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Discussion Starter #1
When I pulled the head off of my M, I noticed that there was a bit of calcium buildup in some of the coolant passages.

image.jpeg

What is a good way to clean this out. Not just the stuff on the surface, but the whole block and radiator. NAPA carries a couple of three step cleaning systems, but I'm not sure if it will work in a cooling system which lacks a water pump.

:dunno:
 

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Incase anyone besides me is looking for an answer as well, my local dealership's 'resident old guy' (he started there as a mechanic the same year the twenty series came out) told me that he uses and recommends any quality automotive radiator flush. The key is that flushing process can only be started once the tractor is up to temp enough that the coolant is flowing.
 

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a cheap pre cleaner if you want is vinegar it can sit in there for days. run it to temp several times. if its all apart break out the dremel and you can take the radiator to a radiator shop to be cleaned out:greentractorride:. do they still have radiator shops:dunno::laugh: they do around me and hes great
 

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Around here,,,
radiators and oil filters are in the same category,,, replaceable!! :flag_of_truce:

:laugh:

I would imagine vinegar would be about perfect,,, we must use 5 gallons a year for cleaning,,
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If I hauled it into town and had a professional flush the system, it would still be much cheaper than replacing the radiator. Even the steel reproduction radiators for the M are about $400. For the price of a NOS one, I could just buy another tractor! Besides, the problem is in the engine's cooling passages. I can see into the radiator somewhat and what I can see looks pretty good.

Is there a vinegar to water ratio... Or do I just fill the thing up with vinegar?
 

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straight vinegar is best might still have to use a brush or scraper of some kind to help get it all off:greentractorride:
 

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Another issue with Scale is Thermal Conductivity

The thermal conductivity of a typical lime/scale deposit measured in Btu/hr/ft2/in/oF ranges from three to seven. As a comparison, the thermal conductivity of copper is 2680 and steel is 460. So the build up makes it much harder for the engine to transfer heat to the coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The thermal conductivity of a typical lime/scale deposit measured in Btu/hr/ft2/in/oF ranges from three to seven. As a comparison, the thermal conductivity of copper is 2680 and steel is 460. So the build up makes it much harder for the engine to transfer heat to the coolant.
That is the most scientific answer I have ever gotten outside of an actual science classroom. Bravo!

Before I put the head back on I removed the lower radiator hose and blasted out any loose debris I could with compressed air. Once everything was put back together, I filled, drained, filtered, and refilled the tractor's coolant a few times. At least now it is full of clean coolant. Once I have finished putting my garden in I'll try filling it up with vinegar and see what comes out.
 

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That is the most scientific answer I have ever gotten outside of an actual science classroom. Bravo!

Before I put the head back on I removed the lower radiator hose and blasted out any loose debris I could with compressed air. Once everything was put back together, I filled, drained, filtered, and refilled the tractor's coolant a few times. At least now it is full of clean coolant. Once I have finished putting my garden in I'll try filling it up with vinegar and see what comes out.
Evergreen--now don't hold me to this, but i :think: think that their's 2 different types of vinegar--one is a little more stronger than the other--and costs way more too. the other summer i was messing around with vinegar and different mixes to make a spray to kill unwanted grass--instead of using my regular mix for trying to protect my need puppy-:dunno: jeez--can't or couldn't think of the name round-up--getting old. are u using a mixture of water and antifreeze since ur M has no water pump so it doesn't run hot in the summer--my uncle does for the summer-only water in summer-drains and then puts antifreeze for winter--which hi sets for the wintertime in shed covered up with it's own blanket--believe it or not--he's fussy:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There's at least fifteen different kinds of vinegar... But I'm going to make the assumption that I shouldn't use rice wine vinegar or apple cider vinegar. :mocking: I was going to start with just plain old white vinegar and see how it went.

I run anti-freeze year round with a stabilizing additive normally used in old cars. I forget the name off hand. I used to run a baler behind my M under the July sun all day long without overheating.

As for tucking it in for a long winters nap, that's something I do too! Mostly because the block heater is much more effective if I wrap the hood in a blanket to hold in the heat.
 

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keep in mine it may not make it sparkely clean right away. its a good safe way of cleaning so it may take awhile. when i flush cooling systems with it i drain the system then refill with vinager drive it like normal for about a week then drain and all kinds of crap usually comes out. so its pretty safe which means no harsh chemicals to damage ur system.

good luck. does ur M have a temp gauge? my D did not so i added one. without a load i can run it all day with radiator blocked off with no load just driving it and the temp usaually never get above 150f and my probe is tapped into the very top of the radiator where the temp should be measured as thats were the coolant enters to be cooled.:greentractorride:
 

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Yep, I've got a temp gauge. I don't know how accurate it is, but it likes to sit just above 215 degrees. It doesn't matter if it is plowing snow in January or making hay in July. It is pretty consistent. Radiator shutters would be nice to help it warm up in the winter when I forget to plug it in though! According to my parts book, they were available for the M, however, I suspect that they were only put on all-fuel M's from the factory. Anyhow, I've never seen any for sale; used or NOS. Now that I keep it in a heated garage it probably doesn't matter.

The port for the probe on an M is on the upper water pipe manifold so it is measuring the coolant just as it is coming out of the top of the motor but before it gets to the radiator. This is probably when it is at its hottest point as the water pipe is bolted right to the head.

It is amazing how well it the cooling system on that old tractor works in spite of not having a water pump. I've never been able to get the gauge to read any hotter than 220. Even then it didn't boil over. That was running a small square bale, up a long hill, on a sunny day in mid-July, while also pulling a one-quarter-loaded bale wagon.

My old G didn't have a working temp gauge, but I never had any overheating issues with it either. Then again, I'm not sure I ever worked it hard enough to risk overheating it.
 

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Yep, I've got a temp gauge. I don't know how accurate it is, but it likes to sit just above 215 degrees. It doesn't matter if it is plowing snow in January or making hay in July. It is pretty consistent. Radiator shutters would be nice to help it warm up in the winter when I forget to plug it in though! According to my parts book, they were available for the M, however, I suspect that they were only put on all-fuel M's from the factory. Anyhow, I've never seen any for sale; used or NOS. Now that I keep it in a heated garage it probably doesn't matter.

The port for the probe on an M is on the upper water pipe manifold so it is measuring the coolant just as it is coming out of the top of the motor but before it gets to the radiator. This is probably when it is at its hottest point as the water pipe is bolted right to the head.

It is amazing how well it the cooling system on that old tractor works in spite of not having a water pump. I've never been able to get the gauge to read any hotter than 220. Even then it didn't boil over. That was running a small square bale, up a long hill, on a sunny day in mid-July, while also pulling a one-quarter-loaded bale wagon.

My old G didn't have a working temp gauge, but I never had any overheating issues with it either. Then again, I'm not sure I ever worked it hard enough to risk overheating it.

yeah, my D has a 14 gallon coolant system. its meant to sit stationary all day at full power in summer heat and do belt work without overheating
:greentractorride:
 
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