Almost rolled my tractor today

14197 Views 96 Replies 48 Participants Last post by theduke, 10 mo ago

agurkas

Discussion Starter · Sep 24, 2021

Was helping my neighbor to move some logs. Tires filled with rimguard, ballast box filled with sand. Learned the lesson today about how tippy these tractors are (note, I don't even have 2 hours on my 1023E). I was moving ~24"X6' pine log chained to the FEL and max 10" from the ground while traveling. Path I took looked like a non-event. Boy did I have oh crap moment when the tractor started tipping and I instinctively lowered the FEL. I guess the next purchase will be spacers and wheel weights.

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Festus

· #21 · Sep 25, 2021

I’m a relative rookie too, only have 200 hours tractor experience, so others please either affirm or contradict my opinion…
I don’t like your instinct to jump off the tractor. If ROPS is up, have the seat belt on and ride it out.

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BOBL

· #22 · Sep 25, 2021

Worse than having the ballast up on the 3 point is not properly adjusting the 3 point and allowing the weight to move side to side.

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Kbar

· #23 · Sep 25, 2021

Festus said:
I’m a relative rookie too, only have 200 hours tractor experience, so others please either affirm or contradict my opinion…
I don’t like your instinct to jump off the tractor. If ROPS is up, have the seat belt on and ride it out.

The Rops is designed for a contained operator. Basically if your seatbelt is on, then the Rops should protect you in a rollover. Jumping off brings variables to the table that can be horrific. I’d personally rather get thrown on my side and wack my head in the dirt than get trapped or maned from attempting a jump off.

You guys need to understand and something
Operating farm equipment or any other ground engaging equipment isn’t for everyone. Being in the excavation industry I see red flags when someone admits to rolling something over. They dont get to work on my crew. Period. I’ve never rolled over any equipment and have a good feel for a machines tipping point but it boils down to instinct most times. Don’t put your machine in a situation that is sketchy and know how to react to any shenanigans at a moments notice. This stuff is not for everyone. Proof is in the morning traffic

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Steve-1026r

· #24 · Sep 25, 2021

Festus said:
I’m a relative rookie too, only have 200 hours tractor experience, so others please either affirm or contradict my opinion…
I don’t like your instinct to jump off the tractor. If ROPS is up, have the seat belt on and ride it out.

The answer is sometimes. when working in woods, seat belt on, you roll it and a tree could wind up exactly where you are making it fatal. Ros rops does nothing. Reality is when in woods you need not just a roll bar but a forwards bar to prevent a crush zone between rops and steering wheel aka the seat area. Open field, hill, yes rops up, belt on. Woods, judgment call

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trav

· #25 · Sep 25, 2021

Festus said:
I’m a relative rookie too, only have 200 hours tractor experience, so others please either affirm or contradict my opinion…
I don’t like your instinct to jump off the tractor. If ROPS is up, have the seat belt on and ride it out.

I agree it's the wise thing to do, especially on uneven or sloped ground.

My buddy's dad was killed when the forklift he was backing off of a trailer tipped over and the rops pinned his neck.

An awful thing about it is that he was making a delivery to my buddy's work and had chose that delivery probably for the chance to see his son. Thankfully (I guess?) my friend wasn't there at the moment and didn't see it happen.

I will never forget that day after spending time that night with my friend trying to help him deal with the shock. If his dad had been wearing the seat belt he probably would have only had minor injuries if any.

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Festus

· #26 · Sep 25, 2021

Glad your OK and glad you’re humble enough to post your experience so others can learn from it.
It may seem like you get a lot of criticism, but it’s just tough love because the consequences are so great.

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Treefarmer

· #27 · Sep 25, 2021

trav said:
I agree it's the wise thing to do, especially on uneven or sloped ground.

My buddy's dad was killed when the forklift he was backing off of a trailer tipped over and the rops pinned his neck.

An awful thing about it is that he was making a delivery to my buddy's work and had chose that delivery probably for the chance to see his son. Thankfully (I guess?) my friend wasn't there at the moment and didn't see it happen.

I will never forget that day after spending time that night with my friend trying to help him deal with the shock. If his dad had been wearing the seat belt he probably would have only had minor injuries if any.

ROPS and seat belts work together. Used individually they are not nearly as safe or effective and in some circumstances can be detrimental. Personally, I don't move fast enough to be able to clear a tractor on the way over so I use both ROPS and belt. Have others survived without a belt, heck yes. Do the statistics say use both- double heck yes.[/QUOTE]

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trav

· #28 · Sep 25, 2021

Treefarmer said:
ROPS and seat belts work together. Used individually they are not nearly as safe or effective and in some circumstances can be detrimental. Personally, I don't move fast enough to be able to clear a tractor on the way over so I use both ROPS and belt. Have others survived without a belt, heck yes. Do the statistics say use both- double heck yes.

[/QUOTE]
I bailed off of a sport quad on a steep side hill (you know it's steep when a 400ex goes over sideways) in a woods and just missed getting hit by the thing but I was much quicker and more nimble then than I am now 😂

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MarkEagleUSA

· #29 · Sep 25, 2021

While it's not always possible or even advisable, another trick is to back down the hill. This helps limit the effect of the pivoting front axle and gravity. Most of my yard is an 15°-18° slope front to rear. I've found that when using the bucket or grapple in the woods up in back that it feels much more stable to climb the hill with the load in front of me and back down the hill (the load is always up hill). @Kbar's suggestion of offsetting the load is a good one, and @BOBL's point about limiting the sway on the 3-point is quite valid.

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W9GFO

· #30 · Sep 25, 2021

Heavy weight in the FEL + side slope = bad news.

Even 5 degrees is bad - that is steeper than an ADA wheelchair ramp is allowed to be. 10 Degrees, don't even try it.

If you absolutely must carry weight on a side slope, have the bucket touching, or very nearly touching the ground.

Wheel spacers and wheel weights may slightly improve the situation, but they will not make it safe. In other words, if your side slope is even close to how steep you say, there is nothing you can do to make it safe to carry heavy stuff in your FEL.

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theduke

· #31 · Sep 25, 2021

Great Point. Mark E.

Most look at a tractor as 4 wheels planted to the ground.

NOT

Understanding that the front axle pivots is Key to safety

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ClydeLogan

· #32 · Sep 25, 2021

The 500 pounds of sand plus the weight of the ballast box should be reasonably close to the JD recommendations for rear ballast for the 1-series.

I am confused by two statements that seem contradictory, (1) the bucket with the log was 10 inches off the ground, versus (2) the bucket was obstructing your forward view.

And last, what age is this neighbor you refer to as elderly?

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Treefarmer

· #33 · Sep 25, 2021

W9GFO said:
Heavy weight in the FEL + side slope = bad news.

Even 5 degrees is bad - that is steeper than an ADA wheelchair ramp is allowed to be. 10 Degrees, don't even try it.

If you absolutely must carry weight on a side slope, have the bucket touching, or very nearly touching the ground.

One nice thing about a grapple is that if you clamp a log tight and carry it low, it actually helps stabilize the tractor. Forks don't have quite the same effect as the log can pivot or rock back and forth on the forks.

In either case, low is better than high.

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W9GFO

· #34 · Sep 25, 2021

ClydeLogan said:
The 500 pounds of sand plus the weight of the ballast box should be reasonably close to the JD recommendations for rear ballast for the 1-series.

I am confused by two statements that seem contradictory, (1) the bucket with the log was 10 inches off the ground, versus (2) the bucket was obstructing your forward view.

And last, what age is this neighbor you refer to as elderly?

10" off the ground is 9-1/2" too high.

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Jimmy Walker

· #35 · Sep 25, 2021

Wheel spacers and tire fluid will definitely improve the situation. Here are some more ideas.
Add a quick hitch. The weight moving farther back will amplify the counter balance effect and the hitch adds to your ballast as well.
Also check that the ballast box isn't shifting side to side behind you.
Make sure you have a full tank of diesel and if possible, keep the tank on uphill side while traveling.
Also check your tire pressures. If one of your rear tires on the downhill side compressed too far, it could start the rollover.
Remember to stay in 4x4 and take it slow.

Reactions: 4

SulleyBear

· #36 · Sep 25, 2021

Main thing is that the new operator, Agurkas, learned a very important lesson about the limits of his new equipment and now, for the foreseeable future, he is likely to think MUCH more about such movements than he did prior to this experience.

It's easy to sit here and Monday morning Quarterback the experience of another and try and explain it or even be critical or judgemental of it. But the truth is, even experienced operators are surprised when they reach the limits of these small machines, because they are quite unstable and have a difficult to determine Center of Gravity, until you get that feeling which is the "pucker moment", etc. Usually, that pucker moment happens before we think it would / should with the equipment. It's important to be aware of that threshold.

Rear wheel spacers are very important. In fact, I would go as wide as you can based upon the equipment you use with your tractor. If you have a MMM, then talk to the wheel spacer maker and obtain the maximum width which will work. If you don't have a MMM, then go with the 3" per side and the machine's stability improves significantly.

PLEASE Be very careful jumping from equipment, etc. I know some have done it successfully and I am very glad they were successful. But the simple reality is its best to use the safety equipment and avoid sketchy situations. Side hills are treacherous on these machines. Even slight side hills. Add in FEL loads and other such issues and the situation instantly becomes even more dangerous.

None of us want to see anyone injured or anyone's machine damaged. I guess we can be thankful that Agurkas kept the machine right side up and already, with 2 hours of machine time, is assessing the use of the new machine more carefully.

One last thought, most of us see our capabilities at more than they truly are, or perhaps what they used to be when we were younger. But age changes things, it makes us slower and also have less strength, which is hard to admit and even harder to accept for most of us.

We should commend Agurkus for sharing the experience and for him desiring to learn what mistakes to not make again. I often wonder how many who are critical of others who share such experiences, have their own moments and simply don't post them.

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ElevatorGuy

· #37 · Sep 25, 2021

I never run my ballast box in any position but all the way up, Never had an issue or even given that a second though. Pine isn’t that heavy but 24” is big either way. However with two hours on the machine and the fact that the loader picked it, I’d say this is just an inexperienced operator having and oh **** moment.

Dr Maphesto

· #38 · Sep 25, 2021

Treefarmer said:
One nice thing about a grapple is that if you clamp a log tight and carry it low, it actually helps stabilize the tractor.

I disagree with that.
Pivoting front axles prevents front tires from adding any stability until reaching limit of pivot.
Stability originates from the rear tire contact with ground due to solid rear axle.
Weight in bucket actually reduces contact weight of rear tires thus reducing stability regardless of bucket height. (unless bucket is contacting the ground)

Pedals2Paddles

· #39 · Sep 25, 2021

OP is a smart guy. To be brand new and recognize the immediate response needs to be dropping the loader to the ground is really good. That is the right thing to do and isn't in a manual.

I agree in almost all circumstances, seatbelt + rops is the safest place to be if this happens. The rare exceptions like being crushed into a tree are difficult to strategize since they just become an elongated series of what ifs.

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Pedals2Paddles

· #40 · Sep 25, 2021

I usually have my 3 point weight bracket all the way up for maneuverability and convenience. It is fine that way for almost everything. But if I'm working a heavy load approaching the limits, I lower it a bit below halfway. It lowers the CG a bit, and moves the CG back in inch or so maximizing the ballast effect.

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