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Discussion Starter #1
I'm working on the layout for adding an angle cylinder to my blade, figured I'd run the idea by folks here.

IMG_0596.jpg

My plan is to go from the frame, right behind the right side three point pin to the blade right above the third brace in on the blade, about 36" away from the center pivot. It's 48" from point to point, and I found a 5x24" cylinder. 12" stroke both directions will allow me to angle the blade almost exactly to the first notch on the factory lock. I won't be using the locks, but that's how far it can move.

IMG_0600.jpg

The blade is 10' wide overall. I can move the mounting point on the blade in or out to gain more angle or to have more leverage. I'm planning on using a 5" cylinder, that's the largest bore I've found yet. I need to find the right balance strength to keep the blade in position when grading or doing dirt work, while also having enough angle to move snow or other material.

Any input, thought, or math calculations would be appreciated. :munch: I'm willing to change whatever part of the design needs to change if it can make it work better.
 

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5" bore will make the blade S L O W to react,,, I think you would want it to rotate much faster.

2 or 3 inch bore would be plenty strong,,, the max force on the cylinder would be about the weight of the tractor.

A cylinder with a 1 1/4 inch rod would be adequate.

My landscape rake was designed for hydraulic angling,,,



The perfect cylinder for the rake would be a 20 1/4" CPCD cylinder,,, with 8" of stroke.

Remember to add a bracket on the back, so the blade can be reversed. :thumbup1gif:
 

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5" bore will make the blade S L O W to react,,, I think you would want it to rotate much faster.

2 or 3 inch bore would be plenty strong,,, the max force on the cylinder would be about the weight of the tractor.

A cylinder with a 1 1/4 inch rod would be adequate.
I agree, a 5" cylinder would be overkill. I would think a 2.5 inch bore would be sufficient, would cycle much faster, and be a LOT cheaper.

Edit: I see that Land Pride uses a 3.5" cylinder on a blade rated for similar horsepower:
Land Pride RBT 35 Series Specs


Tim
 

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Who cares about cycle times? You're only using it to change the angle, not split wood. Slow is ok in my book. In fact, both of my top and tilt cylinders have orifices to slow them down. :good2:
 

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Who cares about cycle times? You're only using it to change the angle, not split wood. Slow is ok in my book. In fact, both of my top and tilt cylinders have orifices to slow them down. :good2:
I guess I was thinking about cost. You are right, if one already has a 5" cylinder available, it would definitely work.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
It's a 10' wide blade being pulled by a 60 HP 4wd tractor, I'd estimate the weight between 6-7,000 lbs- and the blade may get hooked to a larger machine as well. When cutting on one side of the blade or the other, all that force is trying to either collapse or pull the cylinder apart. I really have some serious doubts about a 2-3" cylinder holding up to that kind of force, especially with 20+ inches of stroke. The blade came from the factory with two steel angle locks that are 3/4" thick. There's going to be an awful lot of force on this. Speed isn't a big concern for me- my side link is 3.5" and moves plenty fast, I'm sure a 5" cylinder will be fast enough. Slower than 3.5 for sure, but still much faster than getting off the tractor, unlocking the blade, turning it and relocking it.


I just found the specs (thanks timmarks!) for a 10' Land Pride blade, the RBT55120. It's the lowest HP rating 10' I could find on their site. They spec a 4.5x16x2" cylinder. It looks like a much heavier duty blade than what I have, and they're mounting the cylinder much closer to the pivot point than I am which would put even more stress on it. Maybe I could go with a smaller cylinder, or move my mounting point in to gain more angle. I'm just paranoid about breaking implements. It's happened once or twice. :laugh: :flag_of_truce:
 

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It's a 10' wide blade being pulled by a 60 HP 4wd tractor, I'd estimate the weight between 6-7,000 lbs- and the blade may get hooked to a larger machine as well. When cutting on one side of the blade or the other, all that force is trying to either collapse or pull the cylinder apart. I really have some serious doubts about a 2-3" cylinder holding up to that kind of force, especially with 20+ inches of stroke. The blade came from the factory with two steel angle locks that are 3/4" thick. There's going to be an awful lot of force on this. Speed isn't a big concern for me- my side link is 3.5" and moves plenty fast, I'm sure a 5" cylinder will be fast enough. Slower than 3.5 for sure, but still much faster than getting off the tractor, unlocking the blade, turning it and relocking it.

I could be wrong, but all the factory hydraulic blades I've looked at appear to have larger cylinders. Does anyone have a hydraulic blade that they could measure?
I added a link to a Land Pride Hydraulic blade above.

Check out this calculator showing how much force a given cylinder can push at a given PSI.

Cylinder calculator

I can't remember ever using larger than a 4" bore on the farm. The IH 32' disk that we had used a single 4" x 16" (or maybe 20") to lift it when folded.
Here is a picture of one of those disks (the picture is probably a 28', but the 32' was the same lift style). This thing took a LOT of punishment from me when going down the road. Lots of bouncing, etc.

IH 490 Disk Harrow Folded


Having said this, I'm sure Jason, Kenny, and you know MUCH more about hydraulics than I do....so I wouldn't put much stock in my opinions on this topic :good2:
 

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My Frontier RB2196H 8ft rear blade does not have a cylinder anywhere near that big. I assume the 5 inch cylinder you are referring to is the bore size?? The rod would be smaller. I have not measured mine, but I would estimate the bore to be about 2 1/2 inches or a little more and the rod to be 1 inch to 1 1/4 inches. I realize this is not as heavy duty blade as yours, but it would seem to me that the 5 inch cylinder would be plenty strong enough. I would not worry about speed. Speed is not essential in this application. Stroke is more important. However, since you are fabricating this yourself, you can compensate for that by building multiple mounting points on the blade, which would give you choices of how much you wanted the blade to move merely by choosing a different mounting point. Also by creating multiple mounting points, you can choose the outer mounting point for extra strength for the really tough jobs. Although this decreases the ability to move the blade as much, it would give you the strength you are looking for. For snow, use the mounting point that allows the most movement and for dirt, use the mounting point that provides the most strength, although the least movement.

Good Luck.....
Dave
 

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For snow, use the mounting point that allows the most movement and for dirt, use the mounting point that provides the most strength, although the least movement.
My Land Pride with hydraulic angle also has the mechanical pin locks. I use the hydraulic angle for snow and if I need to use it for dirt I remove the cylinder and use the mechanical pin detents.
 
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Maybe 2 smaller cylinders with a crossover relief valve would be better. One cylinder on either side.
I can't wrap my head around having to using a 5" cylinder.:dunno:
 

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Did you see what happened to my box blade? :laugh:
:lol: Yes. ↓↓↓
Maybe 2 smaller cylinders with a crossover relief valve would be better. One cylinder on either side.
 

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I don't know how well that would work for grading. Seems most factory hydraulic blades use a single cylinder without a crossover.
:dunno:I don't know either, Just a suggestion.
 
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Yes. ↓↓↓
Maybe 2 smaller cylinders with a crossover relief valve would be better. One cylinder on either side.
I was wondering about this too. But then my only experiences have been with power angle pickup truck plows and manually angled rear blades. I have zero experience with a hyd adjustable rear blade.
 
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Additional stress with second cylinder

I was wondering about this too. But then my only experiences have been with power angle pickup truck plows and manually angled rear blades. I have zero experience with a hyd adjustable rear blade.
I'm guessing, (don't really know) that a cross over cylinder arrangement would build in some stress to the blade due to the different cylinder capacities depending on whether it's a push or pull unless you sized them differently to take care of the area of the rod.

Some of the hydraulic guru's could tell us but I would think the different capacities and therefore movement per cu in of fluid would require adding stress to balance out the cylinders.

I guess I could take pencil to paper and work it out :banghead: but someone on here already knows the answer.

Treefarmer
 

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I'm guessing, (don't really know) that a cross over cylinder arrangement would build in some stress to the blade due to the different cylinder capacities depending on whether it's a push or pull unless you sized them differently to take care of the area of the rod.

Some of the hydraulic guru's could tell us but I would think the different capacities and therefore movement per cu in of fluid would require adding stress to balance out the cylinders.

I guess I could take pencil to paper and work it out :banghead: but someone on here already knows the answer.

Treefarmer
Good point. I believe that the cylinders on a pickup plow are push only...only the side being extended gets pressurized and the other side is free flow back to the reservoir.
 

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Good point. I believe that the cylinders on a pickup plow are push only...only the side being extended gets pressurized and the other side is free flow back to the reservoir.
I'm not sure that is the way it works on my snow plow setup. I think both sides are pressurized but then again I don't really know, I just did what Kennyd told me to do.:lol:

IMG_1244_2.jpg
 
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Maybe 2 smaller cylinders with a crossover relief valve would be better. One cylinder on either side.
I can't wrap my head around having to using a 5" cylinder.:dunno:
You only see this for single acting ram style cylinders on snow plows. No sense complicating it with two cylinders when one will do the job.
Crossover relief valve is a good idea.
 

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You only see this for single acting ram style cylinders on snow plows. No sense complicating it with two cylinders when one will do the job.
Crossover relief valve is a good idea.
So what you're saying is, my first idea was just junk and you added the crossover relief valve was a good idea to make me feel better. :lol::lol:
 
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