a little joggy one time... like it was starving for fluid. That's why I drained and checked suction strainer.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A supposition : There's air in the brake circuit. As the machine heats, the air expands making a larger bubble.

The (2015 and later) engine is required to run to make up fluid lost through the bleed process. (check your model year's manual to confirm) First thought I had was bleeding the brakes as it doesn't require any thing beyond a wrench and fluid bottle. Deere's diagnosis process requires a gauge and adapters to start.
That make sense. I will definitely bleed them.
 

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Be aware that Deere's diagnostic procedures will do a logical and through check. But they require instruments, adapter and gauges. Also, understand the steering gear system has some interaction with the brake system. I believe it supplies hydraulic pressure and fluid to the brakes. (hence running engine to bleed brakes) Here's two isolated procedures that don't require special tooling, copied from the diagnostic manual that may help.... if you're lucky. It's a shot in the dark. If not, you'll have to choose dealer service, or get the manual & proper tools.



Manual brake checks.
1. With engine OFF, individually apply the left brake and the right brake. The pedals should not bottom out even though they will be lower in position than in a engine running power brake mode. Pedals will have a softer feel but should not be spongy.
2. Check to make sure the pedals do not settle to the end of stroke within 10 seconds after being applied. If leakage
exceeds this rate or if one pedal settles faster than the other the brake valve or brake piston may have leakage. ( Note from hosspuller ... A part with a defect that opens when heat expands the metal may explain your problem)
3. Press both pedals at the same time. Both pedals should be the same pedal height and should not bottom out.


Rear Brake Valve Leak Test
Reference
( 1 ) Brake Valve Leak Test
Action:
This test will determine if the brake valve or brake piston is leaking internally.
1. Remove the outlet line to the left or right brake with leak concern and cap outlet fitting on that side of brake valve.
2. With the tractor in PARK, start vehicle and apply brake pedal of concern. Pedal should be firm and should not settle.
3. Shut off engine and apply brake pedal of concern. Pedal should be firm and should not settle.
Result:
YES:Return to diagnosis in process.
NO:Note results in test and return to diagnosis in process.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you, I will check this out.


Be aware that Deere's diagnostic procedures will do a logical and through check. But they require instruments, adapter and gauges. Also, understand the steering gear system has some interaction with the brake system. I believe it supplies hydraulic pressure and fluid to the brakes. (hence running engine to bleed brakes) Here's two isolated procedures that don't require special tooling, copied from the diagnostic manual that may help.... if you're lucky. It's a shot in the dark. If not, you'll have to choose dealer service, or get the manual & proper tools.



Manual brake checks.
1. With engine OFF, individually apply the left brake and the right brake. The pedals should not bottom out even though they will be lower in position than in a engine running power brake mode. Pedals will have a softer feel but should not be spongy.
2. Check to make sure the pedals do not settle to the end of stroke within 10 seconds after being applied. If leakage
exceeds this rate or if one pedal settles faster than the other the brake valve or brake piston may have leakage. ( Note from hosspuller ... A part with a defect that opens when heat expands the metal may explain your problem)
3. Press both pedals at the same time. Both pedals should be the same pedal height and should not bottom out.


Rear Brake Valve Leak Test
Reference
( 1 ) Brake Valve Leak Test
Action:
This test will determine if the brake valve or brake piston is leaking internally.
1. Remove the outlet line to the left or right brake with leak concern and cap outlet fitting on that side of brake valve.
2. With the tractor in PARK, start vehicle and apply brake pedal of concern. Pedal should be firm and should not settle.
3. Shut off engine and apply brake pedal of concern. Pedal should be firm and should not settle.
Result:
YES:Return to diagnosis in process.
NO:Note results in test and return to diagnosis in process.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If anyone has a fluid schematic I would love to take a look at it. I'm trying to understand how fluid is delivered to the brake system.
 

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Are your brakes dragging and getting hot? Brakes do not work well when hot. They would typically work well when you start out, then lose effectiveness later.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No dragging, haven't felt around for heat. After running an hour or so at 2000ish RPM's the pedal is gone... goes all the way down with no braking whatsoever. Takes several pumps to get a pedal and 5 seconds later the pedal is gone and has to be pumped back up to have brakes again.


Are your brakes dragging and getting hot? Brakes do not work well when hot. They would typically work well when you start out, then lose effectiveness later.

Dave
 

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So what happens if you let it sit and run for an hour at 2000 RPM? Do the brakes act the same way?

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I haven't just let it sit and run... only while using it - bush hogging or plowing with pasture rejuvenating plow(kinda like (6) subsoiler plows on a bar but only 4-5 inches deep.


So what happens if you let it sit and run for an hour at 2000 RPM? Do the brakes act the same way?

Dave
 
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