Almost a month in owning my 1025r
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Really???? I don't have a back hoe but my fel hasn't left the tractor yet and I can very easily move the wheel with one hand. Heck I could probably steer with 1 or 2 fingers with zero rear ballast besides rim guard and my own large frame. I'd be completely shocked to know that I'd need that much ballast just having the front end loader on it.
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93 Posts
See I thought about getting a carry all or something and loading that up. But I also saw someone who made a nice 3 point concrete block with a place for chains and shovels and such by using one of those cheap 3 pt frames, build a wooden box around it and add some extra rebar and pour cement.
Whenever using the loader your hand should ALWAYS be on the joystick so you can react to changes.
You'll be even more shocked when your tractor starts to tip or lose control with no ballast.
Filled tires and wheel weights aid traction more than they act as ballast. Effective ballast (as indicated in your manual) needs to be as far back on the 3 Point as possible.
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11,567 Posts
Sadly, its surprising how many people who sell tractors for a living are so misinformed about rear ballast. One day, their ignorance or indifference will lead to legal action against the dealership when someone they provide terrible advice to is either injured or worse.
Lifting snow with the FEL is one thing and depending upon the temps, you can get a bucket load which might approach the capacity of the loader, but its unlikely. How you lift things and the weight of the object are just part of the equation with rear ballast. Ballast is about balance of the machine. A properly ballasted machine is a well balanced machine. It's also a machine which is much safer and far less likely to be damaged.
""I know snow isn't that heavy, but I am not sure I will ever need rear ballast for the things I will be lifting. I had the forks on with 7 totes piled on them. They were heavy and filled with oils and such. At first I was like I don't know if I will be able to lift this, but it didn't even struggle nor did I feel worried about it tipping.""
How much does a large limb which a storm might brings down weigh? You have no idea how you will be using the tractor as time goes on. One of the most common things which newer owners of equipment will tell us is that they found themselves using their tractors and equipment in ways which they couldn't even imagine, nor had they ever planned or anticipated.
Often, they are surprised by the projects they find for their tractors and readily admit they never imagined they would use their tractors in ways which they now often do. How will that be for you? It's hard to say but to think you won't be lifting heavy items is unrealistic.
The entire point of ballast is to balance the machine front to rear. As a tractor sits without the FEL and without anything on the 3ph, it;s relatively balanced from an engineering design perspective. The moment you add the FEL, the machine is nose heavy. Add any weight to the bucket or pallet forks, its very unbalanced on the front of the machine.
Experience will make you aware of these things. We don't advocate for ballast for any reasons other than operator safety and machine longevity. I carry a MINIMUM of 450 pounds of rear ballast on my 3ph carry all and my tractor already has the Mauser cab, which adds 425 pounds directly over the axle on the operator station.
During times of heavy use, I have gotten the rear ballast up to 900 pounds. When I was was building a road with crushed aggregate using the FEL and box blade, the tractor ballast stayed at 900 pounds the entire project.
Without ballast, you are putting the front axle of your tractor under severe strain when lifting heavy loads. Eventually, it will cause damage. Incidentally, if you were to experience front axle failure while under warranty, you can be assured you would be asked at some point how much rear ballast you were using when the damage occurred. If you were to indicate you didn't need any ballast, you very well could be in for a challenge on your warranty claim. Why risk any damage when the owners and operators manual is very clear about the need for rear ballast?
The owners / operators manual is filled with a lot of actually interesting and helpful information, including ballast charts. Take some time and read it cover to cover, as most who do usually comments about the things they learned while reading it which is new information to them.
You are just beginning the journey with your machine. The vast majority of advice given here on GTT is solely to help others, especially those who are new owners, avoid making mistakes or putting themselves into danger. Heed advice or ignore it, it's entirely up to you. It's your machine to use or misuse as you desire.
Lifting snow with the FEL is one thing and depending upon the temps, you can get a bucket load which might approach the capacity of the loader, but its unlikely. How you lift things and the weight of the object are just part of the equation with rear ballast. Ballast is about balance of the machine. A properly ballasted machine is a well balanced machine. It's also a machine which is much safer and far less likely to be damaged.
""I know snow isn't that heavy, but I am not sure I will ever need rear ballast for the things I will be lifting. I had the forks on with 7 totes piled on them. They were heavy and filled with oils and such. At first I was like I don't know if I will be able to lift this, but it didn't even struggle nor did I feel worried about it tipping.""
How much does a large limb which a storm might brings down weigh? You have no idea how you will be using the tractor as time goes on. One of the most common things which newer owners of equipment will tell us is that they found themselves using their tractors and equipment in ways which they couldn't even imagine, nor had they ever planned or anticipated.
Often, they are surprised by the projects they find for their tractors and readily admit they never imagined they would use their tractors in ways which they now often do. How will that be for you? It's hard to say but to think you won't be lifting heavy items is unrealistic.
The entire point of ballast is to balance the machine front to rear. As a tractor sits without the FEL and without anything on the 3ph, it;s relatively balanced from an engineering design perspective. The moment you add the FEL, the machine is nose heavy. Add any weight to the bucket or pallet forks, its very unbalanced on the front of the machine.
Experience will make you aware of these things. We don't advocate for ballast for any reasons other than operator safety and machine longevity. I carry a MINIMUM of 450 pounds of rear ballast on my 3ph carry all and my tractor already has the Mauser cab, which adds 425 pounds directly over the axle on the operator station.
During times of heavy use, I have gotten the rear ballast up to 900 pounds. When I was was building a road with crushed aggregate using the FEL and box blade, the tractor ballast stayed at 900 pounds the entire project.
Without ballast, you are putting the front axle of your tractor under severe strain when lifting heavy loads. Eventually, it will cause damage. Incidentally, if you were to experience front axle failure while under warranty, you can be assured you would be asked at some point how much rear ballast you were using when the damage occurred. If you were to indicate you didn't need any ballast, you very well could be in for a challenge on your warranty claim. Why risk any damage when the owners and operators manual is very clear about the need for rear ballast?
The owners / operators manual is filled with a lot of actually interesting and helpful information, including ballast charts. Take some time and read it cover to cover, as most who do usually comments about the things they learned while reading it which is new information to them.
You are just beginning the journey with your machine. The vast majority of advice given here on GTT is solely to help others, especially those who are new owners, avoid making mistakes or putting themselves into danger. Heed advice or ignore it, it's entirely up to you. It's your machine to use or misuse as you desire.
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3,025 Posts
Congratulations glad you are enjoying. With my Heavy Hitch on loaded with suit case weights I have not had any issues with trailer up forcing the 3PH. I am sure if I dropped a heavy skid on the back it could pop it up. But when I have been doing mulch etc. even me standing on the back edge does nit pop the front with the weights on.
you can add a receiver to the back of a ballast box also. Their are a couple of threads on here with folks complaining about cheap front rims that have cracked. Yup they didn’t use ballast, if they cracked the rims I am sure they have done wonders for their axles.
you can add a receiver to the back of a ballast box also. Their are a couple of threads on here with folks complaining about cheap front rims that have cracked. Yup they didn’t use ballast, if they cracked the rims I am sure they have done wonders for their axles.
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93 Posts
Well I guess I need to ramp up the rear ballast thoughts again. I was looking up many ideas before I even took ownership but after the dealer said I wouldn't need any for the work I'm planning on doing. I can see how loaded tires can help but having weight sticking off the 3 point would be best. The 6 or 7 hours ive put on my tractor so far has almost all been plowing snow. I haven't felt unsafe in the least with this thing wanting to tip. Do I plan on putting it to more work than I have, Absolutely. I just started to feel safe with what the dealer had told me about rear ballast.
It’s one of those things where you’re good until you’re in thouble
This is why I like having a hitch under my ballast box. It would have to be a damn big upset before the tongue can move the 600 lbs. box appreciably. If the tractor isn't applying downforce, let gravity do it!
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93 Posts
I am planning on having a hitch at the bottom of my ballast box that is "imbedded" in the concrete.
I'd be careful if the hitch will have only concrete connecting it to the tractor. Concrete hates tension loads and towing is all about tension loads. If you're talking about building the concrete block on top of an existing tow frame for a 3ph, that can work. But if you're intending on just sinking a receiver into the concrete as it cures, that's wouldn't work so well. The 1025R is rated to tow 7,000 lbs. (Not that I'd want to try that on the 3ph...I'm sure that's the rating for towing off the back plate as the tongue load plus ballast would be excessive for the 3ph on a 1025R to lift.) But I have pulled a ton or two off the 3ph to reposition full-size trailers and the like.
Not sure where you're getting 7000 lbs from... my manual lists the maximum drawbar load at 2165 lbs.
In either case, that's a lot of weight for a 1500 lb tractor to move, and more importantly, stop.
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93 Posts
I'm planning on taking something like this picture and building a wood mold around it and attaching a 2" receiver extension tube to this frame and having it stick outside the mold. This will allow the frame to take the brunt of the forces. But allow me to leave the bottom of the ballast flat to be able to sit it on wheels or something without too much worry and not have it rock.
It's amazing what they get for those steel ballast boxes to fill with concrete. I do have a fab shop at my disposal so I guess I could get real fancy and make my own.
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My 1025r was purchased without the backhoe. Due to this, they said it was their policy that I had to buy a ballast box. The added price (around $300-350) wasnt a deal breaker so I easily accepted their word.
Well let me tell you, you most definitely will need it. While I do not often use the bucket for any heavy lifting, I di make sure I have my box attached, especially when I swap out to use the pallet forks.
As for using the bucket for snow removal, Ive done that as well and like Sulley has mentioned, moving snow in 25 degree weather is 100 times different than when its 35+ degrees out. That wet snow is deceiving, and can easily lift the back wheels off the ground if you try to take too big of a bite. Ask me how I know (and then quickly drove to the garage to grab my ballast box)
Overall, I know I have somewhere around 300+ pounds of chains in there, plus 6 42 pound weights I hang off of it. Most of the time I leave the weights off as I just need a little weight in the back but, any time the forks go on, I fully load the box with the weights.
At the end of the day though, slow and steady is the way to go in keeping you and your machine safe.
Well let me tell you, you most definitely will need it. While I do not often use the bucket for any heavy lifting, I di make sure I have my box attached, especially when I swap out to use the pallet forks.
As for using the bucket for snow removal, Ive done that as well and like Sulley has mentioned, moving snow in 25 degree weather is 100 times different than when its 35+ degrees out. That wet snow is deceiving, and can easily lift the back wheels off the ground if you try to take too big of a bite. Ask me how I know (and then quickly drove to the garage to grab my ballast box)
Overall, I know I have somewhere around 300+ pounds of chains in there, plus 6 42 pound weights I hang off of it. Most of the time I leave the weights off as I just need a little weight in the back but, any time the forks go on, I fully load the box with the weights.
At the end of the day though, slow and steady is the way to go in keeping you and your machine safe.
I just use a Backhoe for ballast ;-) Seriously, I will have to come up with something, because the backhoe will not alway be attached. I do have 110 gallons of beet juice in the rear tires (1210 pounds?).
I think it will be a good project to make a ballast box.
Do people use water tanks for ballast? I suppose the water would get pretty gross if it didn't get changed out a lot. Plus, water is not very dense.
I've thought about pea gravel and pavers, thinking they would be good, cheap, and less permanent than concrete.
How much rear ballast should I actually have? I just looked it up in the (460 FEL) manual, and it says that I need 1320 pounds on the 3pt hitch for ballast. It also says liquid filled tires are not sufficeint for FEL work.
I think it will be a good project to make a ballast box.
Do people use water tanks for ballast? I suppose the water would get pretty gross if it didn't get changed out a lot. Plus, water is not very dense.
I've thought about pea gravel and pavers, thinking they would be good, cheap, and less permanent than concrete.
How much rear ballast should I actually have? I just looked it up in the (460 FEL) manual, and it says that I need 1320 pounds on the 3pt hitch for ballast. It also says liquid filled tires are not sufficeint for FEL work.
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1,568 Posts
Hi csnyder750! All great advice and the only thing I read that concerned me is using the float mode all the time to put the bucket down. If for some reason you have a full bucket and hit the float mode while backing up, you are opening yourself up to all kinds of potential posibilities of tipping over. The same with a empty bucket. Right now you have been doing it, by being in a some what controlled environment. By that I mean level ground with no obstacles in the way.
You will find that with time and a little practice keeping your hand on the joystick and lowering the bucket while backing up, you will get a feel to where the bucket is. Plus you are in control and are not relying on the machine to do it. It only takes a second to glance at the bucket and to look back behind you again. You won't even notice it after a while. It will become second nature to you.
Its just like backing up a vehicle. You use both side mirrors and the rear view and nowadays we have backup cameras that people rely to much on.
Just want you to stay safe and enjoy your new toy. Like Sully said its your's to do as you want, we just want everyone to stay safe and go home at the end of the day!
Good luck!
WB
You will find that with time and a little practice keeping your hand on the joystick and lowering the bucket while backing up, you will get a feel to where the bucket is. Plus you are in control and are not relying on the machine to do it. It only takes a second to glance at the bucket and to look back behind you again. You won't even notice it after a while. It will become second nature to you.
Its just like backing up a vehicle. You use both side mirrors and the rear view and nowadays we have backup cameras that people rely to much on.
Just want you to stay safe and enjoy your new toy. Like Sully said its your's to do as you want, we just want everyone to stay safe and go home at the end of the day!
Good luck!
WB
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10,751 Posts
Rolled on it's side
So as not to take away from the other threads I thought I'd start a new one. It happened to me tonight as I was wrapping things up for the day. I painted most of the day and only have 2 more areas to paint but have to let it dry till morning so I quit...just not soon enough. Seeing as I had to...
www.greentractortalk.com
Also look who started it...me.
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