Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,502 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We have an above ground pool that is 27' in diameter and 48" deep, about 17k gallons. Our pump died, it is a Hayward 1.5 hp.

Power-Flo LX | Pumps | Above Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

I don't understand the whole "Pump Output (GPM) vs. Total Resistance To Flow (Feet of Head)". What I want is a pump that will turn over the water twice every 24 hours. We plan to run the pump 24 / 7 to see if that helps cut down on the cost of chemical and eases maintenance, I read it will.

I am thinking 1 hp pump in the link above is more than enough just want to make sure since I don't understand the resistance nomenclature.

Could I get away with 3/4 hp if I can find one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,433 Posts
We have an above ground pool that is 27' in diameter and 48" deep, about 17k gallons. Our pump died, it is a Hayward 1.5 hp.

Power-Flo LX | Pumps | Above Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

I don't understand the whole "Pump Output (GPM) vs. Total Resistance To Flow (Feet of Head)". What I want is a pump that will turn over the water twice every 24 hours. We plan to run the pump 24 / 7 to see if that helps cut down on the cost of chemical and eases maintenance, I read it will.

I am thinking 1 hp pump in the link above is more than enough just want to make sure since I don't understand the resistance nomenclature.

Could I get away with 3/4 hp if I can find one?
Head is just how high you can pump the water. I think what you have will work... second opinion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,407 Posts
I know a little about pumps, hydraulics and physics and can share some info.

First off, here is a link to a manual I found with a quick Google search, it looks like some good info:
http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/staritecommTM.pdf

Feet of head for a pump is basically the height the pump can raise a column of water. It is (IIRC) directly related to the pump's output pressure. When related to GPM (gallons per minute), the higher you need to raise the water, the pump will be able to move less water in a minute (lower GPM).

Passing water through anything like an elbow, long length of piping, type of pipe (corrugated vs smooth), filter, skimmer, nozzle, etc will cause resistance to the water movement. This is related back to a feet of head measuring unit, the more restriction, the more effect on the pump's ability to raise the water, or in other words, reducing it's flow rate.

On the table you referenced, you can see that the flow rate (GPM) goes down as the "Total Resistance to Flow (Feet of Head)" goes up. Now in a pool situation, the total amount you really have to "raise" the water is zero feet, because you are just circulating water from the same "tank". But your filter, strainer and everything else you have connected to the pump's output makes the pump "believe" that it is pumping water uphill, that reduces your output.

Depending on your particular system, the final GPM of your pump will vary on what you have connected. And as your filter fills with dirt, leaves and begins to "clog" your flow resistance will increase, again reducing yor GPM even further.

To answer your question of using a smaller pump, if you just wanted to circulate your pool water 2X over 24 hours, you probably could use a 1/4 HP pump, but don't expect to pump it through a filter.

I am no expert, but I think this explanation should make sense.

Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,721 Posts
I think you would be asking for trouble going to a smaller hp .
As for using less chemicals , when we had our 24' round above grd pool , found using ar. solar cover helped . I know where you leave you don't need the hotter water. If no one was going to use the pool , say in 6 hrs , we put the solar cover on . Yes PIA at times but seemed to cut chemical use by at least 1/4 maybe in half. Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
37,449 Posts
I think you would be asking for trouble going to a smaller hp .
As for using less chemicals , when we had our 24' round above grd pool , found using ar. solar cover helped . I know where you leave you don't need the hotter water. If no one was going to use the pool , say in 6 hrs , we put the solar cover on . Yes PIA at times but seemed to cut chemical use by at least 1/4 maybe in half. Just my 2 cents.
I agree. The more the filter plugs the more trouble will be had.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,964 Posts
The way I see it you have about 17,130gal pool. You want to turn it over two times a day so that is 34,260gal. You divide by 24hrs and get the minimum the pump needs to be able to do, or in your case 1,428gal/hour.

To give you an idea I run a Hayward sand filter on my pond. I think I a 1-1/2hp. My base clean filter psi is 8lbs. There is 0.433527501928psi to each foot of head. So that means it is like my pump is pushing the water 18.5ft high. Now the recommendation is to flush the filter once it 8-10psi above the clean pressure. So that is about 40 feet of head in total when the filter needs flushed.

I would not be looking at a smaller pump I would keep it the same or go bigger.

I would agree with etcallhome and say the best thing to lessen the chemical usage it to get a cover. You lose a lot to sun exposure and evaporation. The filter just traps physical solids and doesn't do much for chemical load.

Here is a link to my pond filter thread.

http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10492

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
I would suggest keeping the same size pump and doing as everyone has recommended, get a solar cover. Nothing burns off chemicals as much as direct sunlight. FWIW the hotter it gets ambient the faster chlorine will burn off in a pool. When it is real hot here our chlorine usage almost doubles, although we have solar heaters on ours as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
the right pump

We have an above ground pool that is 27' in diameter and 48" deep, about 17k gallons. Our pump died, it is a Hayward 1.5 hp.

Power-Flo LX | Pumps | Above Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

I don't understand the whole "Pump Output (GPM) vs. Total Resistance To Flow (Feet of Head)". What I want is a pump that will turn over the water twice every 24 hours. We plan to run the pump 24 / 7 to see if that helps cut down on the cost of chemical and eases maintenance, I read it will.

I am thinking 1 hp pump in the link above is more than enough just want to make sure since I don't understand the resistance nomenclature.

Could I get away with 3/4 hp if I can find one?
Go on Haywards site for the pump calculator to reduce the cost of chlorine cover the pool the sun burns it up I don't think running the pump in the nite time will help you I turn mine off
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
37,449 Posts
I think someone already said it but, bigger pump faster turn over, less time running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,502 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I spoke to Hayward and a couple of local pool builders, the 1.5 HP pump is designed to turn the pool over in 6-8 hours. A 1 HP will turn it over every 18 to 20 hours and is what they all recommended if I wanted to turn it on and leave it on.

I did the calculations and the 1 HP will cost me about $80 a month to run 24/7, the 1.5 about $110. We went back with the 1.5 HP to give the option of running it 24/7 or just 8 to 12 hours a day.

The local pool shops are between what people are saying here and I what I have read elsewhere. They said moving water looses its chemicals slower than one standing still but not significantly different. They did say it will cut down on the need for as much algaecide.

My main thing, I want to work the pool less.I hate pools. I put in a skim eeze that seems to be working well at catching extra debris.

For what it is worth, the local pool supply store wanted $475 for the pump, on line was $158. I try to spend my money locally but that is just too much of a difference.
 

·
Corndog Hater
Joined
·
11,687 Posts
I think you would be asking for trouble going to a smaller hp .
As for using less chemicals , when we had our 24' round above grd pool , found using ar. solar cover helped . I know where you leave you don't need the hotter water. If no one was going to use the pool , say in 6 hrs , we put the solar cover on . Yes PIA at times but seemed to cut chemical use by at least 1/4 maybe in half. Just my 2 cents.
I would suggest keeping the same size pump and doing as everyone has recommended, get a solar cover. Nothing burns off chemicals as much as direct sunlight. FWIW the hotter it gets ambient the faster chlorine will burn off in a pool. When it is real hot here our chlorine usage almost doubles, although we have solar heaters on ours as well.
I agree with what has been said about the chemical usage so far. I would like to add my .02.......We are big advocates of buying good chemicals. We have used BioGuard chemicals in both the pool and hot tub from day one. We have never had any of these nightmare stories about funky colored water, etc. Often I ask what chemicals these folks use and I hear "I don't know whatever was cheapest at Walley World". We also hear a lot about how expensive it is to buy chemicals to keep a pool going. We disagree, it seems to us that for the size of our pool (18'x33' oval) that the $ we put out for chemicals is reasonable. Perhaps it's the quality of the chemicals? Now, if I could just get our pool to hold water............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,079 Posts
IMO, a pool is as much a PITA as a wood burning stove, too much maintenance and a liability.
We always swim in a freshwater gravel pit fed by springs or the beach.
Different strokes for different folks though.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,964 Posts
My main thing, I want to work the pool less.I hate pools.
Only way to work a pool less and save money is to get rid of it.

When I was in high school my mom was was looking at homes for us. We found one and she, my sister and I agreed it was the place. Only thing we could not agree on was if the owner should remove the pool before we took possession of the house.

My mom and myself said get rid of it. My sister wanted it and said she would take care of it. We conceded and the pool stayed. I ended taking care of it the first summer because my sister went to live with my father for the summer. At the end of summer I was ready to rip it out.

The next year my sister again said she would take care of it and I think my mom did most of the maintenance. At the end of that year the liner developed a hole that we could not patch. That was the final straw and the pool was removed. The next spring we sold the pool, pump and filter. I then spent the rest of the summer with a 10lb sledge hammer chipping cement to get rid of the rest of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,248 Posts
I agree with what has been said about the chemical usage so far. I would like to add my .02.......We are big advocates of buying good chemicals. We have used BioGuard chemicals in both the pool and hot tub from day one. We have never had any of these nightmare stories about funky colored water, etc. Often I ask what chemicals these folks use and I hear "I don't know whatever was cheapest at Walley World". We also hear a lot about how expensive it is to buy chemicals to keep a pool going. We disagree, it seems to us that for the size of our pool (18'x33' oval) that the $ we put out for chemicals is reasonable. Perhaps it's the quality of the chemicals? Now, if I could just get our pool to hold water............
These are the same chemicals we use. Plus, it helps that a relative owns a pool/spa business that sell BioGuard® products.
We add the recommended chemicals year round and when we open the pool up, it is vacuumed by siphoning and then hook up the pump and filter and add the BioGuard®. No funky colored water, either. Water is tested after a couple days and adjustments made in chemical amounts. Solar blanket is used throughout the summer. Our pool holds water, so far. :good2:
 

·
Corndog Hater
Joined
·
11,687 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
616 Posts
My old man told me years ago, "Son, a boat is a hle in the water you pour money into, and a pool is a hole in the ground you poor money into." That said, he had boats and pools so I assumed he knew. So I never bought a boat.

I do however have a pool, and I've learned not to question it's cost and it's hassle, because if I do, i will surely cry.

Last fall we got a new safety cover that was less pourous than the one before which let some much organic material in once it went on that every spring was a week long effort to remove the algae. Hence the new cover.....only, that little leak in the liner at the bottom that let 90% of the 22,500 gallons seep out before the first snowfall, allowed the accumulation of snow on the cover to grow and grow and melt and freeze and get more snow until the weight on the cover, and lack of support under, allowed the cover to dip down at least 4 feet into the pool, and with a final groan, the straps broke one at a time like dominos until at least half had broken. it pooled the liner out of the slots under the gunnels, and the liner tore in a few spots.

The warranty on the cover doesn't cover storm damage or damage when improperly used, like no water in the pool. But the manufacturer, through my local pool guy has agreed to repair the straps at bare minimum cost. I'm figuring no more than $200. A drop in the bucket compared to the $3k for the new liner. At least it was 10 years old.



Oh yeah, Sometimes it's hard to remember that my mission was to drain the swamp when I am up to my ass in alligators......I almost forgot that this was about pump size. So apart from time, volume, amount of back-pressure from filter, also remember that you don't have gravity on your side with an above ground pool. You are most likely pumping the water up, maybe only a few inches, but still not the same as pumping down into an in ground pool. I also recommend the use of a solar cover to control evaporation.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,721 Posts
I agree on the quality chemicals, we tried Wally World one time . Wife had bought a large amount , well it was given away after the first treatment.
We treated the water with same amount that we had always used, water turned green and every other color. Had to take a water sample to figure out what and how to treat the water. I told my wife never again on cheap chemicals.

My wife wanted to buy a pool a couple of years ago for the grandkids ,, I told her no way , if Mommy and Daddy wanted them to swim they could pay for the pool .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,502 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I agree on the quality chemicals, we tried Wally World one time . Wife had bought a large amount , well it was given away after the first treatment.
We treated the water with same amount that we had always used, water turned green and every other color. Had to take a water sample to figure out what and how to treat the water. I told my wife never again on cheap chemicals.

My wife wanted to buy a pool a couple of years ago for the grandkids ,, I told her no way , if Mommy and Daddy wanted them to swim they could pay for the pool .
The cheap chemicals aren't bad they just require more to get the same concentration as the more expensive chemicals. The box store's chemicals are usually 50% chemical 50% filler where as a good chemical will be upwards of 97% chemical and 3% filler for the same amount.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,721 Posts
The cheap chemicals aren't bad they just require more to get the same concentration as the more expensive chemicals. The box store's chemicals are usually 50% chemical 50% filler where as a good chemical will be upwards of 97% chemical and 3% filler for the same amount.
Got rid of ours about 18 yrs ago. :bigthumb: :bigthumb::bigthumb:
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top