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When I got my tractor it was leaking a bit from the PTO shaft. I drained all fluids and went to work on the resto. Having finished the motor I filled the trans with 80w-90. A couple of days ago I took the PTO cover off to replace the seal and trans lub started leaking out of the bearing. I cannot see any seal in the shop manual or parts book that would prevent trans lube from getting into the PTO clutch area altho the book calls for different lube in both housings. Any thoughts on this. I am currently baffled and really don't want to tear the whole thing apart unless I need to.
 

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DR, can you give us hint about what machine your working on?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, I popped this thread from a PM I had sent to a member earlier... it is a 1952 model 60.
 

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The PTO housing is a different compartment than the transmission. I'm in the middle of overhauling mine at the moment, still collecting parts. The only part that goes between is the internal power shaft.

Here you can see the rockshaft/PTO housing is removed off of my 60.

IMG_3168.jpg


Here you can see the PTO powershaft between the two axle drive gears.

IMG_3170.JPG


Here's the front side of the rockshaft/PTO housing. You can see how the shaft connects.

IMG_2659.jpg


This is the PTO oil pump. It's inside the transmission cavity.

IMG_3216.JPG

The seal on the oil pump is probably the source of your leak. Could be the gasket on the oil pump too. Unfortunately the rockshaft/PTO housing must come off the tractor to repair this seal. The oil pump can then be removed to replace the seal and gasket.

IMG_3219.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Jason,
Thanks for the pics and the info. I suspected as much. The cherry picker is in the garage now and it will come off tomorrow evening.
I just read the resto thread you are doing on yours, big project. And yep those brake springs are stout. Looks like your trans cavity took some real hard hits. Mine looked fine, the front half was the bugger, it was stuck big time. Lots of rust but I finally got the old pistons out and it did clean up with a .125 bore. The wheels wedges like yours took some effort. The pinions were rusted bad but with heat and lots of rust dissolver ( many different kinds) I finally got them to work. Will keep this going with what I find

Hutch
 

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I'd really enjoy seeing your project.:drinks: I'm sure others would like to see it as well.:thumbup1gif: Can't wait to hear about your success!:good2:

Don't hesitate to fire away with any questions. I'll do what I can to help.:bye:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well I have it off and the 350# chunk of iron setting on the floor of the garage. The pump is off and the seal/bearing out. Now the can of worms is beginning to come to life. It seems that on the early tractors the seal was the only part. The later ones had a bearing and a seal - here is where the worms come in. They also had a different pump housing and clutch drum/ shaft. I haven't been able - yet - to find a replacement part like my original. I will let you all know what my searching brings and what my final fix will be.
 

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Well I have it off and the 350# chunk of iron setting on the floor of the garage. The pump is off and the seal/bearing out. Now the can of worms is beginning to come to life. It seems that on the early tractors the seal was the only part. The later ones had a bearing and a seal - here is where the worms come in. They also had a different pump housing and clutch drum/ shaft. I haven't been able - yet - to find a replacement part like my original. I will let you all know what my searching brings and what my final fix will be.
I'm currently in the same boat. I'm looking for a new clutch drum shaft. Fairly rare.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Jason,
My tractor is an early one, serial 3000, and has the pump housing casting number of A4568R. It seems that the seal / bearing that has the National number of AA-524-TR is no longer available, at least that's what my net searches are indicating. My plan now is to fabricate a bronze bushing in place of that seal and use an available seal behind it to block the oil migration. I think this will be less brain damage (and pocket book damage) than trying to hunt down a donor tractor with a late model pump housing and shaft.
Hutch
 

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Do you have the old one removed? Perhaps you can try taking it to somewhere like Napa auto parts and see if they can cross-reference it. I've had good luck with a local bearing shop as well. Can you post a picture of it? My oil pump has a separate seal and bushing. Maybe you can upgrade?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I got a seal from O'Reillys and a bronze bushing from a local bearing house. The bushing will require a bit of turning on the OD to make it fit. I will cut it off so the length of the bushing and seal fill the space available.
I assume this pump supplies the oil pressure to power the rock shaft. Am I correct in this assumption? Also my housing has a hole and passage from the pump to the area I am going to install the new bushing. The old seal/rubber bushing didn't have a corresponding hole. I would think a matching hole in the bronze bushing to let the pump supply oil to the shaft/bushing area wouldn't hurt unless it might bleed off too much pressure and render the rock shaft inop. Another problem might be the new seal wouldn't be able to handle the pressure and allow PTO oil to get into the transmission.
 

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I got a seal from O'Reillys and a bronze bushing from a local bearing house. The bushing will require a bit of turning on the OD to make it fit. I will cut it off so the length of the bushing and seal fill the space available.
I assume this pump supplies the oil pressure to power the rock shaft. Am I correct in this assumption? Also my housing has a hole and passage from the pump to the area I am going to install the new bushing. The old seal/rubber bushing didn't have a corresponding hole. I would think a matching hole in the bronze bushing to let the pump supply oil to the shaft/bushing area wouldn't hurt unless it might bleed off too much pressure and render the rock shaft inop. Another problem might be the new seal wouldn't be able to handle the pressure and allow PTO oil to get into the transmission.
The pump supplies lube oil to the PTO clutch and itself, hence the hole in the housing. The pump picks up oil from the bottom of the PTO clutch drum housing and pumps/dumps oil directly on top of the clutch and reduction gear. The hole you need to drill is on the discharge side of the pump. This passage keeps fresh lube on the bushing and clutch drum shaft. There is very little pressure on this oil circuit because it's an open system. There's no orifices or closed bearing, just an open oil passageway. Because of this the pump takes little energy to run and doesn't have to be as precise and tight like an engine oil pump or hydraulic oil pump.

The rockshaft gets it's pressurized oil from the engine driven Powrtrol pump. It has a handle on it to engage or disengage it from the engine. It's located just below the dash panel on the left hand side.

IMG_2667.jpg

Here you can see it directly centered in the picture. I have some wire attached to the engagement handle holding the starter rod up.
 

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Ok I got some more info for you. My PTO oil pump has a double seal (that needs to be replaced) and the bushing is short enough to create a groove rather than needing a oil. Here's a few pics.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1387070305.033115.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1387070315.549679.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1387070329.549662.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1387070339.365410.jpg

With the last two pics you can see the hole that feeds the bushing via the groove with lube oil.

You may try to look up that part number for that special seal. :good2:
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Well the housing is back on the tractor. A minimum two person job and better with three. That whole unit weighs around 325 lbs.
Here is the fix I applied to the pump problem. I purchased a bronze bushing locally, the part # was CB 182164 it is an 1 1/8 ID, 1 5/8 OD bushing. I then had a friend with a lathe turn it down to fit.


I then cut it to length, drilled the oil hole and pressed it in the pump.


Then I inserted the seal, local from O'rilleys auto parts. Pt number National 50151S.
After assembling everything it was time to put it all back together and this is where it quit being a one man job. The drive shaft from inside the transmission housing is a three piece unit, two couplers and a shaft. In trying to do this myself, between the mass of the unit, mis-alined splines, very small area to get a hand in to line up everything the shaft kept collapsing and I couldn't turn or hold it in order to get it together. I finally glued the couplers in their farthest extension to the shaft using 3M weather strip. That solved the shaft from collapsing but not the spline alignment.

As you can see not much room in there to align/ turn/ push together.
So enter the help. Got a couple of friends, one to turn the flywheel and the other to manage the housing and it went together in about 10 minutes.
 

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