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Discussion Starter #1
So i pulled a dumb move...in a big hurry to beat a storm i grabbed the wrong white one gallon jug and put about a pint of Round Up in the hydraulic fluid of my 855 tractor. It ran for about 5 minutes then stopped. I drained the fluid, cleaned the screen and changed the filter. Filled $75 worth of fresh low vis Hyguard...moved three feet and stopped. Drain and repeat five more time but with the same "fresh" oil hoping to flush out the contaminants before i drop another $75. each time i did this, it would move a bit farther and the screen was less clogged, but now I have very small metal shavings.

What do you think? Pump or transaxel? Please say pump.

Thanks!
Ron
 

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I have a hard time believing a pint or round up caused the shavings and the hydrostat to get destroyed, wow. But...if it's not moving I'd say most likely it's the hydrostat, unless your lucky and the charge pump is bad.

Is the steering and loader working OK, can you do a pressure test at one of the loader ports?
 

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Given that the 855 probably contains 4+ gallons of hydraulic fluid I cannot see that adding one PINT of weed killer fluid is going to immediately cause the pump or transmission to go bad and generate metal filings in just a few minutes. Whatever you poured in would be massively diluted in all that oil.

I’ll admit though that it seems like a big coincidence.
 

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No, no steering or loader movement. I thought it was a bit weak when i got it in January and also a little loud. I do think the contamination and shavings could be unrelated but dont have much experience with hydrostats.

I have a hard time believing a pint or round up caused the shavings and the hydrostat to get destroyed, wow. But...if it's not moving I'd say most likely it's the hydrostat, unless your lucky and the charge pump is bad.

Is the steering and loader working OK, can you do a pressure test at one of the loader ports?
 

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Start with a pressure test at the loader ports, we have a video showing how and sell a gauge too.
 

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Do you have a hydro system leak which is why you are adding fluid in the first place?

Seems very odd to me that having 1/32nd of the fluid amount (4 gallons is 32 pints of total fluid with 2 pints per quart and 4 quarts per gallon) contaminated with Round up would have caused that much damage. It would seem the round up would be "lighter" (less viscosity) than low Vis hydro fluid so if the fluid pick up is pulling from the sump, it would have pulled mostly hydro oil anyways.......

It also seems odd the hydro would have starved the pump of all oil despite the mix up.....

Were there issues before the "event" which could explain some of the damage? (Leaks, inconsistent performance, etc?)
 

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No, no steering or loader movement. I thought it was a bit weak when i got it in January and also a little loud. I do think the contamination and shavings could be unrelated but dont have much experience with hydrostats.
If you had reasons to suspect possible hydraulic issues when you bought the tractor in January, it’s possible the current issue was induced by draining and changing the fluid. Perhaps you disturbed some sediments that were waiting to cause trouble.
 

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How many hours are on the machine?

When you say it seemed "weak when you got it in January", could you describe that in more detail?

Is this the first time you serviced the hydro unit?

Can you post your VIN number as there are at least 3 different transmissions / pumps for the 855 from what I can see.....

Holy, cow, the one I did look up is still available, but you are going to want to be sitting down when you see the price....

AM118961 - This is one of the assembly numbers I come up with........here is the link to the parts at
$4,259.73.......

Good news is it Looks like a lot of the parts are still available, which is a good thing, but rebuilding a transmission for the hydro systems is not something which you want to dive into if your not fairly proficient in mechanical repairs.....

John Deere Part AM118961 Field Installation Kit
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No major leaks, just a little low on the dipstick. and i agree that it is a small amount in the total fluid. The screen was completely clogged to the point were only about half a gallon drained from the drain. I had to pull the screen to drain the remainder. But, cleaning the screen and changing the filter did little to improve. i only changed the fluid AFTER it stopped moving after the contamination.

A little more detail on the symptoms - start up, rev up, then loader moves very slowly and trans moves a bit then fades to nothing. the trans begins working with the typical whine then when it fades so does the noise. same with the loader.

thanks for all the feedback guys!

Do you have a hydro system leak which is why you are adding fluid in the first place?

Seems very odd to me that having 1/32nd of the fluid amount (4 gallons is 32 pints of total fluid with 2 pints per quart and 4 quarts per gallon) contaminated with Round up would have caused that much damage. It would seem the round up would be "lighter" (less viscosity) than low Vis hydro fluid so if the fluid pick up is pulling from the sump, it would have pulled mostly hydro oil anyways.......

It also seems odd the hydro would have starved the pump of all oil despite the mix up.....

Were there issues before the "event" which could explain some of the damage? (Leaks, inconsistent performance, etc?)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I only changed the fluid after it stopped moving, so that's why i was thinking it was the contamination that caused, or at least accelerated the stoppage. i am pretty sure round up is in an oil base, and the drained, old oil was clear, not milky white as if it had water in it. there was a bit of whiteish sludge in the screen housing as well as clogging the housing.

If you had reasons to suspect possible hydraulic issues when you bought the tractor in January, it’s possible the current issue was induced by draining and changing the fluid. Perhaps you disturbed some sediments that were waiting to cause trouble.
 

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If something grenades that bad, then likely there is major damage to the tranny and pump(s) at this point, especially after you keep trying to run it.
 
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its like it wants to go and does a little but then gives up. and I should note that the shavings are VERY small. very tiny shiny specks.

If something grenades that bad, then likely there is major damage to the tranny and pump(s) at this point, especially after you keep trying to run it.
 

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So i pulled a dumb move...in a big hurry to beat a storm i grabbed the wrong white one gallon jug and put about a pint of Round Up in the hydraulic fluid of my 855 tractor. It ran for about 5 minutes then stopped. I drained the fluid, cleaned the screen and changed the filter. Filled $75 worth of fresh low vis Hyguard...moved three feet and stopped. Drain and repeat five more time but with the same "fresh" oil hoping to flush out the contaminants before i drop another $75. each time i did this, it would move a bit farther and the screen was less clogged, but now I have very small metal shavings.

What do you think? Pump or transaxel? Please say pump.

Thanks!
Ron
As the owner of a 855 now going on thirty years old, I can state to you with confidence that a quart of Round up has NOTHING at all to do with metal shavings. I will also say that if everything appears to be working normally, I doubt that it's the pump.

Having sadl all of that, here is my very own reasons. I just finished repairing my transaxle. After thirty years it blew up the main PTO shaft, some other gears, etc. It also developed a seal leak at the MM PTO which I never want to experience again because you Can't repair that seal without super major expense at the dealer.

Those metal shavings on an 855 are an indicator of wear or broken gear teeth. Assuming that the hydro oil in the past was changed at normal intervals, you really should not have any shavings in the oil. Another explanation for shavings is that someone had the transaxle out & put in new parts that are wearing in or failing due to improper install.

If things are running ok I would just not worry about it. Whatever will happen, sooner or later will happen. Also you have parts in the tranny that run as High as $750-$850, like the main PTO shaft & gear. Other parts in there range from a low of $5. to $750. Some parts are NLA, like bushings & some bearings which is what I ran into repairing my tranny. And gaskets for the front & rear cover can run as much as $75. When I fixed mine, I eliminated the gasket and used Aerobic gasket sealant. Much better than the gaskets of old. If you have to go into the transaxle, make sure you have a loan standing by.

To save money on my 855, I pulled the transaxle out myself & delivered it to the shop. The 855 is a strong tractor & beats any of the compact small & mid frames they make today, unless you need all that stupid stuff they come with. The 855 is a workhorse, but like anything else, time, wear & tear, abuse, takes its toll. Good luck. I really do feel for you.

Low Vis oil. There is nothing magic about JD low vis oil. Your tractor probably was built when the spec for oil was JDM J20B.
That oil is now obsolete. So why are you paying for JD Low Vis oil which is out of spec for the 855. I was doing that too until I got wise to it. I now use Napa Hydraulic oil in the white pail & it covers the old 855 spec & beyond. But I can buy it for $58. for 5 gallons. And I've also used Coastal Multi Trac hydraulic oil in the green pail for $38. for 5 gallons. Absolutely no problems at all with either one. The one thing I do not do is mix the brands. If I'm running the Napa, I stay with it & any top off. Why pay the stupid price JD gets. My neighbor across the road from me is a farmer. He has some really big tractors. I asked him. He said He has done it all. He uses any brand he can get that is low vis & clean. He runs the same as I mentioned & a few I never herd of. Just something to consider if you think you will be going thru a lot of oil. There's almost 5 gallons of that juice in there with the filter change & what you spill on the ground. :bigbeer:
 

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. It also developed a seal leak at the MM PTO which I never want to experience again because you Can't repair that seal without super major expense at the dealer.
:bigbeer:

This is the road I'm headed down...955...mm pto seal started leaking 2 years ago....I figure oil is gonna be way cheaper than the fix. Tech said the seal goes in from the inside of the front cover......meaning total teardown. Bound to find other issues when they are in there......uuhhgggg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I guess i just don't know enough about how these hydrostats work. I just tried it after is sitting for 2 days and it worked fine for about two minutes. It acts like it is starving for fluid or pressure. I'm going to leave it alone for a while so i don't do any more damage so I can do more research and get more opinions.



As the owner of a 855 now going on thirty years old, I can state to you with confidence that a quart of Round up has NOTHING at all to do with metal shavings. I will also say that if everything appears to be working normally, I doubt that it's the pump.

Having sadl all of that, here is my very own reasons. I just finished repairing my transaxle. After thirty years it blew up the main PTO shaft, some other gears, etc. It also developed a seal leak at the MM PTO which I never want to experience again because you Can't repair that seal without super major expense at the dealer.

Those metal shavings on an 855 are an indicator of wear or broken gear teeth. Assuming that the hydro oil in the past was changed at normal intervals, you really should not have any shavings in the oil. Another explanation for shavings is that someone had the transaxle out & put in new parts that are wearing in or failing due to improper install.

If things are running ok I would just not worry about it. Whatever will happen, sooner or later will happen. Also you have parts in the tranny that run as High as $750-$850, like the main PTO shaft & gear. Other parts in there range from a low of $5. to $750. Some parts are NLA, like bushings & some bearings which is what I ran into repairing my tranny. And gaskets for the front & rear cover can run as much as $75. When I fixed mine, I eliminated the gasket and used Aerobic gasket sealant. Much better than the gaskets of old. If you have to go into the transaxle, make sure you have a loan standing by.

To save money on my 855, I pulled the transaxle out myself & delivered it to the shop. The 855 is a strong tractor & beats any of the compact small & mid frames they make today, unless you need all that stupid stuff they come with. The 855 is a workhorse, but like anything else, time, wear & tear, abuse, takes its toll. Good luck. I really do feel for you.

Low Vis oil. There is nothing magic about JD low vis oil. Your tractor probably was built when the spec for oil was JDM J20B.
That oil is now obsolete. So why are you paying for JD Low Vis oil which is out of spec for the 855. I was doing that too until I got wise to it. I now use Napa Hydraulic oil in the white pail & it covers the old 855 spec & beyond. But I can buy it for $58. for 5 gallons. And I've also used Coastal Multi Trac hydraulic oil in the green pail for $38. for 5 gallons. Absolutely no problems at all with either one. The one thing I do not do is mix the brands. If I'm running the Napa, I stay with it & any top off. Why pay the stupid price JD gets. My neighbor across the road from me is a farmer. He has some really big tractors. I asked him. He said He has done it all. He uses any brand he can get that is low vis & clean. He runs the same as I mentioned & a few I never herd of. Just something to consider if you think you will be going thru a lot of oil. There's almost 5 gallons of that juice in there with the filter change & what you spill on the ground. :bigbeer:
 

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So i just had another thought...when installing the filter, i missed the lug and spilled quite a bit of fluid. Would air in the system cause the fade of the hydro power?


Given that the 855 probably contains 4+ gallons of hydraulic fluid I cannot see that adding one PINT of weed killer fluid is going to immediately cause the pump or transmission to go bad and generate metal filings in just a few minutes. Whatever you poured in would be massively diluted in all that oil.

I’ll admit though that it seems like a big coincidence.
 

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So i just had another thought...when installing the filter, i missed the lug and spilled quite a bit of fluid. Would air in the system cause the fade of the hydro power?
I believe the hydraulic systems on these tractors is self-bleeding. On my 2720 (which of course is a newer model) I don't even bother trying to pre-fill the hydraulic filter because it is mounted horizontally and just makes a big mess. I've had no issues with air in the system.
 
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Ive seen way too much foreign fluids and other items introduced into a hydraulic system over the years. I've never heard of such a failure with such a small amount and in the small timeframe you mentioned.
The fact you put some Roundup in it has to be purely a coincidence to your problem.

While I really cant give you any sort of explanation to your actual problem, you adding that small amount of fluid didn't cause any lasting damage.

Good luck getting it all sorted out and, hope it isn't all that expensive to repair.
 

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I have one tractor that I have owned for 20 years,, (not JD)
but,, both times I changed the hydraulic oil,, I had a difficult time getting the oil to "prime" or whatever it is called,,

The second time, I had even pre-filled the filter,,

My money would be bet on the oil not getting to the pump correctly,,, yet,,

Somewhere, I had recently read about using a little air pressure to help the priming,,
The person applied air pressure with a rag wrapped air nozzle into the fill port,,
the little extra pressure was enough to make the fluid flow in the hydraulic system,,, again,,

DO THIS WITH EXTREME CAUTION,, I am sure a little pressure could blow a seal,,,:flag_of_truce:
 
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This is the road I'm headed down...955...mm pto seal started leaking 2 years ago....I figure oil is gonna be way cheaper than the fix. Tech said the seal goes in from the inside of the front cover......meaning total teardown. Bound to find other issues when they are in there......uuhhgggg
What I say here is my Opinion alone based on all the grief I have had with my MM seal leak, oil & repairs.

My seal leak (and yours too) was a result of wear & had nothing to do at all with the brand oil. Up until the leak started on my PTO I used nothing but JD oil.

Secondly, the oil seal design in this unit is a YANMAR design. Whatever idiot designed the thing made it so (with no apparent reason) that the entire tranny front cover must be removed to make the replacement. This is one of the most stupid things done & a complete miss on the part of the engineers & designers to allow a $10. parts fix turn into thousands of dollars.

Thirdly. Behind the oil seal, the only other part on that shaft that could have wear on it is what they call the "Wear Sleeve". Not a big expense, cheap part. That should be replaced with the oil seal. Unless you have other issues, there should be nothing else related to fixing the seal leak as it is a stand alone part that just sits in to front case cavity.

Seal installation. The first jerk who replaced my seal (at the Dealer) "Rolled the seal" when replacing it & after everything was buttoned up & back on the tractor, I had a leaking seal again after about fours hours of run time. The dealer fired the mechanic & I waited while they tried to hire a new mechanic who knew what he was doing. They finally hired someone who was competent. What he did was to remove the PTO shaft & the entire group of gears it meshed with. He installed all the new parts, including the seal on the PTO shaft. Then as a complete assembly, he re installed the entire gear assembly as a unit. He them installed the front cover. No more leaks. I am mentioning this to you because doing it the way the new mechanic did it required a skill level well above the idiot they put on the job the first time.

Back to oil. I am no longer wasting money on JD oil. I did not Willy Nilly come to this decision because-YES replacing anything in that transaxle is a horror show. But I have researched the subject & as I said Napa Hydro oil as well as Coastal Multi Trac cover the old original spec for the 55 series tractors. So why pay for a JD oil that is no longer covering your tractor? Also I have talked to numerous people on all levels & areas of knowledge on the subject. They all tell me that the SPECS become obsolete anytime a change is made to the additives or processing of materials & sometimes when they change vendors. It's the engineering way of keeping track of changes. When you change a process, a material, a vendor, the engineer routinely "OBSOLETES" the previous. It's simply a way of keeping track of changes & 999.99% of the time it has ZERO affect on any of the parts or system the oil is graded for.

So whatever you do on this. If you try to repair it yourself or have it done you need to have a darn good mechanic working on it. If you DIY it, the repair may be more difficult than you think. So just remember this. As you bend over & smile as you sing out "Here it comes again", Tell yourself how much you love green & yellow paint & super overpriced parts & labor.

:bigbeer:
 
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