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A short time ago I started a thread here Titled "High Mileage-Really"

I was looking long & hard to find a long bed pickup truck in halfway decent shape to pick up lumber, etc. locally for some DIY projects here at home. Quite by accident my wife spotted one on a used car lot in a town we were passing through. To make a long story short, it turned out to be a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT. The dealer allowed me to take it all the way to my mechanic for an inspection. Everything appears to be in reasonable condition for a ten year old truck. It appears to be running well so far.

On the day I went to pick it up from the dealer, all the fix up work that I asked for as part of the deal was done. But they did not get to do the oil change. So the dealer gave me a card so I could take it about a mile down the road & have the oil & filter changed at no cost to me. Got to the quick change place & they drove it into the service bay & did the change. I asked the manager what weight oil they installed & I was told it was 10W40.

Here's my question. I intend to change the oil again as soon as I put on 500 miles or so. I want to use a High Mileage oil. The owners manual states that the oil specified for the 4.7 ltr. engine is 5W30. The one drawback to this truck is the high mileage which is at 213K . My thinking is that at this point with 213k the better oil to use would be 10W40, because lets face it, I don't know the maintenance record of the vehicle over the long haul. It could well be that the previous long term owner used 5W30. Or they could have used another weight.

I'm tempted to use the 10W40, but the owners manual has strong words on varying the oil weight. Personally I think the language in the owners manual is nothing more than legal mumbo jumbo against repair claims, which in my case cannot be made. Dodge Ram is not my first choice. I hunted for a ford F150 long bed & just got tired of the hunt. Opportunity came with the Dodge & I took it. So what's your opinion on the oil. I'm not sure other than I want to use one of the High Mileage formulas.

Tried to post some pictures, but I haven't figured out how. Sorry
 

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If it were me I would use the specified oil in the manual, perhaps going to synthetic as IIRC you don't plan on putting tons of miles on the truck and it's my belief that synthetics handle longer change intervals and shorter more infrequent use between them.

"High mileage" oils are bunk IMHO Stick with a quality name brand oil and you'll be fine.
 

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^^^ This. Very much so. ^^^
 

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It seems now that the oil weight specified is more for fuel mileage than anything else. As long as it spins fast enough to start easy, I'd stay with the 10w-40 and keep it in there a lot longer than 500 miles.
 
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Waaaayyyy back in the day.... I had myself an old beat up Ford F150. Had a nice 400 cu. in. engine in it and had been owned by a propane company so it was converted to run on propane. Anyway, it had something like 220,000 mile son it when I bought it for a song (as in, $400). The only problem with it was that it ate a bit of oil.

It was supposed to use 10W-40 but me, being the rocket surgeon that I am, decided that if I fed it some straight 40 weight at an oil change, it wouldn't eat so much. So that's what I did.

And the next morning I drove it to work. When I parked I noticed that was a huge cloud of blue smoke. And then I looked closer and saw a huge puddle of oil forming on the parking lot under my truck. Of course, my immediate thought was that *I* had done this soooo... after work I changed the oil right there in the parking lot. And I drove home. And then I drove to work again the next day and, on my way home the oil light came on. I crawled home and popped the hood. Sure enough, out of oil. HOW CAN THIS BE?

So, fed up with it I took it to the local garage the next morning. They looked at during the day and called me mid-afternoon to let me know that pretty much every seal in the thing was leaking. Their thinking was that some idiot must have put a heavier weight oil in it than they were supposed to.

It wasn't worth rebuilding the engine so I picked it up, drove it home, promptly sold it and bought myself a Datsun pickup. :laugh: After all of that, I stick with what the manufacturer recommends.
 

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Your 4.7 is an overhead cam engine. It's important to have oil at the very top of the engine on start-up hence the SAE 5W-30 oil requirement. You're probably going to be ok in SC with the 10W-40 as the ambient temperatures should allow the oil to flow quickly and easily. I'd keep an eye on the oil level but would recommend you switch back to 5W-30 at the next service interval. I'd also suggest a synthetic blend or full synthetic oil.
 

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I would suggest that you have this conversation with your mechanic. You trusted him enough to go over the vehicle and give you input on its current state - trust him again to give you guidance on what oil is appropriate to run in that motor.
 

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Superglide pretty much nailed it.

The newer motors have been engineered much differently than the old small blocks and 6's.
Everything has tighter tolerances, and is set up to work oil flowing in tighter clearances.

Even the dadgum lifters are persnickity about flow rate.
I found out the hard way on the 4.0 in my Jeep.

The 4.0 is just a rehashed 232/258 right? Nope.
I always just used 15-40 in the summer and 10-30 in the winter with the old CJ's.
Guess what I did?
Sounded like a hundred little elves hammering away on start up.
A quick call to a buddy that works at the dealer as a tech, had a good laugh.
"Don't do that, ya stupid Farmer!!":lolol:

If you want some good scoop on oil, head over to Bobistheoilguy, and ask.
There are some seriously geeky, oil geeks over there, along with actual petro engineers, that can explain the how's and whatzits.

The thing is, there is really nothing gained by going with 10-40 over 5-30 anyhow.
Literally, one just flows better at temp. Modern oils have advanced right along with other tech, and it's really kind of nuts, how all the rules have changed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I was not too concerned when the oil change shop put in the 10W40 even though the engine filler cap clearly says to use 5W30. The reason for
not being concerned was because I had been thinking it should have the heavier weight due to engine wear. But after reading all the responses here so far, it look like I should drain out the 10W30 & punt in the 5W30. I'm ok with doing that, but now it becomes a question as to the oil itself. Should I use a Syn., or a blend, or the old fashioned stuff straight out of the ground?

I once read where Syn. oils gave no advantage in high mileage engines, but I can't recall the reason why. I've never used a Syn. or a Syn. blend in any engine I've ever owned. I guess I'm stuck in "Old tech" mode. Is it a mistake not to go to Syn's.? As far as operating temps down here in the south, we have brutal heat in the summer with high humidity. A average day in summer is 95 degrees with a night temp of 80-85. Winter can bring anything from a low of 20 degrees to a high of 75-80 in the daytime. Its all over the place. So oil flow in a cold engine is really not an issue.

I do know Syn. oils stick to surfaces far better than conventional, so on cold start ups you have instant lubrication & protection. I guess that alone makes it worth it. Does anyone here think that running a Syn. oil for the first time ever in a engine with 213K on it is a problem? And will the Syn. be affected by mixing with what's left in the engine when I make the switch from conventional to Syn. Thanks.


:munch:
 

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I've never used anything other than plain ole 10-40 Pennzoil. However, my uncle is an unbelievable engine guru and he swears by full synthetic Mobil 1. He would say put it in right now, regardless of mileage.

FWIW- I'm mechanically inclined because of my father. I've been raised to fix my own stuff and figure it out as you go, if you don't know what you're doing (not sure about that policy, lol). I use conventional oil because Dad swears you don't need to spend the $$ on synthetic. However, my first car was a father-son project with complete engine overhaul. Who came to do the reassembly? My uncle. So....
 

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I was not too concerned when the oil change shop put in the 10W40 even though the engine filler cap clearly says to use 5W30. The reason for
not being concerned was because I had been thinking it should have the heavier weight due to engine wear. But after reading all the responses here so far, it look like I should drain out the 10W30 & punt in the 5W30. I'm ok with doing that, but now it becomes a question as to the oil itself. Should I use a Syn., or a blend, or the old fashioned stuff straight out of the ground?

I once read where Syn. oils gave no advantage in high mileage engines, but I can't recall the reason why. I've never used a Syn. or a Syn. blend in any engine I've ever owned. I guess I'm stuck in "Old tech" mode. Is it a mistake not to go to Syn's.? As far as operating temps down here in the south, we have brutal heat in the summer with high humidity. A average day in summer is 95 degrees with a night temp of 80-85. Winter can bring anything from a low of 20 degrees to a high of 75-80 in the daytime. Its all over the place. So oil flow in a cold engine is really not an issue.

I do know Syn. oils stick to surfaces far better than conventional, so on cold start ups you have instant lubrication & protection. I guess that alone makes it worth it. Does anyone here think that running a Syn. oil for the first time ever in a engine with 213K on it is a problem? And will the Syn. be affected by mixing with what's left in the engine when I make the switch from conventional to Syn. Thanks.


:munch:
Maddog,

From my limited knowledge, and info gleaned from the real Geeks and experts...
Yes, and No.

The Synthetics big advantage is the longer carbon chain...the stuff that keeps metal from grinding together.
Because it's a longer chain, it takes more time under the same stresses, to chop it up, and lose the cushion.

From there it's temp stability. Synthetics don't care if it's 110 or -10. They are going to do the same thing.

Finally, it's all about the additive package.
The stuff that neutralizes acids, and combustion byproducts that eat steel, bearings, and break down aforementioned carbon chains, and solids that cushion.

Dino vs synthetic, is a matter of knowing where you are at in the motor.
Because of the longer service life, Synthetics tend to get dosed with a longer lasting Add pack.

If the motor long in the tooth, and has lots of blowby, the add pack is going to be overwhelmed, long before the oil itself is broken down.
The only way to know is a used oil analysis.

No point in spending the extra money, when you can't take advantage of the synth.

Literally, run 3,000 miles with a regular old Dino from one of the better known guys, and send it in.
The info coming back might have you switching to synthetic, because the thing is hardly worn, or sticking with Dino and more frequent changes...or looking to offload the truck.

Blackstone gets 25 bucks for analysis.
It can save you many times that much in the long run, and will show ugly problems that are lurking and waiting, for the worst time to say hello.

If it was me, I'd stick to Dino, run the labs, and know for sure.
On a little used truck, with a solid motor, there are plenty of other things that can go wrong, and are more expensive than a motor.
A guy can dump a lot of good money, taking care of one end, and the other making it all worth nothing, when it croaks.

Plain old Dino is hard to beat these days.
Especially when the Tranny and axles, usually wont hold up as long, as a solid motor.

I'd worry more on the rest of the driveline, once I knew the Motor was solid.

Just my .02 and all that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Maddog,

From my limited knowledge, and info gleaned from the real Geeks and experts...
Yes, and No.

The Synthetics big advantage is the longer carbon chain...the stuff that keeps metal from grinding together.
Because it's a longer chain, it takes more time under the same stresses, to chop it up, and lose the cushion.

From there it's temp stability. Synthetics don't care if it's 110 or -10. They are going to do the same thing.

Finally, it's all about the additive package.
The stuff that neutralizes acids, and combustion byproducts that eat steel, bearings, and break down aforementioned carbon chains, and solids that cushion.

Dino vs synthetic, is a matter of knowing where you are at in the motor.
Because of the longer service life, Synthetics tend to get dosed with a longer lasting Add pack.

If the motor long in the tooth, and has lots of blowby, the add pack is going to be overwhelmed, long before the oil itself is broken down.
The only way to know is a used oil analysis.

No point in spending the extra money, when you can't take advantage of the synth.

Literally, run 3,000 miles with a regular old Dino from one of the better known guys, and send it in.
The info coming back might have you switching to synthetic, because the thing is hardly worn, or sticking with Dino and more frequent changes...or looking to offload the truck.

Blackstone gets 25 bucks for analysis.
It can save you many times that much in the long run, and will show ugly problems that are lurking and waiting, for the worst time to say hello.

If it was me, I'd stick to Dino, run the labs, and know for sure.
On a little used truck, with a solid motor, there are plenty of other things that can go wrong, and are more expensive than a motor.
A guy can dump a lot of good money, taking care of one end, and the other making it all worth nothing, when it croaks.

Plain old Dino is hard to beat these days.
Especially when the Tranny and axles, usually wont hold up as long, as a solid motor.

I'd worry more on the rest of the driveline, once I knew the Motor was solid.

Just my .02 and all that.
I agree with what you are saying. The best thing to do is have a used oil analysis done. Can you tell me more about Blackstone. Is that the full name?
 

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Kenny nailed it.

Just drop them a line and they will send the sample kit.
You pay when you send the sample in. Couple of days later..BAM! Everything you wanted to know, and would rather not know, will come back.

Bearing wear, fuel residues, coolant leaks, blowby, all shows up like going to the doc, and bleeding into the little vial.

They also do Tranny juice analysis...300K on a gas burner isn't bad, if it was a highway mule.
300K as town truck, and it's a different game.

Good luck!
 

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i use a diesel rated 15w40 in everything even if it specs 5w20 in a ford........... super oil and full of detergents. but you know everybody has a opinion:greentractorride:
 

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I wouldn't use 15/40 on a newer Ford Diesel. The injectors use a high pressure(4000psi) oil system to pop off the injector. Using the wrong oil can damage the injectors. You can read more here:
Questions & Answers Regarding Powerstroke Cold Start Problems and Injector Issues


Dodge Hemis can also have premature cam failures due to using the wrong oil. If the manufacture went to the trouble of printing the spec RIGHT ON THE OIL CAP, its probably for a good reason. I wouldn't worry about having the wrong stuff in there for one oil change cycle but over an extended period of time it will cause damage. If I paid for an oil change and they put the wrong stuff in I would ask for them to correct it.

As for synthetic vs regular oil, synthetic on new vehicle benefits the person you sell the car to, unless you are the type of person that keeps it forever. Synthetic on an older vehicle won't really help anything and in some instances can cause problems. An engine with a small oil leak can suddenly turn into a large oil leak when switched to synthetic due to it being a lighter viscosity. Also a worn engine that had low(but acceptable) oil pressure when switched to synthetic can have too low of an oil pressure which can cause problems on engines that rely on oil pressure for variable cam timing like the Ford 5.4.

I don't believe in extended oil change intervals for synthetic oil either. You still have a build up of contaminates and acids in the oil even if the oil is still good.

The best reason to run synthetic, and the reason I do in some of my vehicles, is stability in extreme temps. I often leave my 1998 Jeep Cherokee at the airport for 7 days at a time. It might be -30C when I fly back in. With synthetic oil it cranks over WAY easier than with regular oil. Also if I lived in a really hot environment and towed like I do now I would run a synthetic oil in my truck for hot weather towing.

My Jeep runs 5/30 synthetic year round. My truck usually runs 15/40 Valvoline(or whatever name brand was on sale that day) in the summer and NAPA 10/30 synthetic in the winter for easy starts. At work in Northern Alberta I switch everything to 0w30 synthetic in the winter, except for the Firehall equipment as it stays inside. Wife's Durango uses 5w20 regular oil year round as its in the garage in the winter.

FYI, Walmart usually has the best price on synthetic oils.
 

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I've been told, when buying used, that you do not know the maintenance history on, that one should use a non-detergent oil. If the previous owner(s) had been running non-d, and you begin using a detergent oil, it can begin clogging up filters quickly, or lead to other issues, as the build ups are cleaned. One mechanic even said things could begin leaking around deals, bearings, etc., if a high mileage run on non-d was then switched to d oil.

Might not matter much on a lower mileage vehicle, but on something 10 years old, that has had some miles put on it, I'd be asking what your mechanic's thoughts were on that.

I'm not into the synthetic oils. I change oil often, as it is relatively cheap maintenance insurance. I'm not sure that oil breakdown is a big issue, these days, but oil does get dirty, and I like to drain it and get fresh in. I do that every 3K miles on my F-250, with the 7.3L diesel, and every 3-5K on the F-150 farm truck. And if the F-150 has a year that the trips to the feed store, etc., do not put 3K on it, I change to oil once a year, no matter the mileage. (Rare that it doesn't get the miles, but it has happened.)

Just my $0.02. Won't buy you much.
 

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I wouldn't use 15/40 on a newer Ford Diesel. The injectors use a high pressure(4000psi) oil system to pop off the injector. Using the wrong oil can damage the injectors. You can read more here:
Questions & Answers Regarding Powerstroke Cold Start Problems and Injector Issues


Dodge Hemis can also have premature cam failures due to using the wrong oil. If the manufacture went to the trouble of printing the spec RIGHT ON THE OIL CAP, its probably for a good reason. I wouldn't worry about having the wrong stuff in there for one oil change cycle but over an extended period of time it will cause damage. If I paid for an oil change and they put the wrong stuff in I would ask for them to correct it.

As for synthetic vs regular oil, synthetic on new vehicle benefits the person you sell the car to, unless you are the type of person that keeps it forever. Synthetic on an older vehicle won't really help anything and in some instances can cause problems. An engine with a small oil leak can suddenly turn into a large oil leak when switched to synthetic due to it being a lighter viscosity. Also a worn engine that had low(but acceptable) oil pressure when switched to synthetic can have too low of an oil pressure which can cause problems on engines that rely on oil pressure for variable cam timing like the Ford 5.4.

I don't believe in extended oil change intervals for synthetic oil either. You still have a build up of contaminates and acids in the oil even if the oil is still good.

The best reason to run synthetic, and the reason I do in some of my vehicles, is stability in extreme temps. I often leave my 1998 Jeep Cherokee at the airport for 7 days at a time. It might be -30C when I fly back in. With synthetic oil it cranks over WAY easier than with regular oil. Also if I lived in a really hot environment and towed like I do now I would run a synthetic oil in my truck for hot weather towing.

My Jeep runs 5/30 synthetic year round. My truck usually runs 15/40 Valvoline(or whatever name brand was on sale that day) in the summer and NAPA 10/30 synthetic in the winter for easy starts. At work in Northern Alberta I switch everything to 0w30 synthetic in the winter, except for the Firehall equipment as it stays inside. Wife's Durango uses 5w20 regular oil year round as its in the garage in the winter.

FYI, Walmart usually has the best price on synthetic oils.

with all do respect there is alot wrong with you statement.. the newer fords 6.7 no longer uses the heui unit which still specd 15w40 injection developed by cat. they use high pressure common rail like all the others. people think there is dino oil and magical synthetic oil made from scratch in a lab.. there is the additive package and then the base oil. which contains hydrocarbon chains. synthetic oil is broken down to remove as much broken hydrocarbon chains as they can which break down and bond with the h20 chains,etc and cause the oil to break down and become corrisive.

synthetic oils remove these broken chains and leaving the good chains. these are the base stock ratings 1-5 5 being the highest rating witch is ester oil. cheaper syn are still a class 3 base stocks

the low viscosty ratings are put in place to satisfy the epa and eek out every last bit of fuel economy. diesel rated oil is heavy duty as a very strong additive package and no synthetic is usally group 3-4 base stocks. they are all rated for gasoline engines. you can also get 10w30 in regular or 5w40 synthetic. its putt through alot more in a turbo diesel then gas motors. very high cylinder pressures and turbos with small oil passages to lube the shafts that spin over 100k rpm. and break down the soot to very tiny bits that wont hurt the engine

yes fords that used the heui system were sensitve to the condition of the oil. a very unpopular unit injection system buy choose what ever oil you wish just putting in my 2 cents.

sorry about the confusing post and misspelled words as i just woke up and an not quite awake yet:greentractorride::flag_of_truce:
 

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i use a diesel rated 15w40 in everything even if it specs 5w20 in a ford........... super oil and full of detergents. but you know everybody has a opinion:greentractorride:
Guess you aren't concerned about the Ford Cam Phasers then......
 

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with all do respect there is alot wrong with you statement.. the newer fords 6.7 no longer uses the heui unit which still specd 15w40 injection developed by cat. they use high pressure common rail like all the others. people think there is dino oil and magical synthetic oil made from scratch in a lab.. there is the additive package and then the base oil. which contains hydrocarbon chains. synthetic oil is broken down to remove as much broken hydrocarbon chains as they can which break down and bond with the h20 chains,etc and cause the oil to break down and become corrisive.

synthetic oils remove these broken chains and leaving the good chains. these are the base stock ratings 1-5 5 being the highest rating witch is ester oil. cheaper syn are still a class 3 base stocks

the low viscosty ratings are put in place to satisfy the epa and eek out every last bit of fuel economy. diesel rated oil is heavy duty as a very strong additive package and no synthetic is usually group 3-4 base stocks. they are all rated for gasoline engines. you can also get 10w30 in regular or 5w40 synthetic. its putt through alot more in a turbo diesel then gas motors. very high cylinder pressures and turbos with small oil passages to lube the shafts that spin over 100k rpm. and break down the soot to very tiny bits that wont hurt the engine

yes fords that used the heui system were sensitve to the condition of the oil. a very unpopular unit injection system buy choose what ever oil you wish just putting in my 2 cents.

sorry about the confusing post and misspelled words as i just woke up and an not quite awake yet:greentractorride::flag_of_truce:

My comments were based on real world experiences from working in a fleet shop with over 300 pickup trucks, 90% Ford, of those its a mixed bag of V10s, 5.4s and a few diesels, mostly 6.0 as we've been fazing out the diesels and going with V10s due to the trouble we've had with the emissions equipment on the diesels. We have 4 ex-Ford dealer techs on staff and the first time one of them saw me putting 15W40 in my 6.0L F550 service truck I got a lesson in injector stiction. Being a HD mechanic I traditionally put 15/40 in anything diesel. Not so anymore. We also typically change 2 sets of cam phazers a week in the shop on the 5.4s, they are particular about their oil. I wouldn't suggest to anyone to deviate from the factory suggested oil on these models.

I have personally broken a cam in Dodge 3.8L. When reading up on it the most common cause for failure was using the wrong oil and Hemis are prone to this as well. It was higher mileage and I don't know what the previous owner used for oil but now I stick with the manufacture's recommendations.

The was a lot of science in your post but nothing to indicate why you think a thicker viscosity oil is better. You can get those same diesel additive packages in a viscosity that is much closer to what the manufacture recommends.
 
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